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Column on Elias to HOF


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#1 DH26

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:18 PM

Dunno if anyone else here saw it, but Dave Lozo who used to work for NHL.com and used to be a Devils fan before he was a writer wrote about Elias' HOF candidacy. Not exactly sure I agree w/ him that the Dino Cicarellis of the world are equal to Elias, but one man's opinion

 

http://blogs.thescor...vies-and-pizza/


Edited by DH26, 20 August 2013 - 10:19 PM.

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#2 Derek21

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:23 PM

He's a very good player with longevity. But isn't a Hall Of Famer. There are plenty of players who are just a cut below. Elias has 2 Cups and has been consistent. Maybe if he had a couple of monster seasons, I'd say yes. At the very least, he's the Devils' all-time franchise leader in goals, assists and points. My favorite rival player.


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#3 Revan

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:34 AM

I was on the fence on this, but the points about him losing games due to both lockout and hepatitis during literally the best time of his career sort of got me on the bandwagon. Besides, when you look at the Devils teams from the past few years, you see some guys going through ups and downs, Parise and Kovalchuk... and yet Elias is always where he should be - Zach/Kovy has a down year? Don't worry, Elias is a lock for #1 in scoring on the team. He's rock solid. Not a dominant player in this league, but always solid. And let's face it, the HHOF has already inducted guys based on consistence instead of domination in the past.

 

That being said, he still has three years left to play (thank God, we would probably be complete bottom feeders otherwise), so a lot of this is still speculation. I'm excited about watching him playing on the same team (and line, hopefuilly) with Jagr.


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#4 Triumph

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:38 AM

Nowhere in Lozo's column is defense mentioned, which is what puts him above a bunch of guys already in.  He's better than Ciccarelli, Mullen, Robitaille, etc. etc.  But the HOF committee is a backslapping group of Canadian pals, so I don't expect Elias to get in any time soon.


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#5 MantaRay

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

Elias is a HOF, no doubt.   No one has sacrificed more individual statistics for the good of the franchise/team.   To excel in a defensive first system and thrive says a lot about his HOF character.  Regardless of the different cast of characters on his teams, he has been instrumental in helping to get four Devils variations to the SC Finals, winning twice.  He is a strong silent leader and teacher, our greatest leader post Stevens.    He is a HOF in my book.


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#6 Triumph

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:52 AM

He's a very good player with longevity. But isn't a Hall Of Famer. There are plenty of players who are just a cut below. Elias has 2 Cups and has been consistent. Maybe if he had a couple of monster seasons, I'd say yes. At the very least, he's the Devils' all-time franchise leader in goals, assists and points. My favorite rival player.

 

Mats Sundin had 2 top ten finishes in points.  But he was a dominant player and people recognize that, in part because Sundin got to have 6 seasons before the Dead Puck era began so he was able to pile up 500 goals.  When Dave Andreychuk gets in, and he will, he had 2 top 10 finishes in goals and 1 in points, and was a 2 time All-Star.  

 

Elias has no time before the Dead Puck era.  Now that Kovalchuk's gone, there's only a few guys who look to be headed towards 500 goals - Hossa, Marleau (whose candidacy is a also large question mark), maybe Lecavalier (he needs 100+, is banged up, might not make it), Ovechkin, maybe Gaborik, maybe Nash. But a lot of these guys got in great seasons during the 2 years of non-dead puck era and their goal scoring rates should be slowing.

 

I'm pretty convinced if Elias had 70+ points in 02 and 03 no one would be doubting his candidacy but those little hiccups are enough.


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#7 SMantzas

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:06 AM

He's about as borderline as it gets

 

Some factors in his favor-

 

1) Will likely get 1,000 points

2) The undisputed offensive leader of a team from 00-08, then top 2 or 3 for the remaining of his time on a team with Parise and Kovalchuk

3) Sterling defensive play

4) Successful international career including captaining the Czechs in the Olympics

5) Some impressive accolades including All-rookie team, 3x allstar, 2 time Cup champion, 1st team allstar (2001)

6) Impressive post season numbers

7) Top 5 in points (1), Top 10 (3), Top 20 (4)

 

Some factors against him-

 

1) Played in a small(ish) market his whole career

2) Wasn't dominant sans 00-01 and 05-06 when he came back

3) Not the flashiest player who will consistently wow you with a sick shot or a deke......just plays a very quiet game

4) Never really THE key cog for NJ. Whether it was Brodeur, Stevens, Niedermayer, Parise or Kovalchuk, Elias wasn't usually regarded as the best player on the Devils

 

I suppose to an outsider who doesn't consistently watch Elias, he doesn't jump out at you. But when you watch him night in and night out, it's obvious that he's a special player who plays all situations and does the little things to help this club win.


