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#41 PWW

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:53 PM

I've seen Bleackley play a bit. Would love to see him in NJ. He has a great shot.


Edited by PWW, 08 April 2014 - 09:53 PM.

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#42 SMantzas

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:55 PM

NJ will have 2 picks in the first 40 picks.  Would love to land 2 of Bleackley, Lemieux, Karlsson, Fiala, Ho-Sang and Tuch


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#43 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:21 AM

Piece on Thathcher Demko.

 

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=712863

 

Kimmleman was also talking about him on NHL Radio this morning.  If he's the best player available, it would be very tempting to select him, even if Schneider is extended to a long term deal.  You think about the kind of deal Anaheim could have gotten for Gibson, or what you might expect Boston and Tampa could get for Subban and Vasilevski, respectively. 

 

Since he already has a year in a top college program under his belt, it would seem that he's a better bet than your average goalie draft prospect. 


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#44 sundstrom

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:28 AM

taking a goalie is just not something the devils can afford to do - you can get them all over the place. as long as they are not marty bad, you can live with an average goalie if you have to as long as you make up for it elsewhere.

 

these two picks have to be forwards with a pedigree for scoring. this can't be another matteau type player and don't take another defenseman unless you're dealing 2 of the ones we have now for forwards (the kid defensemen i mean).


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#45 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:46 AM

taking a goalie is just not something the devils can afford to do - you can get them all over the place. as long as they are not marty bad, you can live with an average goalie if you have to as long as you make up for it elsewhere.

 

these two picks have to be forwards with a pedigree for scoring. this can't be another matteau type player and don't take another defenseman unless you're dealing 2 of the ones we have now for forwards (the kid defensemen i mean).

 

I'm not a scout, but we're picking 30th in what is supposed to be a weak draft.  Most of the teams drafting before us could also use scorers (every team can), which leads me to believe that there won't be anything great available in that department, especially someone that could be of any use in the next three years.  If Demko continues to play well, he's a much better trade piece than players like Boucher, Matteau would be now, or someone like Josefson when people thought he would be a pretty good player. 

 

Let me put it this way, right now, I would guess that Vasilevksi, who is positively tearing things up in the KHL as a 19 year old, could probably be the centerpiece in a deal that lands one of Edmonton's young forwards, or even someone like Evander Kane.  You could probably say the same thing about Gibson as well.  Seems a lot less likely that the best forward available at 30 would have that kind of impact. 


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#46 sundstrom

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:12 AM

I'm not a scout, but we're picking 30th in what is supposed to be a weak draft.  Most of the teams drafting before us could also use scorers (every team can), which leads me to believe that there won't be anything great available in that department, especially someone that could be of any use in the next three years.  If Demko continues to play well, he's a much better trade piece than players like Boucher, Matteau would be now, or someone like Josefson when people thought he would be a pretty good player. 

 

Let me put it this way, right now, I would guess that Vasilevksi, who is positively tearing things up in the KHL as a 19 year old, could probably be the centerpiece in a deal that lands one of Edmonton's young forwards, or even someone like Evander Kane.  You could probably say the same thing about Gibson as well.  Seems a lot less likely that the best forward available at 30 would have that kind of impact. 

 

absolutely ZERO chance either of those guys are the centerpiece of a deal for one of EDM's scorers. they could be part of it, i suppose. but edmonton just signed two goalies for two years to see if they hit gold. the kids are going for ready to play defensemen.


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#47 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:22 AM

absolutely ZERO chance either of those guys are the centerpiece of a deal for one of EDM's scorers. they could be part of it, i suppose. but edmonton just signed two goalies for two years to see if they hit gold. the kids are going for ready to play defensemen.

 

Gibson is certainly a more valuable trade chip than Larsson is now.  Vasilevski might prove to be, if he isn't there already.  We're always talking about trading Larsson for this or that.  Those scenarios become a lot more realistic if you have a goalie prospect that appears to be a real deal.


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#48 SMantzas

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:36 AM

Gibson is certainly a more valuable trade chip than Larsson is now.  Vasilevski might prove to be, if he isn't there already.  We're always talking about trading Larsson for this or that.  Those scenarios become a lot more realistic if you have a goalie prospect that appears to be a real deal.

Gibson is basically the best case scenario for Demko. Goalies are generally a crapshoot and we have a young(ish) elite goalie in Schneider.  Assuming CS's extension take him to 2022, I'd rather worry about finding a young netminder in 2018/19. We have basically zero in our prospect pool up front and we need to buy more lottery tickets there, instead of in net


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#49 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:46 AM

Gibson is basically the best case scenario for Demko. Goalies are generally a crapshoot and we have a young(ish) elite goalie in Schneider.  Assuming CS's extension take him to 2022, I'd rather worry about finding a young netminder in 2018/19. We have basically zero in our prospect pool up front and we need to buy more lottery tickets there, instead of in net

 

Like I say, I'm not a scout.  But Demko seems to be a much safer bet than your average goaltending draft prospect, considering that he's played very well at the college level as an 18-19 year old. 

 

Yes we need forwards, but the odds suggest that whatever forward is available will, at best, end up being a top nine kind of forward in 3-4 years.  We were able to get just that at the trade deadline for a lot less with Ruutu.  If we get the best case scenario out of Demko, he could be traded for a top six forward within the same amount of time. 

 

The other thing that might help is that we're probably picking between 40 and 42.  My guess is that there's not a huge difference between the best forward you could get at 30, and what will be available with the next pick. 


