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#61 MadDog2020

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:25 PM

You know that series on NHL Network, 'A Day That Changed The Game'?. Well... Today may have been one.

Speaking of the NHL Network, nice timing for a summer hiatus. Can't put the TSN feed on for something dramatic like this instead of rerunning old Winter Classics?

Meh, that's fine. I don't need to listen to reports from the Canadian media on this. I don't care what outsiders have to say about it really. I turned off SNY after the Mets Classics game ended and put Seinfeld on because I didn't feel like listening to their take. The NY media has no idea how to cover the Devils without bias. Waste of time.

Edited by MadDog2020, 11 July 2013 - 11:25 PM.

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#62 mouse

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:25 PM

The points about the decline are BS.   The league is booming, it's just you're in a forum full of NA who follow other sports which have no competition.

 

There is nothing they can do about this.   They have a wide player pool and someone else has been able to tap in on this in the model of soccer, with stupid money and no intention of running a business.

 

The only way the NHL has reaped what they sow is in their transfer dealings where they lowball everyone.   So there is zero built-in sympathy.   And sooner or later player pool countries in Europe will all have KHL franchises in their countries.

I'd like to see transfer fees, like in soccer. While that might lead to the same system of haves and have nots that the North American leagues (even baseball, at least when compared to soccer) have mostly managed to avoid, it would at least feel better now. Though I guess that would wreak havoc on the salary cap. Still, however you feel about JVB, he put himself in trouble to sign Kovalchuk, and was probably counting on Kovalchuk generating some revenue to help him with that (jersey sales, butts in seats, a playoff run), and he deserves to recoup some of that loss. 


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#63 95Crash

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:28 PM

Even though this is entirely Kovalchuk 's decision, I can't help but be pissed again about that dumb lockout.

 

At the time, some were saying that by letting it go on so long, the league was taking a chance that the fans would get used to there being no hockey and would find something else to do with their time -- even when the game came back.

 

It turns out that maybe it was the players, too, who found something else to do -- or in Kovy's case, somewhere else that they'd rather be.


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#64 maxpower

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:29 PM

I'd like to see transfer fees, like in soccer. While that might lead to the same system of haves and have nots that the North American leagues (even baseball, at least when compared to soccer) have mostly managed to avoid, it would at least feel better now. Though I guess that would wreak havoc on the salary cap. Still, however you feel about JVB, he put himself in trouble to sign Kovalchuk, and was probably counting on Kovalchuk generating some revenue to help him with that (jersey sales, butts in seats, a playoff run), and he deserves to recoup some of that loss. 

 

Why would the NHL want a fair transfer system?   They import far more than they export.   Most exports aren't under contract.

 

And on that topic there were rumors that SKA did want to purchase Kovalchuk.   But I'm not sure that's even possible or if it was, the Devils would see very much of that money


Edited by maxpower, 11 July 2013 - 11:37 PM.

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#65 mouse

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:41 PM

Why would the NHL want a fair transfer system?   They import far more than they export.   Most exports aren't under contract.

 

And on that topic there were rumors that SKA did want to purchase Kovalchuk.   But I'm not sure that's even possible or if it was, the Devils would see very much of that money

I'm not saying it would completely benefit the NHL, I just prefer a fair, sensible system rather than getting get punched completely by surprise because there's no precedent and no rules.


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#66 devilsfan26

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:45 PM

 

Posted this on the "news" thread....but I think it goes better here......

The fact that we didn't know, doesn't mean management didn't know about this.

 

This offseason we traded for one of the top goalies on the league and signed a couple of the best available free agents. This is what made you feel so optimistic, but these very same unusual (for us) signings and trades are (to me) a sign that LL knew what Kovalchuk would do long ago. Also, you have to think that at least Ryder ended up coming here partly because of #17. In Schneider's case...guess what, in 2 years you just became the face of the franchise.

 

He also announced it just as our cap space was small and with Henrique and Josefson still un-extended.

 

It's not his fault we lose next year's pick. First it'd be Bettman's fault for imposing that penalty in the first place, then also Lou's fault for not giving up that 29th pick.

 

It's also not his fault Parise didn't sign here. We had the cap space, the team, and the run to the Cup; he simply wanted to go play in his hometown with his boyfriend.

 

This absolutely sucks, and I understand that many feel betrayed, but I do think this was known by management before the season, before free agency...
 

I'm going to go Moneyball here and say you can't straight up replace Kovalchuk and his minutes and production, but you can build a winning team with the right pieces. This definitively got my mood down, but I'm not ready to say this is franchise ending as some have said. Let's see what happens in the next week...better yet, let's see what happens on the ice.

 

We can't go crazy and really give everything to get Vanek or something like that. PDB should know what he needs to make it happen. We won 3 Cups without a 50 goal scorer and Kovalchuk won 0 while scoring 50 goals.

 

If we add a couple guys that are improvements over what we currently have we'll be ok (and now we have the cap space to do so). We have better goaltending, Clowe is an improvement over Clarkson (imo), we can extend Henrique and hopefully he'll bounce back from his sophomore wall, Ryder will do his thing....

