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Fantastic News! Devils predicted to finish near the bottom


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#21 devlman

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:14 PM

Typical lazy journalism. Rinse and repeat.

 

I firmly believe the Devils will comfortably make the playoffs and possibly go far. This is the most depth ive seen on this team in many years. And, goaltending shouldnt be an issue this year for a change.


Edited by devlman, 25 September 2013 - 11:18 PM.

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#22 grcenter47

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:04 AM

weren't the devils predicted to be close to last in '11-'12?

 

english majors shouldn't write sport columns


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#23 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:15 AM

This is the 2002-03 team reincarnated. Two years removed from losing in the Final, big names leave, scrappy players enter. If DeBo can push buttons half as well as Burnsie did, then this team could surprise a lot of people.


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#24 moustic

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:25 AM

This is the 2002-03 team reincarnated. Two years removed from losing in the Final, big names leave, scrappy players enter. If DeBo can push buttons half as well as Burnsie did, then this team could surprise a lot of people.

 

Minus #4 and #27

slighty important players ; ) 


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#25 NJDevs4978

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:47 AM

Minus #4 and #27

slighty important players ; ) 

 

Don't let facts get in the way of preseason optomism :lol:


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#26 thelastonealive

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:12 AM

weren't the devils predicted to be close to last in '11-'12?

 

english majors shouldn't write sport columns

 

HEY! Lay off us English majors, we have life hard enough as it is - spending all that money on a very expensive piece of paper for no good reason!


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#27 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:24 AM

If the Devils hadn't gotten Schneider, then I could definitely see the potential for a blow-up type season...but a rag like SI isn't going to do a whole lot of research on each team anyway...the writer probably took a quick look at the arrivals and departures, immediately focused on Kovy leaving, and the signing of Jagr (because he's the "biggest" and best-known name), and made his prediction accordingly. 

 

If someone wants to predict the Devils are going to finish second-to-last in their conference, fine...but tell the whole story, and support the prediction with fleshed-out ideas.  Don't just completely leave out the acquisition of Schneider (clearly a VERY big deal) or guys like Ryder and Clowe.  Don't make it sound like the only move Lou made to fortify the team was to sign Jagr.  That blurb about the Devils sounds like it was written by some casual Rangers fan who barely follows the NHL.  Like I said, I don't have a problem with the prediction...just the way it was made.  I get the feeling if you mentioned some of the names the Devils brought in to the author, he'd have no idea what you were talking about.   


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#28 Triumph

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:32 AM

And that's what's upsetting, because for all the talk of Kovalchuk and Clarkson, neither's on-ice goal rates over the last two years at even strength are any good.  They score, their linemates don't, so how much offense are the Devils really losing with those two walking?  Now it's a little ridiculous to hold Tedenby and Carter's awfulness against Clarkson, but I think both those guys are better than what they showed as his linemate at the beginning of 11-12.  There's a pretty strong argument for Clarkson not making his teammates better and we know Kovalchuk is at best break-even and at worst a tire fire at even strength.  

 

The power play will likely be worse, but on the other hand it can't get much worse anyway.

 

As for the 2003 comparisons, that team wouldn't even come close to fitting under a salary cap, so let's do away with that.


Edited by Triumph, 26 September 2013 - 07:36 AM.

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#29 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:37 AM

And that's what's upsetting, because for all the talk of Kovalchuk and Clarkson, neither's on-ice goal rates over the last two years at even strength are any good.  They score, their linemates don't, so how much offense are the Devils really losing with those two walking?  Now it's a little ridiculous to hold Tedenby and Carter's awfulness against Clarkson, but I think both those guys are better than what they showed as his linemate at the beginning of 11-12.  There's a pretty strong argument for Clarkson not making his teammates better and we know Kovalchuk is at best break-even and at worst a tire fire at even strength.  

 

The power play will likely be worse, but on the other hand it can't get much worse anyway.

 

This is what I mean.  All the author saw was a couple of names leaving and nothing more...he doesn't even really know what those names actually DO on the ice.  That's why I can't take those predictions all that seriously.  Like I said, make a detailed case backed up with knowledge and facts as to why you think the Devils are going to be a trainwreck, and I'll at least listen.  But this guy probably can't tell you much about the Devils beyond what was written, which makes his prediction a complete farce, regardless of where he has them finishing. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#30 Devilsfan118

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:58 AM

Good, excellent.  I love when the Devils aren't predicted to do well - they almost alway surprise anyway.

