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Kovalchuk Retired Effective Immediately?


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#541 ATLL765

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:45 AM

sure if you look at some 5 on 5 corsi stats maybe you can convince yourself that.

 

looking at our shootout, remembering all the games we lost by one goal and a streak of missing the playoffs since he left....

 

no we're not better off. buddy was scoring big goals for us and was drawing opposite players opening the play for the other guys and he's fast. it's all immensely missing now on this team

No offense, but sometimes I wonder why you're not a Chicago or Pittsburgh fan. You constantly bemoan the team's lack of speed and flashy offense, but that's not the kind of game this team plays. The team and PDB's system negates speed and is built on quality 5v5 play where our offense comes from zone time, which is gained by forechecking hard and good play along the boards. These are both things Kovy wasn't particularly good at.

It just seems to me that sometimes you're complaining about things that epitomize who this team is. That just doesn't make sense to me.


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#542 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:20 PM

sure if you look at some 5 on 5 corsi stats maybe you can convince yourself that.

 

looking at our shootout, remembering all the games we lost by one goal and a streak of missing the playoffs since he left....

 

no we're not better off. buddy was scoring big goals for us and was drawing opposite players opening the play for the other guys and he's fast. it's all immensely missing now on this team

 

Jesus Christ, how many walls have people put their fists through walls reading yours and Mike Brown's posts in the past year?

 

"Streak" of missing the playoffs?  fvcking really?  He was here in 2013 when they missed the playoffs, remember?  So they missed the playoffs once since he left...that's now a "streak"?!  And yeah, Kovy was sure awesome in 2013 (no, he wasn't).  And awesome again in 2014, when he wasn't exactly lighting it up in the KHL.  Stop living in 2012 and stop blowing Kovy up to be more than he was.    


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 13 July 2014 - 05:21 PM.

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#543 njdevsftw

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:44 PM

 stop blowing Kovy up to be more than he was.    

 

Kovy was an offensive juggernaught and an exciting player to watch. He was great on the PK and fantastic in the shootout. He pretty much carried this team (on his injured back) to the finals in 11/12. He almost single-handedly got us into the playoffs in 10/11 as well after the MacLean travesty. We could very much use a bit of that. Kovy wasn't awesome in 12/13, sure, can you name a Devil who was?


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#544 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:10 PM

Kovy was an offensive juggernaught and an exciting player to watch. He was great on the PK and fantastic in the shootout. He pretty much carried this team (on his injured back) to the finals in 11/12. He almost single-handedly got us into the playoffs in 10/11 as well after the MacLean travesty. We could very much use a bit of that. Kovy wasn't awesome in 12/13, sure, can you name a Devil who was?

 

Kovy needed an insane amount of ice time for a forward to get his numbers in 2012.  Don't get me wrong, I think his game came a long way at that point...it was obvious when he first became a Devil that there were a lot of holes in his game that saw improvement that season.  But I don't think he's that player anymore, and I think he knew it too when he retired from the NHL.     

 

The Devils didn't "almost" make the playoffs in 10-11 (they never got closer than six points), and a lot of players got hot in the second half for a while.  That second half was entertaining and they made things a little interesting, but let's face it, that team was playing with absolutely no pressure on it when they came to life...they also weren't nearly as bad as that first half suggested, so it made sense that things evened out for them.     


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#545 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:12 PM

Kovalchuk was fun to watch, was an absolute sniper, and would be without a doubt enemy #1 on this board in a few seasons if he didn't bolt to the KHL. His cap and seemingly diminishing talent would have Stereo and MikeBrown suicidal
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#546 NJDevs4978

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:40 PM

Yeah people forget 2012 Kovalchuk left before he actually left.  The 2013/14 version of Kovalchuk wasn't missed.


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#547 maxpower

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:35 PM

Kovy needed an insane amount of ice time for a forward to get his numbers in 2012.  Don't get me wrong, I think his game came a long way at that point...it was obvious when he first became a Devil that there were a lot of holes in his game that saw improvement that season.  But I don't think he's that player anymore, and I think he knew it too when he retired from the NHL.     

 

The Devils didn't "almost" make the playoffs in 10-11 (they never got closer than six points), and a lot of players got hot in the second half for a while.  That second half was entertaining and they made things a little interesting, but let's face it, that team was playing with absolutely no pressure on it when they came to life...they also weren't nearly as bad as that first half suggested, so it made sense that things evened out for them.     

 

There's diminishing returns on minutes.   I wouldn't hold the minutes against him.   I would hold 2013 against him, though.


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#548 RizzMB30

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:14 AM

THE HORSE IS DEAD DAMMIT!!! LEAVE IT ALONE PLEASE!!! I JUST WANT TO GIVE IT A PROPER BURIAL!


Kovy is a quitter and will forever be remembered as such.  Say whatever you want about how good he WAS, but HE QUIT ON US.  Q-U-I-T   I GUESS I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT.   :blahblah: :horse:


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#549 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:40 AM

THE HORSE IS DEAD DAMMIT!!! LEAVE IT ALONE PLEASE!!! I JUST WANT TO GIVE IT A PROPER BURIAL!


