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2013-14 OOT Thread


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#421 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:21 PM

i dont think the solution is to trade one of those 2, they are part of the long term solutions IMO.

 

That being said... after them we have nothing to trade and even in our lineup we dont have much values. We're in a very very bad spot to regain scoring for the next few years. But thats 100% on Lou and no one else

 

Not Lou's fault that Kovalchuk bailed on the team.

 

He re-signed both Zajac and Henrique to long-term deals BEFORE THEY WENT UFA, but both haven't been scoring (though it's arguable how much either player should have been expected to score).  He re-signed Elias.

 

He tried to recover from Kovy the best that he could by signing guys who at least had shown the ability to score previously (Jagr and Ryder).  He took a gamble on Brunner.

 

Clearly it's not working from an offensive standpoint, and it sucks that a guy who looked like he might be able to score in Tedenby looks like he's going to be a bust.  Unfortunately the Devils aren't getting much help from their prospects, as far as forwards who can score goes. 

 

But what would you rather he had done? 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#422 SterioDesign

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:26 PM

Not Lou's fault that Kovalchuk bailed on the team.

He re-signed both Zajac and Henrique to long-term deals BEFORE THEY WENT UFA, but both haven't been scoring (though it's arguable how much either player should have been expected to score). He re-signed Elias.

He tried to recover from Kovy the best that he could by signing guys who at least had shown the ability to score previously (Jagr and Ryder). He took a gamble on Brunner.

Clearly it's not working from an offensive standpoint, and it sucks that a guy who looked like he might be able to score in Tedenby looks like he's going to be a bust. Unfortunately the Devils aren't getting much help from their prospects, as far as forwards who can score goes.

But what would you rather he had done?

He should have deal with clarkson earlier and trade him once he would have figured how ridiculous of a contract he wanted. We cant use the "in the run" excuse every single time(where did that get us?), you have to look long term too and adjust.

Then first dont keep the 29th pick. And if you do dont draft a 3rd line winger from the juniors.

Then if you have a shot at an early 2nd round pick whos a scorer, dont trade down to pick up a fvcking defensive dman.

I mean. If you have a team with a sh!t ton of scoring prospects, go nuts and pull moves like that, you can afford it.

I wont even talk about zach either.

Yes he signed free agents to fill holes, holes that were left not cause he let guys walk. Holes cause his plan didnt work.

So thats what i would have wanted him to do. So now why dont we keep it there and not argue about something we both already went over 45 times? Whats the point? We dont have the same vision. Ill get this clear, i didnt want to trade zach or clarkson. But now, if i could go back in time id fvcking do it for both. Yeah we can bring up the cup run, it was awesome but we didnt win. We didnt win and were crippled in scoring for years after losing 30 goals scorers. So theres days that i think id take a first round exit that year and still have wtv assets we could have got for those 2. Wed have something to look forward to at least.

Again, if you dont agree. Fine. We dont have to fight over it. I like horror movies and punk rock, my mother doesnt, we dont argue about it every time we talk either.

Edited by SterioDesign, 03 December 2013 - 06:55 PM.

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#423 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:32 PM

I know you don't see it this way, but you use a LOT of 20/20 hindsight in your plans.
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#424 ATLL765

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:45 PM

He should have deal with clarkson earlier and trade him once he would have figured how ridiculous of a contract he wanted. We cant use the "in the run" excuse every single time(where did that get us?), you have to look long term too and adjust.

Then first dont keep the 29th pick. And if you do dont draft a 3rd line winger from the juniors.

Then if you have a shot at an early 2nd round pick whos a scorer, dont trade down to pick up a fvcking defensive dman.

I mean. If you have a team with a sh!t ton of scoring prospects, go nuts and pull moves like that, you can afford it.

I wont even talk about zach either.

Yes he signed free agents to fill holes, holes that were left not cause he let guys walk. Holes cause his plan didnt work.

So thats what i would have wanted him to do. So now why dont we keep it there and not argue about something we both already went over 45 times? Whats the point? We dont have the same vision. Ill get this clear, i didnt want to trade zach or clarkson. But now, if i could go back in time id fvcking do it for both. Yeah we can bring up the cup run, it was awesome but we didnt win. We didnt win and were crippled in scoring for years after losing 30 goals scorers. So theres days that i think id take a first round exit that year and still have wtv assets we could have got for those 2. Wed have something to look forward to at least.