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#8 '7'

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:06 PM

If not for the lockouts and the hep-c robbing him of what would've been a monster 05-06, Elias is already sitting at at least 415-425 goals and at least 1050 points. He would be a lock at that point.

 

Still 400 goals and 1000 points are pretty much a certainty. Another trip to the finals would certainly help

 

Smantzas is right, he's as borderline as it gets. The best thing he can do at this point is just compile and stick around as long as he can. It'll be tough to keep him out if he ever cracks 1100 points. That'll put him on the outskirts of the top 50 all time scorers


Edited by '7', 21 August 2013 - 06:13 PM.

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#9 CarpathianForest

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:51 PM

Cam Neely is in the HOF.


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#10 '7'

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:23 PM

Cam Neely is in the HOF.

 

Cam Neely had insane stretches of dominance....can't compare him to Elias. Very different players. A case can be made for Neely not being there...but I saw Neely when he was reasonably healthy and I'm not going to put up a big stink about him being in the HOF

 

Gillies however can't lace Elias' skates


Edited by '7', 21 August 2013 - 09:26 PM.

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#11 Derek21

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 02:20 AM

Mats Sundin had 2 top ten finishes in points.  But he was a dominant player and people recognize that, in part because Sundin got to have 6 seasons before the Dead Puck era began so he was able to pile up 500 goals.  When Dave Andreychuk gets in, and he will, he had 2 top 10 finishes in goals and 1 in points, and was a 2 time All-Star.  

 

Elias has no time before the Dead Puck era.  Now that Kovalchuk's gone, there's only a few guys who look to be headed towards 500 goals - Hossa, Marleau (whose candidacy is a also large question mark), maybe Lecavalier (he needs 100+, is banged up, might not make it), Ovechkin, maybe Gaborik, maybe Nash. But a lot of these guys got in great seasons during the 2 years of non-dead puck era and their goal scoring rates should be slowing.

 

I'm pretty convinced if Elias had 70+ points in 02 and 03 no one would be doubting his candidacy but those little hiccups are enough.

 

 

I looked at Sundin and for the most part, he was very consistent. Only 1 100-+ point year. 114 in '92-93 with Quebec. One 90-plus point season with the Leafs. Three seasons of 40+ goals. In terms of candidacy, 500+ goals and a point-per-game throughout his career (1,349 over 1,346). He ranks pretty high on the all-time scoring list among European born skaters.

 

The biggest difference between him and Elias is that he was the best player on those Toronto teams. They didn't have the best talent and ultimately fell short against better Devil teams. Elias had a big part in it. He put up consecutive monster postseasons including your second Cup. If you want to illustrate his pluses, 125 points over 162 career postseason games is pretty solid. He has a chance to reach 400 goals and 1,000 points this season. Needs 25 goals and 70 points. Very possible if he's the feature guy with Kovalchuk gone. Two Cups. A career Devil. Needs 10 games for 1,100 in his career. Two 80-plus point years including his career best in '00-01 going 40-56-96 +45 over 82 and 9-14-23 +11 in playoffs.

 

Oddly enough, he has very similar numbers to Hossa. Elias: 930 points over 1,090 games. Hossa: 935 in 1,018. Both have similar career plus/minuses. Elias (191) and Hossa (183). Marian has 434 goals to Patrik's 375. Obviously, Hossa's been more productive amassing 2 90-plus point seasons including hitting the century mark with Atlanta in '06-07. Two seasons of 80 points or more with Ottawa. Ironically, Stevens neutralized him in the Conference Final. He's scored 40 or better three times. Both Elias and Hossa each have 2 Cups. Game-winners Reg. Season: Elias (78) Hossa (70). Elias (15) trails only new teammate Jagr (17) for most career OT winners. He's tied with Sundin and Fedorov for second. Kovalchuk (14) was fifth. Niedermayer had 13 and Ovechkin 12.


Edited by Derek21, 22 August 2013 - 02:21 AM.

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