 

Barring any serious injuries, I think this team should be right in the mix for the playoffs.  So much depth..sure they lack that dynamic #1 winger and/or center, but they will have 4 absolutely solid lines to roll night in and night out.


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#31 StormJosh

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:09 AM

Good, excellent.  I love when the Devils aren't predicted to do well - they almost alway surprise anyway.
 
Barring any serious injuries, I think this team should be right in the mix for the playoffs.  So much depth..sure they lack that dynamic #1 winger and/or center, but they will have 4 absolutely solid lines to roll night in and night out.


You are assuming that Barch and Jannsen don't make up a spot on the 4th line. As soon as one of them is dressed we lose the ability to roll 4 solid lines.
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#32 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:17 AM

Minus #4 and #27

slighty important players ; ) 

 

Still got #26 and #30.


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#33 Daniel

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:20 AM

If the Devils hadn't gotten Schneider, then I could definitely see the potential for a blow-up type season...but a rag like SI isn't going to do a whole lot of research on each team anyway...the writer probably took a quick look at the arrivals and departures, immediately focused on Kovy leaving, and the signing of Jagr (because he's the "biggest" and best-known name), and made his prediction accordingly. 

 

If someone wants to predict the Devils are going to finish second-to-last in their conference, fine...but tell the whole story, and support the prediction with fleshed-out ideas.  Don't just completely leave out the acquisition of Schneider (clearly a VERY big deal) or guys like Ryder and Clowe.  Don't make it sound like the only move Lou made to fortify the team was to sign Jagr.  That blurb about the Devils sounds like it was written by some casual Rangers fan who barely follows the NHL.  Like I said, I don't have a problem with the prediction...just the way it was made.  I get the feeling if you mentioned some of the names the Devils brought in to the author, he'd have no idea what you were talking about.   

 

I think it also has something to do with the fact that some of the people that write these previews still think that Marty is a top ten goalie, on reputation alone, and can't see how much of an upgrade Schneider ought to be. 


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#34 Devilsfan118

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:22 AM

You are assuming that Barch and Jannsen don't make up a spot on the 4th line. As soon as one of them is dressed we lose the ability to roll 4 solid lines.

 

Oh yes, you're definitely right.  It would be downright criminal to have Barch and/or Cam stealing 4th line minutes from one of the other guys on the team.  Keep Barch around for the Flyers and Rangers (and maybe Isles) - that's it, as far as I'm concerned. 


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#35 Daniel

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:24 AM

You are assuming that Barch and Jannsen don't make up a spot on the 4th line. As soon as one of them is dressed we lose the ability to roll 4 solid lines.

 

A pure goon type will only dress maybe 40 games, and then get maybe 5-6 minutes of ice time a game.  You end up giving a few extra shifts to some other players, and it makes up the difference.  Coincidentally, this is one area where the Devils will miss Kovalchuk, although, to be fair, it's largely a product of the perceived need to keep an enforcer around.


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#36 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:30 AM

Good, excellent.  I love when the Devils aren't predicted to do well - they almost alway surprise anyway.

 

Barring any serious injuries, I think this team should be right in the mix for the playoffs.  So much depth..sure they lack that dynamic #1 winger and/or center, but they will have 4 absolutely solid lines to roll night in and night out.

 

To me, this team has an "anything can happen" feel to it, it really does.  I remember all of the optimism many of us had going into the 2010-11 season...hoping for good things from  Rolston (finally), re-signing Kovalchuk, bringing back Arnott, signing Volchenkov and Tallinder...granted, this team is in MUCH better shape, in nets and behind the bench, then that team was, but we've definitely seen how these things sometimes simply don't come together on the ice. 

 

I'd be stunned if anything close to 10-11 came to fruition, but there's not too much that would surprise me.  Only way I see this team really struggling badly is if Schneider isn't stopping pucks, but as long as he plays the way we think he will, the Devils should be in a lot of games. 

