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Brodeur vs Roy.. vote!


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#21 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:57 AM

Well said, agree with this.

In one game?  I'd take Roy for sure, but to build a franchise I'd take Marty.

 

What's also great about the three of them is that they were all so DIFFERENT in their approaches (butterfly guy, hybrid puckhandler, and stop-the-puck any way possible), but they all had success.  And they each stood out in their own way...even their personalities were so diverse.  The goalies now, even the good ones, seem to all be so blah...almost faceless...there's nothing about them that stand out, and it seems like when a current goalie DOES get noticed, it's not for the best of reasons (Luongo, Bryzgalov).  So many butterfly-types these days, with some being better at it than others.  The Big Three will be remembered throughout the league for years and years.  Guys like Lundqvist, terrific as they are, seem like they're only going to be remembered mostly by their individual franchises and fanbases...in Lundqvist's case, if he can carry his team to a Cup or two, that could change though.    


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 08 August 2013 - 09:58 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#22 mouse

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:37 AM

Eh, Lundquist will be remembered. He's good. He makes some unconventional saves. He's got the whole rock star vibe. I don't root for him, obviously, and I want to punch the Rags fans who spend most of their lives riding his cock, but he's legit.


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#23 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:39 AM

Eh, Lundquist will be remembered. He's good. He makes some unconventional saves. He's got the whole rock star vibe. I don't root for him, obviously, and I want to punch the Rags fans who spend most of their lives riding his cock, but he's legit.

 

I agree, Lundqvist is very good, I just don't think he'll be remembered as widely, or on the same level as the Big Three.  I really don't see anyone playing right now that will.  There's something special about those three.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#24 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:56 AM

I agree, Lundqvist is very good, I just don't think he'll be remembered as widely, or on the same level as the Big Three.  I really don't see anyone playing right now that will.  There's something special about those three.

 

If they ever truly regulate equipment, goaltending in general will be much more entertaining and diverse. The pads now are all built to the same butterfly drop-and-let-the-puck-hit-you style. When goalies are forced to move and react like they did, the guys like Roy, Hasek, and Marty really rise to the top. 


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#25 mouse

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:59 AM

I agree, Lundqvist is very good, I just don't think he'll be remembered as widely, or on the same level as the Big Three.  I really don't see anyone playing right now that will.  There's something special about those three.

Agreed. I'm not sure that's a product of the era, though. Those 3 were just special players. IMO there are a bunch of goalies today who are on the level of CuJo, probably HOF, people who watched them will remember them, but a noticeable step down from the Big Three.


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You don't turn this around in a couple shifts. Its going to take a little time, but I know the guys will come back. Because I can see it. -- Jacques Lemaire

 

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#26 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

Martin Brodeur's best season is better than Patrick Roy's for a few reasons. First, not only did Brodeur have a .927 sv% in his best season but his puck handling probably limited his shots by a shot or two per game.


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#27 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

Martin Brodeur's best season is better than Patrick Roy's for a few reasons. First, not only did Brodeur have a .927 sv% in his best season but his puck handling probably limited his shots by a shot or two per game.

 

To be fair, it could've been different if Roy played almost all of his career during Dead Puck.  From '87-'88 to '91-'92, Roy put up season save% and GAAs of .900 and 2.90, .908 and 2.47, .912 and 2.53, .906 and 2.71, .914 and 2.36.  Anything that's bolded shows when he led the NHL in that category, which shows how much different the game was for roughly the first half of Roy's career. 

 

Roy put up a .923 save% in 62 GP in '96-'97, and a .925 save% (with a league-leading 1.94 GAA) in '01-'02.  He was terrific for Colorado right up until his last season, at 37 years old.  His numbers from '96-'97 to '02-'03 (the end of his career) were remarkably consistent:

 

61 to 65 GP per season.

Save%:  .923, .916, .917, .914, .913, .925, .920  (.918 overall)

GAA:  2.32, 2.39, 2.29, 2.28, 2.21, 1.94, 2.18 

 

What's fair to say he very well could've kept going...his numbers showed no decline at all.  

 

EDIT:  Does anybody remember why he retired when he did?  Did he just decide to go out before his skills eroded? 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 08 August 2013 - 02:30 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#28 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

 

 

EDIT:  Does anybody remember why he retired when he did?  Did he just decide to go out before his skills eroded? 

 

I'm pretty sure that was why. I remember it wasn't very surprising. When the Aves got eliminated in overtime against the Wild, I remember thinking 'wow, Roy's career ends on a fairly unspectacular goal.'  I believe Andrew Brunette just went around him and scored. I think it was pretty much accepted that he was done. He announced officially during the finals that year. 

 

If I remember right, I believe not getting selected to start for the 2002 Olympics may have had something to do with him deciding he wasn't the best anymore. 

 

edit.. heres that last goal. It just didn't look like the Roy of old.

 


Edited by Devil Dan 56, 08 August 2013 - 02:40 PM.

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#29 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:50 PM

I'm pretty sure that was why. I remember it wasn't very surprising. When the Aves got eliminated in overtime against the Wild, I remember thinking 'wow, Roy's career ends on a fairly unspectacular goal.'  I believe Andrew Brunette just went around him and scored. I think it was pretty much accepted that he was done. He announced officially during the finals that year. 

 

If I remember right, I believe not getting selected to start for the 2002 Olympics may have had something to do with him deciding he wasn't the best anymore. 

 

edit.. heres that last goal. It just didn't look like the Roy of old.

 

Oh man, that could happen to anybody at anytime though...no goalie is perfect.  His '02-'03 regular season numbers were terrific.  But yeah, I do kind of remember it not being a major surprise either. 

