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Your thought on today / about the team so far ?


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#141 nessus

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:42 PM

Larsson is a young defenseman. Lou technically wouldn't be lying if that's who he's referring to, even though that's nearly given.


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#142 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:18 PM

that would be a very bad move unless we can get something decent for Fayne. He's young and could potentially be a solid top 4 dmen for us for awhile. If a kid impress and need room, its obvious that A-train should go he's the most useless for what he's paid. He clearly should have been bought out. Not doing it was a bad move IMO. We can't trade him at this point. I dont feel like losing assets to make room just cause you cant move the older guy who should really go

 

 

I like Fayne, I just think that he'd be the odd man out if it came down to it. One of Urbom, Severson or Merrill should be a top 4 guy eventually.

 

I think A-Train brings enough that while he isn't worth his salary, he's still worth more than being dumped for free. For the time being, he's the only rough, hard hitting type of defenseman that we have. Sal can't really get his nose as dirty anymore with the concussion scares.

 

I guess the Santini pick makes a little more sense when you factor in that he's supposed to be a defenseman that uses his body.


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#143 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:29 PM

OK my puppy whatever you say.


Haha buddy you are a riot I'll give you that
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#144 LucifersDog

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:03 PM

Haha buddy you are a riot I'll give you that

 

Thank you for recognizing that, my puppy


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#145 SterioDesign

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

I like Fayne, I just think that he'd be the odd man out if it came down to it. One of Urbom, Severson or Merrill should be a top 4 guy eventually.

 

I think A-Train brings enough that while he isn't worth his salary, he's still worth more than being dumped for free. For the time being, he's the only rough, hard hitting type of defenseman that we have. Sal can't really get his nose as dirty anymore with the concussion scares.

 

I guess the Santini pick makes a little more sense when you factor in that he's supposed to be a defenseman that uses his body.

 

yeah... but just wait a few year and compare Dauphin and Santini... im very scare of the results. Hopefully our 3rd round puck will pan out that would soften the blow if there's indeed a blow


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#146 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:39 PM

yeah... but just wait a few year and compare Dauphin and Santini... im very scare of the results. Hopefully our 3rd round puck will pan out that would soften the blow if there's indeed a blow

 

True. If Santini turns into a pre-concussion Salvador, it would be a nice piece of the defense for a long time. But if Dauphin becomes a big point getter, it would be unfortunate.


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#147 nessus

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

I initially had a similar reaction to you, SterioDesign. I thought Dauphin would have been the perfect second round pick, especially when I saw that we would not be getting a forward in the first round. Dauphin does seem like he could have been a mid first rounder in a weaker draft class. However, I've grown to like the pick a lot. Santini seems like a really hard working guy, who has already proven to be an extremely important player during his time with the US team. He seems like the type of player that forwards hate playing against, but he definitely could use some development of his offensive game. I've heard reports that Dauphin was really important to his team as well, but it's hard to tell whether he'll turn out to be as big of a points guy as some project. But don't get me wrong, I think he would have been a great guy to have in our system.

 

Another thing that is encouraging is that both Myles Bell and Ryan Kujawinski seem like they could turn into very solid NHL players. Both picks seem boom-or-bust, but Kujawinski supposedly has a lot of talent that needs to be developed. Bell is looking like a potential late bloomer.

 

The real question is whether Santini + Kujawinski is better than Dauphin, and I'm really not sure.

 

I kind of get the feeling that the Devils defense will be home grown for years to come (Larsson, Merrill, Severson, Gelinas, Urbom, Fayne, Scarlett - there's a list of 7 young dmen that are or almost definitely will be solid NHL players, not to mention Santini who will likely be part of that group). Offense will probably have to be addressed mostly through free agency and trades. And of course, goaltending is hopefully worked out if Schneider is here long term. I'm not too worried about the team moving forward...unless players hate coming to/staying in New Jersey, which is looking like the case based on the last couple offseasons. 


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#148 SterioDesign

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:48 PM

my only worry and point is that, at equal "value" in today's NHL im picking a scoring forward any day over a dman.

 

its gonna sound too black and white and simplistic. But you absolutely need goals to win a game. You can have the best defence in the world and not giving up a goal during a game, if you don't score. You'll eventually get in shootouts and if you don't have guys who can put it in you're fvcked. Of course you can get goals randomly from anyone at any given time. But scoring goals on a regular basis is a skill that not all guys have. And even a good defence will get scored on plays they did everything right but the puck still went in for a reason or another. And the only way to correct that is by scoring more goals.