 

Just not ready to write this season off yet.

 

Good guess, and I know for a fact that you are 100% correct that management knew about this for a while.  I know this doesn't sound credible because to you people, I'm just some guy on the internet, but I've been on this forum for over a decade now and I've never been one to just make stuff up, but a coworker of mine is taking a class in Boston this week and one guy in his class happens to be a scout for the Canucks.  They were in the class when the news broke today and the Vancouver scout said it was "hush-hush insider knowledge" that Kovalchuk decided this move last month, and that all league executives knew about it, obviously including Lou Lamoriello. 

Also a little interesting tidbit this guy dropped is that he was in the room when the Schneider deal was completed, it happened at 2:45 AM the night before the draft.

And yeah, regardless of how people want to justify their selfish hatred of Parise, Kovalchuk's contract had nothing to do with it.  Zach even said the Devils made a comparable offer, but he just wanted to go home and be teammates with his buddy.  Also it's funny how many people on here blast Parise for wanting to play with Suter, and even Scott Niedermayer for wanting to play with his brother, but nobody throws the same criticisms toward Clowe and Ryder.

 

 

Also I've convinced myself this penalty will be removed.

Because believe me: if it isn't, I won't spend another penny on this second rate joke of a league.

I thought this at first too, but now that I think about it, I highly doubt we get to keep that first round pick.  The penalty wasn't for Kovalchuk's current contract, it was for the previous one that was REJECTED!  They punished us for a contract that they didn't even allow to go into effect in the first place, so him leaving during the current contract unfortunately has no bearing on that asinine punishment.


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"Swim against the tide, don't follow the group, stay away from the majority, seek out the fresh and new, stay away from the poseurs, and don't be a barnacle. Be original, be different, be passionate, be selfless and be free. Be a hockey fan."
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#67 sundstrom

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:55 PM

i don't think any executives outside of NJ really knew this was coming. i can tell you for a fact that none of his teammates did up until today's announcement.


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#68 CarpathianForest

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:57 PM

i don't think any executives outside of NJ really knew this was coming. i can tell you for a fact that none of his teammates did up until today's announcement.

 

Marty was golfing when he got the message.


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#69 devilsfan26

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:10 AM

i don't think any executives outside of NJ really knew this was coming. i can tell you for a fact that none of his teammates did up until today's announcement.

How do you know this for a fact?  I really doubt this Canucks scout is making it up.  Also, even if the players didn't know, it's one thing for the team execs to know and quite another for the players to know.  If word spread to the players it would have a much greater chance of leaking, especially considering how much time elapsed between the time Kovalchuk made up his mind and today.


Edited by devilsfan26, 12 July 2013 - 12:14 AM.

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"Swim against the tide, don't follow the group, stay away from the majority, seek out the fresh and new, stay away from the poseurs, and don't be a barnacle. Be original, be different, be passionate, be selfless and be free. Be a hockey fan."
--John Buccigross

#70 Triumph

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:33 AM

How do you know this for a fact?  I really doubt this Canucks scout is making it up.  Also, even if the players didn't know, it's one thing for the team execs to know and quite another for the players to know.  If word spread to the players it would have a much greater chance of leaking, especially considering how much time elapsed between the time Kovalchuk made up his mind and today.

 

You are getting this information third-hand and ex post facto.  It sounds like utter garbage.


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#71 devilsfan26

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:44 AM

You are getting this information third-hand and ex post facto.  It sounds like utter garbage.

Hey like I said I know it may not sound credible and it's always easy to call bullsh!t whenever someone says they have inside info, but I have known the guy who told me this story for a long time and have no reason to doubt him.  Also when you put it together with cubanjd's speculation it does make sense.

 

Also, just semantics but wouldn't I be getting the information second-hand and not third-hand?  Scout --> coworker --> me.  Unless I'm mistaken, the people getting it third-hand are the people I tell.


Edited by devilsfan26, 12 July 2013 - 12:47 AM.

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"Swim against the tide, don't follow the group, stay away from the majority, seek out the fresh and new, stay away from the poseurs, and don't be a barnacle. Be original, be different, be passionate, be selfless and be free. Be a hockey fan."
--John Buccigross

#72 Triumph

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:57 AM

Hey like I said I know it may not sound credible and it's always easy to call bullsh!t whenever someone says they have inside info, but I have known the guy who told me this story for a long time and have no reason to doubt him.  Also when you put it together with cubanjd's speculation it does make sense.

 

Also, just semantics but wouldn't I be getting the information second-hand and not third-hand?  Scout --> coworker --> me.  Unless I'm mistaken, the people getting it third-hand are the people I tell.

 

 

No, because it goes Exec who tells his scouts everything -> scout who keeps his mouth shut along with all other scouts, not a word of this leaks to anyone in the media -> coworker -> you.


