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Miller & Vanek on the block


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#21 CarterforPresident

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:33 PM

Elias puts up more points at his age then Vanek. Vanek would be nice but he gets hurt easy and is inconsistent
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#22 Daniel

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:35 PM

So the "get a prospect earlier who will be developed sooner" or "get an proven NHL player instead of a pick who might no pan out" arguments that you made yourself awhile ago for the Matteau's case and for this year draft are no good now... interesting.

 

I don't think he's referring to the draft pick as much as the young talent -- Henrique, Gelinas, Merrill, whoever -- you'd have to give up in addition to the pick. 

 

Also, McDavid is not the type of prospect that might not pan out.  You never want to project to have the number 1 pick in two years, but with that kind of talent, you don't want to have the worst case scenario happen.


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#23 SterioDesign

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

I don't think he's referring to the draft pick as much as the young talent -- Henrique, Gelinas, Merrill, whoever -- you'd have to give up in addition to the pick. 

 

Also, McDavid is not the type of prospect that might not pan out.  You never want to project to have the number 1 pick in two years, but with that kind of talent, you don't want to have the worst case scenario happen.

 

which is with the 2013 draft and Mcdavid in 2015 coming, it was a ridiculous move to not give up our 29th pick (Matteau). That was step 1 of maybe setting yourself up for the worst case scenario.


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#24 Daniel

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:50 PM

which is with the 2013 draft and Mcdavid in 2015 coming, it was a ridiculous move to not give up our 29th pick (Matteau). That was step 1 of maybe setting yourself up for the worst case scenario.

 

It's water under the bridge at this point.  There was a certain logic to keeping the pick, which, by the way, appears to have paid off in the short term, since Matteau actually played as an 18 year old.  Plus, there isn't a McDavid type talent to be had in 2014.  (I know you can't project drafts that far in advance, but you can usually tell if there will be superstar or generational talent at the top a few years in advance.  People knew this years top 3 or 4 picks would be good at least a couple of years ago). 


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#25 lazer

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

interesting, imagine tallinder and larsson... ok all the swedes, for miller and vanek.

 

no schnieder and instead maybe nichushkin or domi or horvat or lazar even

 

i was talking about getting schieder 3 years ago, now im not so sure.


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#26 Daniel

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:58 PM

interesting, imagine tallinder and larsson... ok all the swedes, for miller and vanek.

 

no schnieder and instead maybe nichushkin or domi or horvat or lazar even

 

i was talking about getting schieder 3 years ago, now im not so sure.

 

Miller is older than Scheider and appears to be on the decline.  Plus you'd be dealing with Vanek's $7+ million cap hit, and that he is in the last year of his contract.


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#27 Zubie#8

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

Too much money for someone made from glass.


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#28 Triumph

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

So the "get a prospect earlier who will be developed sooner" or "get an proven NHL player instead of a pick who might no pan out" arguments that you made yourself awhile ago for the Matteau's case and for this year draft are no good now... interesting.

 

Sigh.  Okay, Riddler.  Let's take this one step at a time.

 

Buffalo has had 2 1st round picks in each of the last 2 drafts.  If I were Buffalo, I'd want a 2015 pick - my future looks plenty bright without another 2014, and I can take the shot at 2015 hoping to land McDavid.  In addition, my team should hopefully be coming around by 2015, such that I could trade my own or that 2015 pick in 2015 for additional talent to upgrade the team when the time comes (in 2014-15).  Buffalo has Girgensons, Grigorenko, Ristolainen, Zadorov, and Armia as players out of the NHL who (some of them at least) figure to be decent NHLers  This is the opposite scenario of the Devils, who had almost no one at forward who they could think that about.

 

Two, a team trading a draft pick is much different than giving one up as a result of a fine from the NHL, because NJ was going to have to choose one year to give it up.  A team doesn't have to trade a 1st round draft pick.  But you're right that teams don't often trade draft picks for 2 years in advance - I suspect part of it is the inequality of uncertainty.  The team giving up the pick usually needs good compensation to defray the risk of giving up a potential top 5 pick, and the team getting the pick can't give up too much for what could be a lower 20s 1st round pick.  After all, the Devils made a trade in 1989 that got them a 1st round pick in 1991, paid off pretty handsomely - I think that could be why you don't see much of that anymore.


Edited by Triumph, 09 July 2013 - 01:15 PM.

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#29 lazer

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:04 PM

right and miller wouldnt back up brodeur either, well this was fun.


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#30 cgb6397

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

this summer if they'd be willing to do Henrique + Urbom + 3rd conditional (1st if he re-sign) I'd fvcking do it in a second and never look back. Even throw Tedenby in the mix if you have to if thats not enough lol or if they'd want Boucher i'd look into it too. Vanek is a fvcking bomb.
 
lets say next season.
 
 
Vanek - Zajac - Kovalchuk
Clowe - Elias - Ryder
Matteau - Loktionov - Zubrus
Olesz - Josefson - Carter
 
Thats some scary sh!t.


No doubt, but if Boucher is a part there's no way I do it. He has scoring ability on par with Stamkos, no way I'm giving that up before he even sniffs the NHL
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#31 D88

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:59 AM

Since Vaneks caphit this year would not fit to our team it's a nice dream like SD said.

But imagine for just 10 seconds what a Line of LW Vanek and RW Kovy could do to the Rags and Pens and Philly :dizzy:


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#32 SterioDesign

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:11 AM

No doubt, but if Boucher is a part there's no way I do it. He has scoring ability on par with Stamkos, no way I'm giving that up before he even sniffs the NHL

 

i wouldnt say he's on par with Stamkos, I get the record thing but Steven put up two seasons of 92 and 105 pts as a 16/17 years old rookie while Boucher had one similar season than Stamkos but as a 18/19 years old... still pretty good but there's a huge difference there. Stamkos jumped in the NHL right away and scored 20+ goals... imagine 2 more years in the Juniors what he would have done.

 

But i get your point though he still has great upsides if he can develop in the NHL and he's our only scoring prospect pretty much.


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#33 EdgeControl

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:12 AM

if for some strange reason vanek is still a sabre at the midway point, and we are in a playoff hunt but need a bit more scoring, I'd mortgage some of our future for him


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#34 Devs4LIFE

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:27 PM

I'd go for Heatley over Vanek, we wouldn't have to give up as much to get him (Josefson/Urbom) but we'd have to dump more cap to get him as well (Salvador probably). I think it'd be worth it though, he's only got a year left so it's not a long term salary burden and he'd round oput our top 6 real nice being reunited with Kovalchuk.

 

Edit: We'd also have to sign Henrique for real cheap this season, about 2 million.

 

 

Heatley-Henrique-Kovalchuk

Elias-Zajac-Ryder

Clowe-Loktionov-Zubrus

Carter-Gionta-Bernier

 

Greene-Larsson

Gelinas-Fayne

Volchenkov-Harrold

Merril


Edited by Devs4LIFE, 10 July 2013 - 01:28 PM.

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