 

i guess thats my whole point, not giving up goals is obviously good. But to be able to score when you need a goal is what makes winning teams. Chicago won this year because of that, if anyone watched  them play a lot this season they'd know, it was frustrating cause even though they were down a goal late in the 3rd, you just know they'd put one in and come back.


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#149 RizzMB30

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:13 PM

I kind of get the feeling that the Devils defense will be home grown for years to come (Larsson, Merrill, Severson, Gelinas, Urbom, Fayne, Scarlett - there's a list of 7 young dmen that are or almost definitely will be solid NHL players, not to mention Santini who will likely be part of that group). Offense will probably have to be addressed mostly through free agency and trades. And of course, goaltending is hopefully worked out if Schneider is here long term. I'm not too worried about the team moving forward...unless players hate coming to/staying in New Jersey, which is looking like the case based on the last couple offseasons. 

 

Not only homegrown, but possible valuable trade bait.  I think we will see guys who might see good time on the NHL roster and then seen traded off.  I can see that happen to Urbom or Gelinas at least.  Then Burlon too is another


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#150 lucifer91

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:03 AM

my only worry and point is that, at equal "value" in today's NHL im picking a scoring forward any day over a dman.

 

its gonna sound too black and white and simplistic. But you absolutely need goals to win a game. You can have the best defence in the world and not giving up a goal during a game, if you don't score. You'll eventually get in shootouts and if you don't have guys who can put it in you're fvcked. Of course you can get goals randomly from anyone at any given time. But scoring goals on a regular basis is a skill that not all guys have. And even a good defence will get scored on plays they did everything right but the puck still went in for a reason or another. And the only way to correct that is by scoring more goals.

 

i guess thats my whole point, not giving up goals is obviously good. But to be able to score when you need a goal is what makes winning teams. Chicago won this year because of that, if anyone watched  them play a lot this season they'd know, it was frustrating cause even though they were down a goal late in the 3rd, you just know they'd put one in and come back.

 

Love the new avatar, that's great, haha


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#151 Pepperkorn

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:33 AM

I think we need more Dave Barr quotes in the press this year.  I didn't even know he played for the Devils.  Seriously - dont you guys always wonder what he's chattering about?  He's always busy


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#152 Pepperkorn

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:42 AM

True. If Santini turns into a pre-concussion Salvador, it would be a nice piece of the defense for a long time. But if Dauphin becomes a big point getter, it would be unfortunate.

NONONONONONONO  Sal was exactly like this pre-concussion.    He was only good POST-concussion playoffs.  ONLY EVER THEN!!!!!  Not EVER was he really reliably GOOD before those stupid playoffs.  In fact he'd choke worst come playoff pre-concussion.

 

how quickly they forget. :argh:


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#153 vadvlfan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

I'll bet there are a few teams that would be interested in Volchie. (Canes/Oilers/Flames) But he's the only d man that tries to hit big!  


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#154 Bibby89

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:25 PM

So does everyone agree that this is the team now? With the exception of possibly moving a defenseman?
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#155 LucifersDog

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:54 PM

So does everyone agree that this is the team now? With the exception of possibly moving a defenseman?

 

 

Maybe in Lou's mind but not mine we need Henrique and Brunner to complete this package.


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#156 Bibby89

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 06:01 PM

Well I'm assuming Henrique is automatic. I don't think Lou takes very long to get him locked up. I'm not so sure about getting Brunner now, even though I hope it happens. Seems like someone would have to be moved prior to that. Preferably through a trade.
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#157 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 06:13 PM

NONONONONONONO  Sal was exactly like this pre-concussion.    He was only good POST-concussion playoffs.  ONLY EVER THEN!!!!!  Not EVER was he really reliably GOOD before those stupid playoffs.  In fact he'd choke worst come playoff pre-concussion.

 

how quickly they forget. :argh:

 

I'm not referring to 2012 playoff Salvador. That was an aberration. I'm referring to pre-concussion Salvador who was a Blues mainstay for 7 years and played very solid defense here for a couple of years. 


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#158 GoArmySports

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:21 PM

Lou was quoted as saying that ownsership change was "imminent" in the interview posted on the Devils website.