Again, if you dont agree. Fine. We dont have to fight over it. I like horror movies and punk rock, my mother doesnt, we dont argue about it every time we talk either.

How could you ever justify the trading of a top scorer at the deadline when you're right in the middle of the race for the playoffs?


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#425 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:48 PM

I know you don't see it this way, but you use a LOT of 20/20 hindsight in your plans.

 

Pretty much this, just thought I'd see if he had any unique insights, but it's pretty much always the same thing...always has the answers well after the fact (though not giving up that 29th pick will forever be an odd move...it's just a really hard one to defend).  No way in hell I'm wishing we hadn't had that Cup run in 2011-12, even if it didn't result in the ultimate prize.  Beating the Flyers and the Rangers?  Henrique...it's over!  Great great memories.       


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#426 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:15 PM

Pretty much this, just thought I'd see if he had any unique insights, but it's pretty much always the same thing...always has the answers well after the fact (though not giving up that 29th pick will forever be an odd move...it's just a really hard one to defend). No way in hell I'm wishing we hadn't had that Cup run in 2011-12, even if it didn't result in the ultimate prize. Beating the Flyers and the Rangers? Henrique...it's over! Great great memories.


Yeah that 29th pick. That's the only move I really can't understand. But I don't think Matteau was a bad thing to get at 29th had it been a situation where we didn't need to forfeit.
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#427 RizzMB30

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:29 PM

Yeah that 29th pick. That's the only move I really can't understand. But I don't think Matteau was a bad thing to get at 29th had it been a situation where we didn't need to forfeit.

 

 

 

He should have deal with clarkson earlier and trade him once he would have figured how ridiculous of a contract he wanted. We cant use the "in the run" excuse every single time(where did that get us?), you have to look long term too and adjust.

Then first dont keep the 29th pick. And if you do dont draft a 3rd line winger from the juniors.

Then if you have a shot at an early 2nd round pick whos a scorer, dont trade down to pick up a fvcking defensive dman.
 

 

You have no idea what Matteau will turn into once he is fully matured, so you have no idea and cannot properly evaluate that pick at this time.  Tedenby, Josefson, Matteau, Santini, Severson, Merril.  These guys are still very young(maybe with the exclusion of Tedenby who is starting to push his luck and needs to produce).


Edited by RizzMB30, 03 December 2013 - 08:30 PM.

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#428 nessus

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:34 AM

Dude, Santini is starting to look like a really smart pick. We probably would have taken Dauphin with that pick if we didn't trade down, and who knows if Dauphin is going to turn into anything.

 

Santini looks like someone who almost definitely has an NHL career ahead of him, and I would take that any day over a player who isn't quite so dominant in the Q.

 

I do agree with you, though, about the 29th pick. I heard somewhere that Lou's reasoning was that he didn't want to go into a draft with not a single player in the top 50, but I don't understand that logic very much. We'll really know if it's a mistake after this season.


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#429 Marshall

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 03:31 AM

i didnt want to trade zach or clarkson. But now, if i could go back in time id fvcking do it for both. Yeah we can bring up the cup run, it was awesome but we didnt win. We didnt win and were crippled in scoring for years after losing 30 goals scorers. So theres days that i think id take a first round exit that year and still have wtv assets we could have got for those 2. Wed have something to look forward to at least.

 

Man, you're so goddamn intelligent and smart and clairvoyant with your hindsight. I wish Lou could use hindsight, then travel back in time and correct his mistakes. Just like you would, if you were a GM, because all your nonsense talk leads me to believe no-one could spout so much drivel and crap like you do without owning a time machine. 


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#430 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:42 AM

Man, you're so goddamn intelligent and smart and clairvoyant with your hindsight. I wish Lou could use hindsight, then travel back in time and correct his mistakes. Just like you would, if you were a GM, because all your nonsense talk leads me to believe no-one could spout so much drivel and crap like you do without owning a time machine. 

