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Lou: Change of Ownership Imminent


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#41 LucifersDog

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:31 AM

Agreed, time for change and a reorganization...I just wanted to point out that hating the guy who took the franchise to a another level was a bit surprising.

I'm not saying you...just some posts I've seen lately.

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Not trying to argue but what increased level did Vanderbeek take the devils hockey team to?

 

I don't think they won a cup with him as owner?

I think they missed the playoffs 2 years he was owner?

 

I think they bounced out in round one with him as owner?

 

He gets credit for not letting the team leave NJ. I never thought the team was going to leave NJ, that was all posturing.

 

We did get the ROCK with him as owner but as much credit or more goes to the City of Newark.

 

When an arena needs both an NBA and NHL to be financially sound how did he let the Nets go to Brooklyn on his watch?

 

 

Just saying so it isn't hate  just the reality that he was just OK.

 

He was a big and I assume still is a Devils fan.

 

He had money and saw a way to make more money but his world crumbled.


Edited by LucifersDog, 25 July 2013 - 08:35 AM.

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#42 DevsMan84

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:56 AM

Not trying to argue but what increased level did Vanderbeek take the devils hockey team to?

 

I don't think they won a cup with him as owner?

I think they missed the playoffs 2 years he was owner?

 

I think they bounced out in round one with him as owner?

 

He gets credit for not letting the team leave NJ. I never thought the team was going to leave NJ, that was all posturing.

 

We did get the ROCK with him as owner but as much credit or more goes to the City of Newark.

 

When an arena needs both an NBA and NHL to be financially sound how did he let the Nets go to Brooklyn on his watch?

 

 

Just saying so it isn't hate  just the reality that he was just OK.

 

He was a big and I assume still is a Devils fan.

 

He had money and saw a way to make more money but his world crumbled.

 

Just curious, since JVB doesn't own the Nets, what could he have done?


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#43 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:59 AM

Just curious, since JVB doesn't own the Nets, what could he have done?

 

Don't feed the troll.


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#44 Colin226

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:02 AM


Just curious, since JVB doesn't own the Nets, what could he have done?


There's nothing he could have done.. The Nets were already set to go to Brooklyn before they agreed to play at the Rock.. And to that point, Jeff was great in making the deal with NJSEA to even get 2 seasons of Nets basketball in his building
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#45 DevsMan84

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:03 AM

Don't feed the troll.

 

Oh I am totally expecting a far-fetched and completely illogical answer.


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#46 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:10 AM

There's nothing he could have done.. The Nets were already set to go to Brooklyn before they agreed to play at the Rock.. And to that point, Jeff was great in making the deal with NJSEA to even get 2 seasons of Nets basketball in his building

 

Once the Nets were sold to Ratner, there was nothing that JVB could do to stop them from moving to Brooklyn.  His only hope was that the opposition to the Barlcay's arena project would somehow win in court and stop the project from moving forward based upon their challenge to the ridiculous "eminent domain"/"blighted area" decision (how a government can take your private property to turn it over to another private owner, is beyond me).  Once they lost, the Nets were goners.


Oh I am totally expecting a far-fetched and completely illogical answer.

 

Logic, reason and LD are not words that you will ever see together in the same sentence.


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#47 DevsMan84

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:11 AM

Once the Nets were sold to Ratner, there was nothing that JVB could do to stop them from moving to Brooklyn.  His only hope was that the opposition to the Barlcay's arena project would somehow win in court and stop the project from moving forward based upon their challenge to the ridiculous "eminent domain"/"blighted area" decision (how a government can take your private property to turn it over to another private owner, is beyond me).  Once they lost, the Nets were goners.

 

You forgot to point out the fact the owner gets compensated fair market value, so I am not really crying for those people.  There are entire cities where I wish they were siezed via eminent domain.


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#48 ThreeCups

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:13 AM

No written sources but certainly from people in the know. Let's put it this way, it's not some girl who saw ferris pass out at 31 flavors last night. Former lehman guys. Connections to the team, etc.