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#159 ATLL765

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:32 PM

NONONONONONONO  Sal was exactly like this pre-concussion.    He was only good POST-concussion playoffs.  ONLY EVER THEN!!!!!  Not EVER was he really reliably GOOD before those stupid playoffs.  In fact he'd choke worst come playoff pre-concussion.

 

how quickly they forget. :argh:

What are you talking about? Getting Sal was one of the best trades LL ever made. He traded nothing to get to get him and has been a solid shutdown d-man ever since until last year.


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#160 nessus

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:53 PM

I guess what we're really looking for is that the team is better than it was in 2011-2012, right?

 

On defense, I don't think it's safe to say we are better yet. Losing Tallinder did not make the team better. The defense for the 2011-2012 playoffs was:

 

Salvador-Fayne

Greene-Larsson/Harrold/Tallinder

Volchenkov-Zidlicky

 

We've got Fayne and Larsson aging in a good way, while Sal, Volch, and Zid are aging in a bad way (presumably). Greene is likely getting better, too. The only way to determine whether the defense will actually be better or worse is if a move is made that would allow for a young defenseman to play, in my opinion. My instinct says, though, that Larsson will really step it up this year, and hopefully make up for the Salvador and Volchenkov factor.

 

As things are now, I would say defense will be about the same as it was in 2011-2012.

 

Offense is where we're seeing a lot of changes.

 

Players from 2011-2012 that are likely to start in 2013-2014: Elias, Zajac, Zubrus, Henrique, Josefson, Bernier, Carter.

 

Elias, Zubrus getting older. Henrique, Josefson getting closer to their prime years. Bernier, Carter, Zajac are probably going to be about the same, unless Zajac finally has his breakout year.

 

Lost: Parise, Kovalchuk, Clarkson, Ponikarovsky, Gionta (assuming he's in the AHL this year), Sykora.

 

Gained: Jagr, Loktionov, Clowe, Ryder, Olesz.

 

The question is: are the players gained good enough to account for the players lost?

 

We've said that Clowe is essentially a Clarkson upgrade if all goes well. It is my belief that Olesz is a Ponikarovsky replacement, who has potential turn out to be a lot better, especially under DeBoer again. Loktionov + Ryder softens the blow of losing Parise. I'm not sure they'll account for his effectiveness without the puck, but I think it's fair to expect these guys to exceed Parise's point production, hopefully by a good amount if Loktionov has a strong season. I won't get into a Sykora/Gionta analysis since Sykora became useless by playoff time, and we've got several guys who could clearly take Gionta's spot on the roster.

 

So that leaves Jaromir Jagr vs. Ilya Kovalchuk. You'd be crazy to think that this is a replacement, but don't be surprised if Jagr is able to score a lot of goals this season. But I guess my analysis of the offense ends here, with the conclusion that our offense will probably not be as good as it was 2 seasons ago, unless there's a change in the system.

 

But, I am confident that the addition of Cory Schneider will be enough to offset the loss of offensive talent with the departure of Parise and Kovalchuk. It seemed that there were times where Kovalchuk was able to take games into his own hands and really win a game for the Devils. Now with Schneider, I think that we may have acquired somebody who can save games on his own, like the way Marty used to years ago.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that I'm sure there was a lot of luck associated with that playoff run. We will need to be a better team than that in order to even make it to the conference finals next year. I think the variables lie in whether Schneider gets many starts and the progress of: Josefson, Henrique, Loktionov, and Zajac. But we're looking at a very good team for this season.

 

 

A few other things to keep in mind:

1. Jagr will NOT make Henrique into Giroux. There are no signs from Henrique's past that he has what it takes to be anything like Claude Giroux. Playing with Jagr will be no more beneficial to him than playing with Parise and Kovalchuk, IMO. Actually, I could see him doing more for Josefson or Loktionov than Henrique.

2. Just because I like the team going forward, doesn't mean that I'm ignoring the need for elite talent. As it stands now, Elias is the Devils' best forward. When he begins to decline significantly, we're going to be in a lot of trouble. There is no promising first line talent in the prospect system (yes, including Boucher), and I have absolutely no idea how they are going to address this issue moving forward. Rolling 2 second lines and 2 third lines is scary.

3. I am not going to be so quick to call Rostislav Olesz just another Steve Bernier. Call me overly optimistic, but I have very high hopes for this guy. He could be a fourth liner all season, maybe he won't even play much, but he could also return to the player he was during his first few seasons and become a sold second liner.


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