 

This is an OOT scoreboard thread, so after this I'm done with this subject, but once someone says he'd possibly have rather gone out in the first round than having enjoyed watching a fun run that saw them come up just two wins short of a Cup...who clearly doesn't understand that every single last Devil on that 2011-12 team would much rather have had that then to be one-and-done, even if it didn't culminate in hoisting the Cup...then he has zero credibility as a Devils fan.  Ask Elias and Brodeur if they would've traded in that run for a first-round exit, for a "brighter" future that may never come, when both players are clearly on the homestretch of their careers and will only have so many chances to win a championship.  Think they're sniveling "Well gee whiz, maybe Lou should've traded Parise for whatever he could've gotten, because winning 14 playoff games and playing the Stanley Cup Finals wasn't worth it, since we lost."?  The "well we tried, but didn't quite get there, so maybe we shouldn't have even tried at all" hindsight second-guessing is comically pathetic and weak. 

 

RizzMB30...you are right in that the Matteau story is still being written, but for a while, the keeping of the 29th pick will be a curious decision...it's just one of those moves that just seems so "huh?!" on the surface.  Maybe Lou saw something he liked in Matteau that much, and will be proved right in the end?  Who knows?      


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 04 December 2013 - 07:44 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#431 Daniel

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:07 AM


RizzMB30...you are right in that the Matteau story is still being written, but for a while, the keeping of the 29th pick will be a curious decision...it's just one of those moves that just seems so "huh?!" on the surface. Maybe Lou saw something he liked in Matteau that much, and will be proved right in the end? Who knows?



What I've heard/read, but can't remember where, Lou was hoping that Subban or the goalie that Tampa drafted would be available. Some mocks had them available, so it wasn't a completely unrealistic that either of them would be around at 29.

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#432 EdgeControl

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:09 AM

Yeah that 29th pick. That's the only move I really can't understand. But I don't think Matteau was a bad thing to get at 29th had it been a situation where we didn't need to forfeit.

this is the only big blunder, the chance to have a run at the cup was important for the franchise at the time. plus it was fun! too bad kovys back went out on him


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#433 Daniel

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:58 AM

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger 3m

Vague details. Hearing 7 years and $8+ mil per for Lundqvist.

 

AND

 

Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun 1m

As per @DarrenDreger, Henrik Lundqvist has reached agreement on an extension with the New York Rangers

 

AND NOW

 

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger 1m

7 years, $8.5 per is believed to Lundqvist's extension agreement.


Edited by Daniel, 04 December 2013 - 10:03 AM.

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#434 Marshall

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:04 AM

Those last 2-3 years could be veeeeeery ugly.


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#435 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:10 AM

Those last 2-3 years could be veeeeeery ugly.

 

That's pretty much true of all of those long-term deals.  They all have the potential to get ugly at the end...and the middle...and the beginning for that matter.  But at least Lundqvist has played in NY for a while and knows what comes with it...he won't be culture-shocked, and unlike Scott Gomez, he won't be surprised to see that NY has a Starbuck's on every corner, in case he needs to satisfy a latte jonesin'.  


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#436 dmann422

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:15 AM

Interesting timing... 8.5 mil makes him by far the highest paid goalie, but the rags needed to lock him up.

It's certainly no hometown discount, but their saving grace will be that the cap is expected to rise quite a bit over the next few years, so as long as he sustains his play it should be ok.
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#437 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:17 AM

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger 3m

Vague details. Hearing 7 years and $8+ mil per for Lundqvist.

 

AND

 

Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun 1m

As per @DarrenDreger, Henrik Lundqvist has reached agreement on an extension with the New York Rangers

 

AND NOW

 

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger 1m

7 years, $8.5 per is believed to Lundqvist's extension agreement.

 

Waiting for SD to say something along the lines of "Must be nice to have a GM that doesn't let their big UFA get to UFA" (even though the Devils did that with Brodeur in the past and others) in 5, 4, 3... 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#438 devilsrule33

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:19 AM

Good signing.

Edited by devilsrule33, 04 December 2013 - 10:19 AM.

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#439 Daniel

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:25 AM

 

Good signing.

 

 

You would expect him to be an average goalie in the last two years, but from the Rags standpoint, who cares right now. 

 

It would have been armageddon for them if he bolted after this year.  So really anything that ensures that he stays is a good deal for them.


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#440 Devilsfan118

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:40 AM

I mean, he's the only reason the Rangers have been remotely relevant for the past 5 years..but that's still a huge cap hit for a goalie.  Especially with Talbot showing he can play..

 

I say it's bought out in year 4 or 5.  But that seems to be the game plan with most of these long term deals.


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