Kovy is a quitter and will forever be remembered as such.  Say whatever you want about how good he WAS, but HE QUIT ON US.  Q-U-I-T   I GUESS I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT.   :blahblah: :horse:

 

I agree, Kovy quitting, retiring, whatever makes a lot of things moot, but there are some people who think Kovy would've kept on being 2012 Kovy had he stuck around (when there's considerable evidence to the contrary), and such fans insist on making it sound like all would be fine if he was still here.  That's what's aggravating. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#550 EdgeControl

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

like many have posted...I still believe that Kovy was breaking down and took an opportunity to help himself AND THE TEAMS FUTURE. it was a little sudden as far as us fans know, but this was BY FAR the best scenario to get out from that boat anchor of a contract. one year's draft pick, vs 8 years?? of 6+ mil dead money???!! no brainer

 

yes we lose out in the first 3 years, he would have scored on the PP and i'm convinced he would have got us a few SO wins, which may or may not have put us in.  would we have still signed jagr??  he was exciting to watch and Im glad we had him for a few, I don't see him as an evil villain. and its best he's gone


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#551 NJDevs4978

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:50 AM

This is where I differ from the 'wishful thinking', I don't think Kovy left to help us at all - though it may work out that way - or that this was planned beforehand when he signed the contract.  Or at least not that he was going to leave THIS soon, since there was no such thing as cap recapture when he signed the 15-year deal.  Some of you are too willing to believe Kovy is intentionally altruistic, he was playing footsie with the KHL for years and when he finally got exposed to it during the lockout he didn't want to leave.  

 

I think the only way he might have helped us was he clearly wanted to leave coming out of the lockout, but personally I think (and this'll never be proved) that he and Lou came to an agreement...you play the lockout season for us and don't announce you're leaving until after FA - which would have put us over a barrel bargaining wise with FA's - and I won't toll the contract when you leave.  It sure took him long enough to get back after the lockout ended to not think something was going on there.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 14 July 2014 - 08:53 AM.

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#552 Triumph

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:01 PM

I don't think Kovalchuk retired when he did to help out with free agency, he did so because that's when the hockey world's eyes were not on anything.  If the KHL wanted to make a splash, they had to wait until the Cup Finals and everything major to do with FA are over.

 

And yeah the delusion over the shootout continues - yeah, the Devils win two or three shootouts probably with Kovalchuk.  They don't have Jagr, though, and Jagr is a better player than Kovalchuk, which makes up for all that.


Edited by Triumph, 14 July 2014 - 01:04 PM.

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#553 devilsrule33

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:51 PM

I don't think Kovalchuk retired when he did to help out with free agency, he did so because that's when the hockey world's eyes were not on anything.  If the KHL wanted to make a splash, they had to wait until the Cup Finals and everything major to do with FA are over.

 

And yeah the delusion over the shootout continues - yeah, the Devils win two or three shootouts probably with Kovalchuk.  They don't have Jagr, though, and Jagr is a better player than Kovalchuk, which makes up for all that.

 

I think that explanation is equal or less plausible as people who think Lou asked him to keep it quiet until after the initial free agency blitz. Lou had to spend quite a bit of time assuring free agents that the Devils were going to be okay financially. Add in Kovy leaving, and it might have been disastrous.  

 

Kovalchuk said in a few interviews as well that he did not shock Lou with this. This is something that they had discussed for quite a bit of time (started when the lockout ended and continued after the season). No one will talk about it in the near future, but would it be so shocking that Lou asked him to wait until the date he officially announced it?


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#554 DevsMan84

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:15 PM

Honestly I could care less about Kovy now.  It's done and over with and honestly at this point I really do not miss him anymore.


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#555 2ELIAS6

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:47 PM

THE HORSE IS DEAD DAMMIT!!! LEAVE IT ALONE PLEASE!!! I JUST WANT TO GIVE IT A PROPER BURIAL!
Kovy is a quitter and will forever be remembered as such.  Say whatever you want about how good he WAS, but HE QUIT ON US.  Q-U-I-T   I GUESS I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT.   :blahblah: :horse:

wait what did he do?
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#556 njdevsftw

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:30 PM

I don't get why people are emphatically posting in here telling everyone else to "stop talking about it". It's a forum, people discuss things. If you don't like it, don't read this particular thread.


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#557 Triumph

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:56 PM

I think that explanation is equal or less plausible as people who think Lou asked him to keep it quiet until after the initial free agency blitz. Lou had to spend quite a bit of time assuring free agents that the Devils were going to be okay financially. Add in Kovy leaving, and it might have been disastrous.  

 

Kovalchuk said in a few interviews as well that he did not shock Lou with this. This is something that they had discussed for quite a bit of time (started when the lockout ended and continued after the season). No one will talk about it in the near future, but would it be so shocking that Lou asked him to wait until the date he officially announced it?

 

I did forget about the financial issues, but again, the KHL likes its press, and it's not going to get the whole hockey world in July 1, or during the Cup Finals, etc.  I guess we'll never know.


