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How Bad Has Toronto's Offseason Been?


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#21 sundstrom

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:29 AM

re: Holik; HOI can probably give you more accuracy but according to the book Money Players, Holik was absolutely set on the Rangers and set the contract that he got. Sather actually tried to lower it and Holik said no. He wanted the Rangers and nobody else.


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#22 HellOnICE

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:50 AM

It had nothing to do with the DVD thing Hasan.

 

Holik and I have had this discussion many many times - I wish we still had the podcast - but he had grown a little tired of the organization in NJ, especially the arbitration case which was well documented, etc. The NYR was his first choice not because it was the NYR and he wanted to stick it to Lou, but because he really liked the area. His daughter was just about to start school at the time and he had just built a house next to Daneyko in North Caldwell. That house, I believe if I'm not mistaken, was finished in '99. He didn't want to move.

 

Now when the NYR called the day of, yes they gave him a whole presentation, including the Tiffany Big Crystal Apple, and yadadada. The Maple Leafs made a great pitch too, and Bobby was really really close to signing there - in fact TML had the best offer at the moment, until Bobby went back to the NYR and said essentially if you hit X, I'm yours. The NYR said no problem. Mind you, inside of the contract, they also provided Bobby with other perks like a luxury box. Living in NJ, he actually took NJTransit to a lot of home games if I'm not mistaken.

 

In terms of the way they take care of players, the NYR is first-rate. At the time anyway. (And take your Devil blinders off here people)...At the time, I remember Holik asking the NYR for a couple of tshirts and hats for some family, and they sent the equivalent of a new wardrobe. These huge boxes for him. Now, the Devils would have asked for a credit card number and would have given him a small discount. When he was in NJ, he called them a country club compartively - and they are. it's not a bad thing if the team is good and the atmosphere is good (like it is now). Despite his tumultous time in NY, and his lawsuit against the NYR after he left, he has nothing bad to say about his time there. He really liked playing there despite the not so good teams.


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#23 Triumph

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:57 PM

Clarkson is going to be fine.  I don't think you understand how long it has been since the Leafs have had Good Ontario Boys on the team.  The fact that Wendel Clark - yeah he had some good years, but ultimately is not a great player (who reveres Gerard Gallant in Detroit?) - is the guy to live up to says it all.  Clarkson will hit and fight and score a few goals and the people who would complain about his contract will complain about it, but Joe Leaf Fan will like Clarkson and wish they had more guys like him on the team.  And he'll get to talk with Don Cherry on HNIC all the time.


Edited by Triumph, 31 July 2013 - 03:57 PM.

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#24 devilsrule33

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:01 PM

Clarkson is going to be fine.  I don't think you understand how long it has been since the Leafs have had Good Ontario Boys on the team.  The fact that Wendel Clark - yeah he had some good years, but ultimately is not a great player (who reveres Gerard Gallant in Detroit?) - is the guy to live up to says it all.  Clarkson will hit and fight and score a few goals and the people who would complain about his contract will complain about it, but Joe Leaf Fan will like Clarkson and wish they had more guys like him on the team.  And he'll get to talk with Don Cherry on HNIC all the time.

 

Oh the lovefest has already begun with Cherry and Clarkson. Enjoy


Edited by devilsrule33, 31 July 2013 - 04:01 PM.

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#25 Derek21

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 01:49 AM

In bold:  he may not be, mostly because I don't think Leaf fans are going to be fair or realistic with their expectations.  He should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Wendel Clark.

 

That cannot be controlled due to Clarkson returning home and admitting Clark was someone he idolized. Of course, he pales in comparison. However, no one can question his work ethic. He's never been the best skater. A former lacrosse player who worked his tail off. In Toronto, expectations will be unrealistic. Clarkson can aid their power play and his style is a perfect fit. I wonder about his durability. He's tough as nails but the way he plays is similar to Callahan. I don't expect him to last either.


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#26 Derek21

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 01:59 AM

Clarkson is going to be fine.  I don't think you understand how long it has been since the Leafs have had Good Ontario Boys on the team.  The fact that Wendel Clark - yeah he had some good years, but ultimately is not a great player (who reveres Gerard Gallant in Detroit?) - is the guy to live up to says it all.  Clarkson will hit and fight and score a few goals and the people who would complain about his contract will complain about it, but Joe Leaf Fan will like Clarkson and wish they had more guys like him on the team.  And he'll get to talk with Don Cherry on HNIC all the time.

 

Clark was a bull for the Leafs on those 2 Conference Final teams. He was beloved. They made the smart play acquiring Sundin. A trade made possible because the teams were in opposite conferences. An exciting time to be a hockey fan.