 

 

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#49 Triumph

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:16 AM

It's quite simple. Teams swap assets in a trade.

 

And you think Kovalchuk is an asset with 12 years left on his deal coming off a year where he had the lowest scoring rate of his career and suffered an injury (this after being injured in the playoffs the year before).


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#50 DH26

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:21 AM

And you think Kovalchuk is an asset with 12 years left on his deal coming off a year where he had the lowest scoring rate of his career and suffered an injury (this after being injured in the playoffs the year before).

 

It's the Luongo situation all over again. There aren't gonna be any "hockey" trades out there. You dump him for a 7th rounder at most so it's essentially the same. Gillis tried to trade Luongo for a solid asset like Bjugstad but other teams said no dice. Same thing would happen w/ Kovy


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#51 ATLL765

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:50 AM

If Vanderbeek is bouncing player checks, he's got to be gone sometime soon.  It was reported in late June, Lou's saying it - seems like it is going to happen.

 

Also re trading Kovalchuk - even if they had managed to do that, I cannot see how that would leave NJ in better shape than they're in now.

I assumed the cap recapture penalty would then, for the most part, fall to the team that acquires him. Is that not the case? I just figured it works where the team that gets the benefit, gets the penalty. A trade, while it may not have helped us this instant, could definitely have given us a 1st rd pick in the next draft.


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#52 Triumph

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:09 AM

I assumed the cap recapture penalty would then, for the most part, fall to the team that acquires him. Is that not the case? I just figured it works where the team that gets the benefit, gets the penalty. A trade, while it may not have helped us this instant, could definitely have given us a 1st rd pick in the next draft.

 

What?! Who is giving up a 1st round pick for that contract?  

 

A:  It has 12 years left on it.

 

B:  The Devils only ate one of the big money years.  So you've got the next 5 years at $55M.

 

C:  After paying for the privilege of acquiring $11M in salary on the books for each of the next 5 years, you will also acquire a cap recapture penalty when Kovalchuk retires.

 

All this would be great if Kovalchuk were scoring 50 goals, but he had two of his worst years as a pro as a Devil and picked up two injuries.

 

You've already knocked out all the small and mid market teams with the salary alone.  The big market teams almost all have a contract like this they're going to have to eat down the line.  None of them offered Kovalchuk a deal like this back in 2010.  How is Kovalchuk an asset?  You can trade him for another contract like his, but just trading him for assets?  Unlikely.


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#53 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:22 AM

What?! Who is giving up a 1st round pick for that contract?  

 

A:  It has 12 years left on it.

 

B:  The Devils only ate one of the big money years.  So you've got the next 5 years at $55M.

 

C:  After paying for the privilege of acquiring $11M in salary on the books for each of the next 5 years, you will also acquire a cap recapture penalty when Kovalchuk retires.

 

All this would be great if Kovalchuk were scoring 50 goals, but he had two of his worst years as a pro as a Devil and picked up two injuries.

 

You've already knocked out all the small and mid market teams with the salary alone.  The big market teams almost all have a contract like this they're going to have to eat down the line.  None of them offered Kovalchuk a deal like this back in 2010.  How is Kovalchuk an asset?  You can trade him for another contract like his, but just trading him for assets?  Unlikely.

 

In 100% agreement on this.  Was going to post something similar.

 

Once the initial shock of losing a guy we thought would be one of the faces of the franchise for just about forever (in sports years) wears off, we should all realize, almost to a fan, how well this all worked out in the Devils' favor.  These contracts are pretty much disasters-in-waiting the second the pen hits the paper. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 25 July 2013 - 10:23 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#54 newarkcupparade

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:23 AM

You forgot to point out the fact the owner gets compensated fair market value, so I am not really crying for those people.  There are entire cities where I wish they were siezed via eminent domain.

 

Having fought and won an eminent domain suit with my own property, I can assure you that the compensation is not nearly market value. Also, the original purpose was to build necessary infrastructure like highways. Towns started to use it to try and bolster their tax income and that is just wrong. 


