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#541 Daniel

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 11:14 AM

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. People want these Hail Mary picks and then call them busts a couple of years later.

I'm sure people hated the Henrique pick when it happened because they wanted another guy that they read 3 sentences about on the internet.

 

It's just common sense that if a player is a goon in junior, he'll likely be a goon when he eventually works his way to the ECHL.  It's also common sense that a player who puts up a lot of points in junior is more likely to be able to do that than someone that doesn't. 

 

Now the latter does not necessarily separate a player like Point (who scored a ton) over Quenneville (who scored less, but still plenty), and that's why, as of Friday night, I wasn't too down on the front office.  But it does mean that's it's better to take a shot on Point (who people with actual scouting experience gave a first round ranking) over someone who doesn't project to be any more than a grinder if he ever makes it to the NHL  (Chatham).  It also means that you take a shot on players in the latter rounds who have some offensive upside, over players that are just a complete waste of space.

 

It's also common sense that you should be very reluctant to take a defenseman with your second round pick when the system is overfilling with defensive prospects, who your own propaganda is saying should be in the NHL in the next one or two years (if they're not there already) for the foreseeable future.  Especially when there is zero scoring ability in the system. 

 

As I said, the biggest thing with Saturday is that it shows that Lou and Conte are oblivious to what is happening around them. 


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#542 devilsrule33

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 11:16 AM

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. People want these Hail Mary picks and then call them busts a couple of years later.

I'm sure people hated the Henrique pick when it happened because they wanted another guy that they read 3 sentences about on the internet.

 

Don't mean to embarrass anyone at all. Just for reference:

 

http://www.njdevs.co...+adam +henrique


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#543 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 11:22 AM

It's just common sense that if a player is a goon in junior, he'll likely be a goon when he eventually works his way to the ECHL. It's also common sense that a player who puts up a lot of points in junior is more likely to be able to do that than someone that doesn't.

Now the latter does not necessarily separate a player like Point (who scored a ton) over Quenneville (who scored less, but still plenty), and that's why, as of Friday night, I wasn't too down on the front office. But it does mean that's it's better to take a shot on Point (who people with actual scouting experience gave a first round ranking) over someone who doesn't project to be any more than a grinder if he ever makes it to the NHL (Chatham). It also means that you take a shot on players in the latter rounds who have some offensive upside, over players that are just a complete waste of space.

It's also common sense that you should be very reluctant to take a defenseman with your second round pick when the system is overfilling with defensive prospects, who your own propaganda is saying should be in the NHL in the next one or two years (if they're not there already) for the foreseeable future. Especially when there is zero scoring ability in the system.

As I said, the biggest thing with Saturday is that it shows that Lou and Conte are oblivious to what is happening around them.


Maybe all that. Or they just know that none if these players will be affecting the Devils for at least 3 - 4 years so a log jam at defense now means nothing to the make up of the team.

These guys spent years studying these players. They probably know more about their potential and skills then what we learned from stat lines and YouTube videos. I'm not thrilled with some of these picks but I'm aware that thought went into them. Having a vision you don't agree with doesn't make them oblivious.
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#544 sundstrom

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 11:24 AM

Don't mean to embarrass anyone at all. Just for reference:

http://www.njdevs.co...+adam +henrique


The best part of that thread was Tri and me saying they should go for "safe picks" when now we're asking for high risk, high reward.

As for henrique, he is a character forward that has turned out to be a similar player to what was forecasted. What's funny is he's not that much of a playmaker and is more an all around player that's probably going to score a bit more than was expected.
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#545 SterioDesign

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:00 PM

Maybe all that. Or they just know that none if these players will be affecting the Devils for at least 3 - 4 years so a log jam at defense now means nothing to the make up of the team.

These guys spent years studying these players. They probably know more about their potential and skills then what we learned from stat lines and YouTube videos. I'm not thrilled with some of these picks but I'm aware that thought went into them. Having a vision you don't agree with doesn't make them oblivious.

 

In a logic world yes that would make sense. But we're talking Devils world here. Where a bottom 3 goalie gets important games over a top 3 goalie. Where a top 4 pick who needs to play is sitting while 2 horrible dman are playing over him. playing 2 goons over josefson against teams with zero goons etc etc etc etc we all know the drill. 

 

Lou, Conte and Deboer all have one thing in common. they are incredibly and beyond belief stubbornn and will stick to their guns no matter what the consequences are. Thats hard to deny. Just like anything. When you always bet on black, you're gonna win thats for sure its 50/50.

 

People can go on and on about how Lou built a winning team in the past. Yes it was awesome and all... but just like if Mario Lemieux was still playing... no matter what he did when he was in his prime... if he'd go 45 turnovers during the first 20 minutes... still fair to point it out.

 

Yes he built a great team but once we had our core down. Its wayyyyyyyy easier to keep it running even if you make mistakes. Now we dont have a great core and his mistakes or bad decisions are showing a lot more


Edited by SterioDesign, 29 June 2014 - 12:26 PM.

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#546 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:20 PM

In a logic world yes that would make sense. But we're talking Devils world here. Where a bottom 3 goalie gets important games over a top 3 goalie. Where a top 4 pick who needs to play is sitting while 2 horrible dman are playing over him. playing 2 goons over josefson against teams with zero goons etc etc etc etc we all know the drill. 

 

Lou, Conte and Deboer all have one thing in common. they are incredibly and beyond belief stubbornn and will stick to their guns no matter what the consequences are. Thats hard to deny. Just like anything. When you always bet on black, you're gonna win thats for sure its 50/50.