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#27 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:07 AM

Clarkson is going to be fine.  I don't think you understand how long it has been since the Leafs have had Good Ontario Boys on the team.  The fact that Wendel Clark - yeah he had some good years, but ultimately is not a great player (who reveres Gerard Gallant in Detroit?) - is the guy to live up to says it all.  Clarkson will hit and fight and score a few goals and the people who would complain about his contract will complain about it, but Joe Leaf Fan will like Clarkson and wish they had more guys like him on the team.  And he'll get to talk with Don Cherry on HNIC all the time.

 

Clark wasn't great, but he was unique...you don't see too many guys who could be as gritty as Clark, yet could find the back of the net as often as he did (and you admitted yourself that you weren't even really watching hockey when Clark played his first 10 seasons or so).  He had a way of making his presence felt pretty heavily in a number of games, in multiple ways, when he was actually on the ice.  He played in Live Puck for most of his Leafs career, but he did score 260 goals in 608 career games as a Leaf (that's 35 per 82 GP), and scored 30 or more six times.  Of course, Clark missed a ton of games throughout his career, and was done by the age of 33 (he looked 43).  His brutish style of play came at a heavy price. 

 

Whether or not Clarkson will be fine will depend on how Leaf fans accept him.  If they're happy with 15-20 goals, 30-40 points, and Clarkson's work ethic, and don't mind that the Leafs overpaid quite a bit for his skillset, yeah, he could be OK, at least for the first few seasons.  By logic, all the Leaf faithful have to do is check out his Devil numbers to realize the 30-goal season was probably a fluke, and that he's not going to be racking up 50-60 points per season.   


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#28 devilsrule33

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:12 AM

Whether or not Clarkson will be fine will depend on how Leaf fans accept him.  If they're happy with 15-20 goals, 30-40 points, and Clarkson's work ethic, and don't mind that the Leafs overpaid quite a bit for his skillset, yeah, he could be OK, at least for the first few seasons.  By logic, all the Leaf faithful have to do is check out his Devil numbers to realize the 30-goal season was probably a fluke, and that he's not going to be racking up 50-60 points per season.   

 

Well you got two sides here:

 

You have old-school fans who are happy with the off-season Nonis had building a team that Carlyle liked. They got rid of Grabovski who was someone who wasn't very good and couldn't play for Carlyle, They added two great rough and tough Canadian boys in Dave Bolland (Stanley Cup game winning goal!) and David Clarkson. So these guys are only going to improve team toughness and grit when you add that with McLaren and Orr. This is an improvement on a playoff team that was 10 minutes away from defeating the best team in the East. They can play with anyone.

 

And you have some newer school fans or old school too who realize Grabovski wasn't ultilized right by Carlyle and is actually an extremely effective player when used right. And replacing him with Bolland is insane. They also realize the Leafs were one of the luckiest playoff teams ever with an awful defense, that was bailed out by Reimer all year They played with a PDO way over 1.000. They were the most outshot playoff team since the Canadiens in 2002, who had a fluky year of their own led by Hart Trophy winner Jose Theodore. They regressed heavily in 2003, and fired their coach mid-season and eventually missed the playoffs.

 

So if the Leafs start to struggle, I think the fans generally excited about what Clarkson brings will take out a ton of frustrations on him and won't even enjoy any of the attributes that Tri and Don Cherry mentioned. Some other fans will know Clarkson is one bad move in a generally awful off-season by Dave Nonis and that this team was bound to regress.

 

I think we know which voice will be heard louder. In my opinion, the Leafs are doomed to struggle, and unless Clarkson is the one shining star, he's going to be the whipping boy. 


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#29 Triumph

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:35 AM

Clarkson's going to play more in Toronto than he did in New Jersey (except for this past year).  He'll play on the 2nd line with Nazem Kadri.  Even with his horrible shooting luck this year, he was still on pace for 25 goals in 82 games.  While I think the Leafs will struggle, the media narrative will be about defense - the Leafs actually have decent forwards. 


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#30 DH26

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:40 AM

Clarkson's going to play more in Toronto than he did in New Jersey (except for this past year).  He'll play on the 2nd line with Nazem Kadri.  Even with his horrible shooting luck this year, he was still on pace for 25 goals in 82 games.  While I think the Leafs will struggle, the media narrative will be about defense - the Leafs actually have decent forwards. 

 

Paul Ranger and Mark Fraser playing big minutes not doing it for ya? And of course they'll trade Franson because leafs


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