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#50 Triumph

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 11:35 AM

There is no such thing as a safe bet in net in the draft.  And you wildly overestimate how much goalies are worth in trade.  Please name 3 goalies who've been traded for position players that are A: young and B: generally deemed to be pretty good in the last 10 years.


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#51 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 12:27 PM

There is no such thing as a safe bet in net in the draft.  And you wildly overestimate how much goalies are worth in trade.  Please name 3 goalies who've been traded for position players that are A: young and B: generally deemed to be pretty good in the last 10 years.

 

There's no such thing as a safe bet at any position with the 30th overall, or at least anyone that is going to be any better than an average NHLer.  Better than nothing I suppose, but it's not a huge calamity if you miss out on a Brian Boyle type player at that stage.  So far as goalies are concerned though, Demko is a safer bet than a typical goalie that gets picked in that range, or at least it appears that way, for the reasons I stated.  You can't really say with a straight face that Matteau would get you a better return than Vasilevski right now. 

 

And history has shown us you can get a good return for a young goalie that, 4 years or less after being drafted,  whether it's a player or another pick.  Schneider easily could have.  Varlomov was traded for a first and a second, the first round pick being the 11th overall/Filip Forsberg.  Luongo, 3 years after being drafted brought back a young forward that scored 25 goals that year. 

 

I also think that Anaheim could trade Gibson and another good prospect, for a players like Kane, Eberle, and maybe RNH.  And I guarantee you that Long Island would have traded Vanek plus a pretty good player for him.  And even if I'm wrong, he would certainly yield a better return right now than half of the players that were picked in the first round of his draft year, including probably Larsson. 


Edited by Daniel, 09 April 2014 - 12:28 PM.

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#52 Triumph

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 12:55 PM

There's no such thing as a safe bet at any position with the 30th overall, or at least anyone that is going to be any better than an average NHLer.  Better than nothing I suppose, but it's not a huge calamity if you miss out on a Brian Boyle type player at that stage.  So far as goalies are concerned though, Demko is a safer bet than a typical goalie that gets picked in that range, or at least it appears that way, for the reasons I stated.  You can't really say with a straight face that Matteau would get you a better return than Vasilevski right now. 

 

And history has shown us you can get a good return for a young goalie that, 4 years or less after being drafted,  whether it's a player or another pick.  Schneider easily could have.  Varlomov was traded for a first and a second, the first round pick being the 11th overall/Filip Forsberg.  Luongo, 3 years after being drafted brought back a young forward that scored 25 goals that year. 

 

I also think that Anaheim could trade Gibson and another good prospect, for a players like Kane, Eberle, and maybe RNH.  And I guarantee you that Long Island would have traded Vanek plus a pretty good player for him.  And even if I'm wrong, he would certainly yield a better return right now than half of the players that were picked in the first round of his draft year, including probably Larsson. 

 

You have mentioned one example, which by the way did not happen in the last 10 years, and was not goalie for player (Jokinen was also in the trade and not long removed from being a 3rd overall pick).  The rest have been goalies for picks, and this is absolutely critical.  You can't say that picks are of equal value to certain players - they may be theoretically, but a pick means something much, much different than a player.

 

There is almost no chance that John Gibson would be the centerpiece for a top forward like Kane or Eberle.  He's just not proven.  By the time he is proven, he will be too close to UFA to be worth a boatload, or Anaheim will want to keep him.


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#53 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 01:45 PM

You have mentioned one example, which by the way did not happen in the last 10 years, and was not goalie for player (Jokinen was also in the trade and not long removed from being a 3rd overall pick).  The rest have been goalies for picks, and this is absolutely critical.  You can't say that picks are of equal value to certain players - they may be theoretically, but a pick means something much, much different than a player.

 

There is almost no chance that John Gibson would be the centerpiece for a top forward like Kane or Eberle.  He's just not proven.  By the time he is proven, he will be too close to UFA to be worth a boatload, or Anaheim will want to keep him.

 

I bet that Gibson and Emerson Etem could land Kane, Eberle or RNH.  You might have to give it another year though.  Gibson on his own could probably get you any forward on the Islanders not named Tavares. 

 

EDIT:  Really, in the end, all I'm saying is that Demko is an intriguing prospect at 30, and that he appears to be good enough that I wouldn't be upset about it notwithstanding other needs the team has. 


Edited by Daniel, 09 April 2014 - 01:57 PM.

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#54 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 01:58 PM

One last question about Demko and I'll let it rest.  Has there ever been a goalie that became draft eligible after his first year of NCAA where he was the number 1 goalie as a freshman?


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#55 Marshall

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:06 PM

Draft more Swedes.


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#56 Daniel

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:11 PM

Draft more Swedes.

 

Jakub Vrana is a Czech playing in the Swedish Elite League.  Does that count?


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#57 Marshall

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:22 PM

Jakub Vrana is a Czech playing in the Swedish Elite League.  Does that count?

 

Sounds like Petr Vrana so let's not go there again. I've seen a fair bit of Lucas Wallmark and Viktor Arvidsson this year. I wonder if they could be had with any of the mid/later picks. Not sure where undrafted (previously passed over) kids like that fall in the rankings.


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#58 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:37 PM

With us picking at 30 in this draft, I can't see Lou taking anything other than the best player available on the Devils draft board at the time.  We definitely need goal scorers more than anything, but it won't change Lou's philosophy.


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#59 AEWHistory

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:47 PM

Draft more Swedes.

 

And Russians.... preferably homesick ones... 


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#60 Marshall

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:33 AM

And Russians.... preferably homesick ones... 

 

Let's draft more Americans. They never want to go to their home state and play for that team. 


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