 

People can go on and on about how Lou built a winning team in the past. Yes it was awesome and all... but just like if Mario Lemieux was still playing... no matter what he did when he was in his prime... if he'd go 45 turnovers during the first 20 minutes... still fair to point it out.

 

Yes he built a great team but once we had our core down. Its wayyyyyyyy easier to keep it running even if you make mistakes. Now we dont have a great core and his mistakes or bad decisions are showing a lot more

 

Maybe he's rebuilding a core, and maybe that takes years? It took him 7 years to build that first Cup team, after all. 


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#547 SterioDesign

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:27 PM

Maybe he's rebuilding a core, and maybe that takes years? It took him 7 years to build that first Cup team, after all. 

 

you'd like to think Larsson would be in that core but no... he played 2 old turds over him all year.


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#548 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:37 PM

you'd like to think Larsson would be in that core but no... he played 2 old turds over him all year.

 

Well, no. Mark Fayne played over Larsson most of the year. That's who has the same game as Larsson. And you act like a 21 year old playing big minutes in the AHL is somehow bad or a demotion. It's good for his development and good for his experience. 


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#549 MadDog2020

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:40 PM

Well, no. Mark Fayne played over Larsson most of the year. That's who has the same game as Larsson. And you act like a 21 year old playing big minutes in the AHL is somehow bad or a demotion. It's good for his development and good for his experience.

It would've been quite entertaining if this board existed in the early days of Nieds' career. He got more sh!t from the fans than Larsson early on. Worked out okay.
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#550 '7'

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:44 PM

It would've been quite entertaining if this board existed in the early days of Nieds' career. He got more sh!t from the fans than Larsson early on. Worked out okay.

 

He did, but Lemaire also got a fair amount of blame for not letting Nieds take more chances.


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#551 SterioDesign

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:46 PM

Well, no. Mark Fayne played over Larsson most of the year. That's who has the same game as Larsson. And you act like a 21 year old playing big minutes in the AHL is somehow bad or a demotion. It's good for his development and good for his experience. 

 

you're missing my point here. Are you saying Larsson shouldnt be playing over at least one of Sal or Volch? 

 

Larsson decided to leave his bonus on the table when he got drafted cause we were in a bad spot and it would help the team and it would also helped him playing in the NHL right away. And there he was doing great with Gelinas and he got stuck in the AHL for the rest of the season. He can't be happy about that seeing those 2 old farts playing over him.


Edited by SterioDesign, 29 June 2014 - 01:48 PM.

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#552 MadDog2020

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:52 PM

He did, but Lemaire also got a fair amount of blame for not letting Nieds take more chances.

True, Lemaire did get flack for that. But I remember soooo many fans wanting to trade Nieds. It was ridiculous how impatient people were being. The moral of the story is that defensemen take a long time to develop. Larsson just recently became legally able to drink. People need to relax about his development.
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#553 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:57 PM

you're missing my point here. Are you saying Larsson shouldnt be playing over at least one of Sal or Volch? 

 

No, I'm saying Larsson has a different role and is being primed to play bigger minutes. He's going to be getting Andy Greene level minutes eventually. You always talk about "big picture". Well, this is big picture. Larsson should be a cornerstone of the Devils blue line for the next 10-15 years. It's best for him to develop correctly. A top pair of him and Merrill should be great in a few years. 

 

I'd like Sal gone. I loved him in 2012 even before the playoff run and I have a feeling he's a big piece of the locker room and the leadership, but he's deteriorated on the ice and it's not worth it.  Volch at least has some worth. He's just not worth 4 million a year. 


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#554 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 02:43 PM

The only pick I hate is Brandon Baddock and even he fills a need at the AHL level. If he turns out to be a spare 4th line enforcer who can skate than this pick is still a bonus.

 

If NJ can pick up Sekac then this becomes a productive offseason for restocking our cupboard. 


Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 29 June 2014 - 02:54 PM.

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#555 RizzMB30

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:46 PM

The only pick I hate is Brandon Baddock and even he fills a need at the AHL level. If he turns out to be a spare 4th line enforcer who can skate than this pick is still a bonus.

 

If NJ can pick up Sekac then this becomes a productive offseason for restocking our cupboard. 

I still want Sekac preetty bad.  I'd love for him to sign his ELC with us. 


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#556 SMantzas

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:52 PM

Why is everyone enamored with Sekac. Good, not great numbers in the KHL...guess he's young though
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#557 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:57 PM

Why is everyone enamored with Sekac. Good, not great numbers in the KHL...guess he's young though

Not many 21 year olds ever put up better numbers than Sekac in the KHL.


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#558 thefiestygoat

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 04:41 PM

Why is everyone enamored with Sekac. Good, not great numbers in the KHL...guess he's young though

I'm in support of signing Sekac since he has upside and the Devils could use a prospect like him, but like you mentioned, I'm not necessarily enamored with him. I think he's more likely to end up being a solid AHL player than a NHL guy. That's not to say they shouldn't take a chance on him or he won't make it but we only have 1 breakout year in the KHL to really judge him.


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#559 CarpathianForest

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 04:43 PM

I'm in support of signing Sekac since he has upside and the Devils could use a prospect like him, but like you mentioned, I'm not necessarily enamored with him. I think he's more likely to end up being a solid AHL player than a NHL guy. That's not to say they shouldn't take a chance on him or he won't make it but we only have 1 breakout year in the KHL to really judge him.

 

Sounds Brunneresque.


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#560 devilsrule33

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:49 PM

A lot of people here are down on the Devils draft and their strategy. Quite a few people have been saying the same thing for a few years. Now no one here is an expert but it isn't fair to criticize posters for questioning Conte and co.

 

http://www.njdevs.co...=46351&hl=round


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