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#73 devilsfan26

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:01 AM

No, because it goes Exec who tells his scouts everything -> scout who keeps his mouth shut along with all other scouts, not a word of this leaks to anyone in the media -> coworker -> you.

Fair enough, but I've been posting here for ten years and can you think of one time where I just made up some BS story?  The only part of this where it could be untrue is if the guy either isn't actually a scout, or maybe he is a scout but didn't actually have any inside knowledge.  Why someone would make up either of those things doesn't make sense to me though so until I find a reason to believe otherwise I'll believe it.  You don't think it's feasible that team execs hide info from the media until it's necessary for it to be announced?


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"Swim against the tide, don't follow the group, stay away from the majority, seek out the fresh and new, stay away from the poseurs, and don't be a barnacle. Be original, be different, be passionate, be selfless and be free. Be a hockey fan."
--John Buccigross

#74 Triumph

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:05 AM

Fair enough, but I've been posting here for ten years and can you think of one time where I just made up some BS story?  The only part of this where it could be untrue is if the guy either isn't actually a scout, or maybe he is a scout but didn't actually have any inside knowledge.  Why someone would make up either of those things doesn't make sense to me though so until I find a reason to believe otherwise I'll believe it.  You don't think it's feasible that team execs hide info from the media until it's necessary for it to be announced?

 

I'm not doubting you at all, I'm doubting your coworker.  Indeed, if you were lying, you'd make up a much more believable source than 'my coworker knows a scout'.  You'd cut the coworker out and say that you knew the guy.

 

I do believe that's feasible and indeed, sundstrom can tell you I thought it was goofy all these signings NJ was doing, whether they were going to look into trading Kovalchuk because the money didn't seem to make sense.  I just don't see why (or how) it would've escaped the Devils' organization. 


Edited by Triumph, 12 July 2013 - 01:06 AM.

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#75 maxpower

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:05 AM

I think Lou had a decent idea.    I don't think this was "out there" per se, though.   Someone would leak it because it's a groundbreaking story, not to mention you have a few sources who like to rustle JVB's sh!t for whatever reason.   And what better way than "Owner too broke to play star player, so star player QUITS."   Especially a few weeks back when they hadn't thrown money around and it would hold up to scrutiny, and also potentially harm the team.


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#76 devilsfan26

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:15 AM

I'm not doubting you at all, I'm doubting your coworker.  Indeed, if you were lying, you'd make up a much more believable source than 'my coworker knows a scout'.  You'd cut the coworker out and say that you knew the guy.

 

I do believe that's feasible and indeed, sundstrom can tell you I thought it was goofy all these signings NJ was doing, whether they were going to look into trading Kovalchuk because the money didn't seem to make sense.  I just don't see why (or how) it would've escaped the Devils' organization. 

Well since you don't know my coworker I can certainly see how he is the easy one to be skeptical of, but I can attest that he is as reliable and honest as they come so to me the only part where this thing could be nonsense is from the scout.  Since he is from within the Canucks organization, my guess is that it must have come up at some point in the Schneider trade talks, which he did say he was in the room for.  He also said that "all league execs" knew about it, but I don't really know why everyone else would need to know about it, but whatever it seems feasible to me that at least the Vancouver guys who were present for the Schneider trade might have gotten word about it while spending hours negotiating the deal.


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"Swim against the tide, don't follow the group, stay away from the majority, seek out the fresh and new, stay away from the poseurs, and don't be a barnacle. Be original, be different, be passionate, be selfless and be free. Be a hockey fan."
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#77 CarpathianForest

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:20 AM

I think Lou had a decent idea.    I don't think this was "out there" per se, though.   Someone would leak it because it's a groundbreaking story, not to mention you have a few sources who like to rustle JVB's sh!t for whatever reason.   And what better way than "Owner too broke to play star player, so star player QUITS."   Especially a few weeks back when they hadn't thrown money around and it would hold up to scrutiny, and also potentially harm the team.

 

This is the sh!t I'm sick of hearing. "Oh the Devils are going to be moved to Quebec, no one wants to play there, they don't have any fans, they have attendance issues, their owner is bankrupt." Sick of it.


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#78 maxpower

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:24 AM

This is the sh!t I'm sick of hearing. "Oh the Devils are going to be moved to Quebec, no one wants to play there, they don't have any fans, they have attendance issues, their owner is bankrupt." Sick of it.

 

Well, get ready for some more.   But if this had leaked early, man it would have been a sh!tstorm considering the news that was going around at the time.


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#79 njdevsftw

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:20 AM

Kovy could only have done this if he knew the Devils would agree to let him go without making his "new life" difficult. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that LL has known about this for some time. That doesn't mean he likes it ofcourse.. 


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#80 SMantzas

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:24 AM

Honestly, what the hell is stopping Ovechkin or Malkin from doing the same thing now? This is truly a game-changing precedent that has been set here.


I highly doubt Pittsburgh and Washington would ever let Malkin/Ovi do thist. The term of their contracts aren't nearly as bad as Kovy's
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