 

 

I think it also has something to do with the fact that some of the people that write these previews still think that Marty is a top ten goalie, on reputation alone, and can't see how much of an upgrade Schneider ought to be. 

 

Probably a lot of truth to that.  That author is probably less knowledgable about the Devils than 90% of the posters here.  I don't think this guy and other casual NHL observers realize that, if by the end of November, Schneider's around .920 in save% and Brodeur's in the .890s, and Schneider is clearly the guy keeping the Devils in games and giving them the best chance to win, DeBoer is not going let nostalgia get in the way of winning hockey games.  The .9046 overall save% Marty's managed the past three years is flat-out pretty bad...heaven forbid the author even mention that Schneider is at .927 for his career...or even mention Schneider at all.       


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 26 September 2013 - 08:31 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#37 sundstrom

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:36 AM


 

As for the 2003 comparisons, that team wouldn't even come close to fitting under a salary cap, so let's do away with that.

 

 i am intrigued to do this exercise. You assume that they're all getting paid as if they were UFA's the year before (i assume). you're not going by real salary because even then, i think they were under - comfortably so. only stevens was making real big dollars then. then again, i'm not sure if you're going to give them a '03 level cap of $35MM. that team did not have a ton of expensive players. marty, stevens, neidermayer were the only ones making serious money. elias hadn't gotten a big deal yet. langenbrunner, freisen, neiuwendyk - not that big. gomez was not making big money yet.


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#38 Triumph

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:59 AM

 i am intrigued to do this exercise. You assume that they're all getting paid as if they were UFA's the year before (i assume). you're not going by real salary because even then, i think they were under - comfortably so. only stevens was making real big dollars then. then again, i'm not sure if you're going to give them a '03 level cap of $35MM. that team did not have a ton of expensive players. marty, stevens, neidermayer were the only ones making serious money. elias hadn't gotten a big deal yet. langenbrunner, freisen, neiuwendyk - not that big. gomez was not making big money yet.

 

I am not assuming that a salary cap gets imposed over the Devils' salaries as they were then, though I think you're forgetting that NJ was right around 10th in the league in salary at the time.  I am assuming that the salary cap, with its attendant conditions (UFA at 27, arbitration after 4 years service, etc.) is in place.

 

Looking at this way, Niedermayer Rafalski Brodeur and Stevens are all UFA age, Elias is arbitration-eligible, Friesen is UFA age, Tverdovsky is UFA age, Sykora is UFA age - it changes the entire dynamics of everything that happened, sure, but my point is that's a pretty high salary team all things considered.  Madden is UFA age, Pandolfo is UFA age.

 

Here's a helpful link:  http://content.usato...s/salaries/2002 - this has them at around $50M.


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#39 Brandon

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:17 AM

they still overinflate Volchenkov based on his Ottawa days and Larsson's like an 83 I think or something and so's Zidlicky so that already's more than most other teams

Greene (83) - Larsson (82)
Volchenkov (83) - Zidlicky (80)
Salvador (79) - Fayne (81)
Harrold (77)

Edited by Brandon, 26 September 2013 - 10:22 AM.

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#40 sundstrom

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:23 AM

I am not assuming that a salary cap gets imposed over the Devils' salaries as they were then, though I think you're forgetting that NJ was right around 10th in the league in salary at the time.  I am assuming that the salary cap, with its attendant conditions (UFA at 27, arbitration after 4 years service, etc.) is in place.

 

Looking at this way, Niedermayer Rafalski Brodeur and Stevens are all UFA age, Elias is arbitration-eligible, Friesen is UFA age, Tverdovsky is UFA age, Sykora is UFA age - it changes the entire dynamics of everything that happened, sure, but my point is that's a pretty high salary team all things considered.  Madden is UFA age, Pandolfo is UFA age.

 

Here's a helpful link:  http://content.usato...s/salaries/2002 - this has them at around $50M.

 

it's a very difficult exercise because, if there was a cap, then salaries might have been different. richard shmelik was a late season acquisition. some guys on that list played very little. and sykora wasn't around even though you mentioned him. if you want to argue that building the 99-00 team would be a tall order in today's dollars and salary cap, i can get behind that because that team had many more guys that would've been getting serious dollars in today's market/cap.


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20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)





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