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#55 LucifersDog

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:26 AM

So the only piece of what I wrote you don't agree with is the piece about the Nets.

 

Vanderbeek was negotiating long before he bought he actually the Devils and the Nets at that time weren't going to Brooklyn nor was the present of the Nets owner involved with any transaction.


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#56 devlman

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

And you think Kovalchuk is an asset with 12 years left on his deal coming off a year where he had the lowest scoring rate of his career and suffered an injury (this after being injured in the playoffs the year before).

 

Absolutely. You're saying not one team would make a play for one of the premier goal scorers in the league, despite his bloated contract? Furthermore, even getting back a sixth round pick for him is more than what we got in reality. So to answer your original question, Yes, of course we would would have been better off.


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#57 NJDevs4978

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:45 AM

Zero teams offered the Russian merc anything close to what he got from us when they only had to pay money. They aren't paying money AND an asset to get him now coming off of a poor year. That's the reality of a cap world (especially with the lower number this year) with cap penalties looming on the contract.
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#58 Triumph

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:49 AM

Absolutely. You're saying not one team would make a play for one of the premier goal scorers in the league, despite his bloated contract? Furthermore, even getting back a sixth round pick for him is more than what we got in reality. So to answer your original question, Yes, of course we would would have been better off.

 

I am saying that no team could take on his contract without at least shipping an awful contract our way.

 

Kovalchuk had one year in the last 3 where he was among the top 10 goal scorers in the league, and one year in the last 3 where he was among the top 10 in shots per game, this despite playing more than any forward in the league, including double shifting the power play.  He would've had the 5th highest salary in the league next year.  Oh, and he's signed for 12 more seasons.  

 

As 4978 said, no one offered him that deal when he was a free agent.  Now he's lived up to the contract in 1 of the 3 years, there's a penalty associated with the contract, and NJ has hardly eaten any of the big money years, and the salary cap came way down.  Where is this big market team not already up to their ears in contracts that can just take this deal on?


Edited by Triumph, 25 July 2013 - 11:51 AM.

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#59 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

Absolutely. You're saying not one team would make a play for one of the premier goal scorers in the league, despite his bloated contract? Furthermore, even getting back a sixth round pick for him is more than what we got in reality. So to answer your original question, Yes, of course we would would have been better off.

 

Re-read what Tri wrote.  If Kovy was scoring at his Thrasher rate and had looked great doing it in his three years as Devil and was 100% healthy, yeah, maybe someone takes on the deal (though it would have required getting another lifetime-like deal coming back). 

 

But that's not what happened.  Two very "meh" seasons (by Kovy's standards), one good one (that required a lot of ice time), and two injuries.  That would have led what few teams that might have been able to take on a horrible contract to be very cautious, especially with several big-money years coming. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#60 mouse

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:09 PM

Re-read what Tri wrote.  If Kovy was scoring at his Thrasher rate and had looked great doing it in his three years as Devil and was 100% healthy, yeah, maybe someone takes on the deal (though it would have required getting another lifetime-like deal coming back). 

 

But that's not what happened.  Two very "meh" seasons (by Kovy's standards), one good one (that required a lot of ice time), and two injuries.  That would have led what few teams that might have been able to take on a horrible contract to be very cautious, especially with several big-money years coming. 

This. Remember, only 2 teams were willing to pay him close to what he got when he was a free agent (us and LA). Now he's a worse player with a ton of mileage. That doesn't mean losing him doesn't hurt us (at least in the short team, though i agree with what many have said about the long term benefits of losing a cap anchor), or that he's not still an all star and borderline superstar, but he's not worth the money, especially now that the cap is lower. Even stupid teams with a long history of taking bad contracts like the Rags can't take a contract like Kovy's without clearing space, which would mean we take back a new bad contract, probably of a lesser player. If you want Luongo, then yes, we could have traded Kovy to Vancouver instead of a high draft pick. I'd rather have Schneider, both because he's a better player AND because he's not signed to one of the worst contracts in the sport, so Kovy leaving for Russia rather than accepting an NHL trade helped us.


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