 

I'm knocking Marty or Roy one bit here, but if Marty held himself to what seems like the insane performance standard that Roy apparently held himself to, he probably would've called it quits after '10-'11.  Roy probably still had some hockey left in him...physically, anyway.     


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#30 ATLL765

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:52 PM

If they ever truly regulate equipment, goaltending in general will be much more entertaining and diverse. The pads now are all built to the same butterfly drop-and-let-the-puck-hit-you style. When goalies are forced to move and react like they did, the guys like Roy, Hasek, and Marty really rise to the top. 

I feel the same way. If you had every starter in the league put on the same color scheme on their pads and I watched them stop a few pucks, I'd have no idea who I was looking at. If there's one single change to the game I'd like to see, it's putting limits on goalie's pads. I want everything restricted. The amount of the chest protector allowed to jut out above the shoulder, the width of leg pads, the height allowed above the knee, the width of the cuff of a glove, etc, I want EVERYTHING looked at.

Now, we all know the NHLPA and goalies everywhere will whine, "but da pucks will hurt my poor wittle body", so they should do testing with accelerometers to know how thick the padding truly needs to be to slow the puck to a point where it won't cause any real damage.


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#31 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:57 PM

When Chico Resch was playing, the exposed net behind him practically looked like a soccer goal compared to now.  He's supposedly 5' 9" (seems generous), but if a casual hockey fan watched the DVDs I have of old Rockies and Devils games, he would swear the nets are smaller now. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 08 August 2013 - 02:58 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#32 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:21 PM

Oh man, that could happen to anybody at anytime though...no goalie is perfect.  His '02-'03 regular season numbers were terrific.  But yeah, I do kind of remember it not being a major surprise either. 

 

I'm knocking Marty or Roy one bit here, but if Marty held himself to what seems like the insane performance standard that Roy apparently held himself to, he probably would've called it quits after '10-'11.  Roy probably still had some hockey left in him...physically, anyway.     

 

 

I wasn't referring to the goal itself, as much as remembering it as almost fact that it was his last goal. The goal itself, it almost felt like slow motion when Brunette went around him. His body language was strange on it. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm remembering controversy about the Olympics in 2002, and him declining to go if he wasn't named starter. Whether it was because he felt he deserved to start, I don't know. 

 

 

edit.. Here we go... he wanted to rest, and the article mentions an ailing hip

 

http://sportsillustr.../roy_canada_ap/


Edited by Devil Dan 56, 08 August 2013 - 05:25 PM.

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#33 Devs1965

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:15 AM

if I had to pick a goalie in their prime, Marty!  One big reason, Marty's records are not through the roof even more is, A: the loss of years due to lock out! and B: That stupid Trapezoid rule if Marty was allowed to play the puck to his ability hands down there is no one who compares. IMO it is unfair to compare because The Goalies such as Roy did not have any rules made just for them!


Edited by Devs1965, 12 August 2013 - 11:16 AM.

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#34 mouse

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:18 AM

if I had to pick a goalie in their prime, Marty , one big reason Marty's records are not through the roof even more is A: the loss of years due to lock out! and B: That stupid Trapezoid rule if Marty was allowed to play the puck to his ability hands down there is no one who compares. IMO it is unfair to compare because The Goalies such as Roy did not have any rules made just for them!

But the shootout has inflated his wins total. IMO it's difficult to compare Roy and Marty statistically. There are too many variables -- Roy starting out in the live puck era, Roy choosing to retire when he still had some quality years left, the trapezoid hurting Marty, Roy's decision to bolt the Habs when they went downhill while Marty stuck around and carried a couple of week Devils teams.


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#35 Devs1965

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:27 AM

But the shootout has inflated his wins total. IMO it's difficult to compare Roy and Marty statistically. There are too many variables -- Roy starting out in the live puck era, Roy choosing to retire when he still had some quality years left, the trapezoid hurting Marty, Roy's decision to bolt the Habs when they went downhill while Marty stuck around and carried a couple of week Devils teams.

I agree it is very hard to ask that question. Maybe because I am a Devils fan I would want Marty for that one game but without the trapezoid rule, if I had to pick one! but very unfair to compare. IMO


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#36 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:35 PM

Voted Marty because I'm a homer. But deep down, I know I'm picking Roy if it's for one game.


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#37 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:49 PM

Voted Marty because I'm a homer. But deep down, I know I'm picking Roy if it's for one game.

 

 

Roy was 10-1 in OT in the '93 playoffs (Montreal's last Cup)...that is insane. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#38 LucifersDog

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:52 PM

If it is a very important game then Roy is my choice.


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#39 The 29th Pick

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:26 PM

Roy was 10-1 in OT in the '93 playoffs (Montreal's last Cup)...that is insane. 

I remember watching that series, not a Habs fan but it was a good time watching them win in OT all the time, they always got it done, I think Kirk Muller had a few OT winners that series.


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#40 AEWHistory

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:43 AM

I'm pretty sure that was why. I remember it wasn't very surprising. When the Aves got eliminated in overtime against the Wild, I remember thinking 'wow, Roy's career ends on a fairly unspectacular goal.'  I believe Andrew Brunette just went around him and scored. I think it was pretty much accepted that he was done. He announced officially during the finals that year. 
 
If I remember right, I believe not getting selected to start for the 2002 Olympics may have had something to do with him deciding he wasn't the best anymore. 
 
edit.. heres that last goal. It just didn't look like the Roy of old.
 


I think Roy thought his Dman had Brunette covers to his left and he took the right. But Brunette swung to Roy's left, the Dman couldnt stop him, and Roy seemed almost surprised Brunette wasn't blocked off. that's my take on that play. You can easily see that as being Roy losing a step, but for me I see Roy as just being shocked that Brunette was able to thread thru the blocked angle. My $.02.
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