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#558 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:08 AM

No offense, but sometimes I wonder why you're not a Chicago or Pittsburgh fan. You constantly bemoan the team's lack of speed and flashy offense, but that's not the kind of game this team plays. The team and PDB's system negates speed and is built on quality 5v5 play where our offense comes from zone time, which is gained by forechecking hard and good play along the boards. These are both things Kovy wasn't particularly good at.

It just seems to me that sometimes you're complaining about things that epitomize who this team is. That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Listen, with my post i was not "complaining" i was pointing out how ridiculous some posters are now bashing Kovalchuk like he was a fvcking terrible player and that he was not useful at all. He was helping us a LOT and now people are butthurt and will try to convince themselves that he was terrible, which is not true at all.

 

But the same people will never say a bad thing about Zajac who can barely score 20 goals as a first line center. The double standard on this board is ridic. So many freagin homers / koolaid drinkers here its unreal.


Edited by SterioDesign, 15 July 2014 - 07:10 AM.

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#559 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:12 AM

Jesus Christ, how many walls have people put their fists through walls reading yours and Mike Brown's posts in the past year?

 

"Streak" of missing the playoffs?  fvcking really?  He was here in 2013 when they missed the playoffs, remember?  So they missed the playoffs once since he left...that's now a "streak"?!  And yeah, Kovy was sure awesome in 2013 (no, he wasn't).  And awesome again in 2014, when he wasn't exactly lighting it up in the KHL.  Stop living in 2012 and stop blowing Kovy up to be more than he was.    

 

Yeah Parise was missing and EVERYONE sucked that year. Who caried the team almost back in the playoffs in the 2nd half? who? yeah thats right.

 

back then we we're praising the guy. Now that he's gone, its like he was a fvcking useless bum?

 

Even if he was not to your "level of awesome" he was better than any other player on the team, so acting as if he's not useful ? give me a break


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#560 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:37 AM

Listen, with my post i was not "complaining" i was pointing out how ridiculous some posters are now bashing Kovalchuk like he was a fvcking terrible player and that he was not useful at all. He was helping us a LOT and now people are butthurt and will try to convince themselves that he was terrible, which is not true at all.

 

But the same people will never say a bad thing about Zajac who can barely score 20 goals as a first line center. The double standard on this board is ridic. So many freagin homers / koolaid drinkers here its unreal.

 

 

Yeah Parise was missing and EVERYONE sucked that year. Who caried the team almost back in the playoffs in the 2nd half? who? yeah thats right.

 

back then we we're praising the guy. Now that he's gone, its like he was a fvcking useless bum?

 

Even if he was not to your "level of awesome" he was better than any other player on the team, so acting as if he's not useful ? give me a break

 

 

No one is saying he was terrible, but guys like Tri are pointing out that underneath some of the eye-friendly numbers, there were some issues.  He put up respectable numbers when he first got here after the trade, but he didn't seem terribly comfortable (I thought it became pretty obvious that he was never properly coached before he got to NJ, which is a shame).  2010-11 was obviously rough for him initially, but Jacques Lemaire was able to get him to start cleaning up the weaker points of his game, and he began to improve.  You're an idiot if you think Kovy "almost carried the team to the playoffs" in 2011...he was a key figure in making the second half fun to watch for sure, but like I said, that team was still out of it for most of that run, and they never pulled to within more than six points of the final berth, and he was just as much of a reason as to why the team did zilch in the first half as he was a big reason they played so much better in the second half. 

 

2011-12 saw the pinnacle of Kovy's steady improvement and refinement, and he did a lot of things well that year, but he was also playing a lot of minutes...more than would be ideal for a guy in his 30s.  Would that wear him down over time if he was expected to keep playing that many minutes per game?  One thing that did drop a bit once he became a Devils was his shooting%...Tri has some solid theories about why that happened, one of which had to do with the fact that playing for a team that was usually not relevant in the Thrashers allowed him to face more backup goalies, and it seemed like the franchise didn't mind the fact that, as a Thrasher, Kovy was a guy who could score and put up nice "glamour" numbers, but clearly had a lot of warts in his game...warts that both the Devils and, to his credit, Kovy tried to work on. 

 

As we know, Kovy got hurt in the 2012 playoffs, and I think that probably affected him physically and mentally.  Couple that with playing in the SKA, where he's treated like a hero initially (don't know if that still holds now), doesn't have to play in nearly as many games (52 regular season) but will still get paid handsomely, and will get to play in his home country (which apparently was important to him), I get why he left. 

 

Anyway, long and short of it, I never he said he was crap while he was here, and I'm definitely not rewriting history as to what he contributed here.  I think he had a rough beginning, played well in the second half of 2011 and the following season, didn't play particularly well in 2013 (possibly because his heart wasn't in being a Devil anymore, possibly because he's beginning to decline), and was much better in SKA in 2013 than in 2014.  Overall as a Devil I think he was pretty good, occasionally terrific, but like others and I have noted, I don't think the Kovy of 2012 is ever coming back, NHL or KHL, and even that 2012 version still had holes in his game, though, again to his credit, he worked very hard and allowed himself to be coached into becoming a more complete player.

 

I don't think the Devils are better off without him because of his past.  I think they're better off without him because of his future, which I don't think is all that bright.     


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 15 July 2014 - 07:39 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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