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2013-14 OOT Thread


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#661 SterioDesign

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:10 PM

I mean yeah deboer is making weird and frustrating decisions. But the problem is higher than him. He can only do so much with the team he was given.

Not his fault our scouting/drafting in the last 10 years has been bad and that we lost 3 30 goal scorers within 2 years and had to patch up and make guys play bigger roles than they should. Plus the injuries.

Blame the financial problems, blame Lou, blame the lockout, wtv... Plenty of reasons we suck now but as much as hes pissing me off at times its not deboers fault we suck.
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#662 2ELIAS6

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:18 PM

I mean yeah deboer is making weird and frustrating decisions. But the problem is higher than him. He can only do so much with the team he was given.
Not his fault our scouting/drafting in the last 10 years has been bad and that we lost 3 30 goal scorers within 2 years and had to patch up and make guys play bigger roles than they should. Plus the injuries.
Blame the financial problems, blame Lou, blame the lockout, wtv... Plenty of reasons we suck now but as much as hes pissing me off at times its not deboers fault we suck.

i just think there werent many options and possibilities for lou to try to recover from the losses that the team had.. i think he pretty much did the best he could and a lot of people felt the team would be much better with the new additions then what they currently are... only so much you can do i guess.
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#663 Mike Brown

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:43 PM

DeBoer told TG earlier today that he was trying to think of ways to get the team to score more goals, so look for Gionta on the power play tomorrow.

 

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#664 SterioDesign

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:28 AM

i just think there werent many options and possibilities for lou to try to recover from the losses that the team had.. i think he pretty much did the best he could and a lot of people felt the team would be much better with the new additions then what they currently are... only so much you can do i guess.

 

Of course at that point there's just so much you can do and he did a decent job putting a roster together. But I was not talking about the "after" the losses.


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#665 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:39 AM

re: the lost "(3) 30 goal scorers"

 

One of them decided he didn't want to honor his contract anymore (and has scored 13 goals in 36 GP in the KHL this season, so no guarantee he would've lit it up here).

Another one enjoyed a fluke season a couple of years ago and may never reach 20 again, let alone 30.  He's now also grossly overpaid. 

Losing Parise was one of those perfect storm events and has been reviewed/analyzed/beaten to death multiple times.  Sure, right this minute it'd be great to have him.     

 

The only one who could probably be penciled in for 30 goals for sure at this point is Parise.  Not saying Kovy couldn't have done it, just that it wasn't going to be a sure thing going forward, crazy at that sounds (especially if his heart wasn't in being a Devil).   


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#666 ThreeCups

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:54 AM

re: the lost "(3) 30 goal scorers"

 

One of them decided he didn't want to honor his contract anymore (and has scored 13 goals in 36 GP in the KHL this season, so no guarantee he would've lit it up here).

Another one enjoyed a fluke season a couple of years ago and may never reach 20 again, let alone 30.  He's now also grossly overpaid. 

Losing Parise was one of those perfect storm events and has been reviewed/analyzed/beaten to death multiple times.  Sure, right this minute it'd be great to have him.     

 

The only one who could probably be penciled in for 30 goals for sure at this point is Parise.  Not saying Kovy couldn't have done it, just that it wasn't going to be a sure thing going forward, crazy at that sounds (especially if his heart wasn't in being a Devil).   

 

The Parise loss will sting me until we win another Cup

 

He was the perfect player to build a franchise around.

 

Sucks


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#667 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:09 AM

The Parise loss will sting me until we win another Cup

 

He was the perfect player to build a franchise around.

 

Sucks

 

His decline will be rough, and the Wild paid for a hell of a lot of decline years.  If Lou knew Ilya would wig out on him, Lou would've let him walk and that contract or something like it goes to Zach instead, but sh!t happens.  We'll never know fully if it was VBK that pushed for Ilya's return, but it doesn't matter now anyway.  Can't hit the rewind button.     

 

I think losing Parise stings Travis more than anyone else. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#668 SterioDesign

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:13 AM

re: the lost "(3) 30 goal scorers"

 

One of them decided he didn't want to honor his contract anymore (and has scored 13 goals in 36 GP in the KHL this season, so no guarantee he would've lit it up here).

Another one enjoyed a fluke season a couple of years ago and may never reach 20 again, let alone 30.  He's now also grossly overpaid. 

Losing Parise was one of those perfect storm events and has been reviewed/analyzed/beaten to death multiple times.  Sure, right this minute it'd be great to have him.     

 

The only one who could probably be penciled in for 30 goals for sure at this point is Parise.  Not saying Kovy couldn't have done it, just that it wasn't going to be a sure thing going forward, crazy at that sounds (especially if his heart wasn't in being a Devil).   

 

I can agree Zach was a perfect storm but even there i agree with TG that if Lou would have handled things differently and before that he'd still be a devil. (Thats from fvcking TG, not me ranting yet once more) And it all started from there really. 

 

Losing Zach exposed some of our players, Zajac and Henrique the most.

 

I'm not 100% convinced Kovy would have left if Zach was still here, from some of his quotes (or his sister/mother wtv) he kind of lost faith that this team would be a contender, to me he pretty much jumped ship.

 

Now Clarkson, he scored 30 for us and was on pace for something similar at some point last season and a bunch of our wins early in the season was because of him, never liked him but gotta give him credits there) but let's talk about double standards here uh... buddy was too fvcking useful to even consider trading him at the deadline. But now that he's gone he was a fluke and useless. Sure.

 

Lou had to figure out earlier what was Clarkson's contract expectations and figure he'd lose him cause he wanted too much and knowing we had no first pick next year try to get something for him. Sharks got 2 2nd for Clowe who didnt score for a year. We could have got a decent return for Clarkie instead of just giving up on him by the draft cause his demand was ridiculous. there's no fvcking excuses there, Lou simply didn't do his job there and that's it. You can try to convinced yourself all day long that Clarkson would not have fetch much and that we had no shot at the playoffs without him etc etc. We had him and still didn't made it and lost him. Those are facts and i called it.

 

and don't get me the "beat the dead horse" thing here. If you'd stop quoting me on every single of my posts i wouldn't come back at it so often.


Edited by SterioDesign, 09 January 2014 - 09:14 AM.

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#669 DevsMan84

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:21 AM

In time we will get another star player either through draft, trade or FA and we will start over again.

 

Just how these things go.


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#670 SterioDesign

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:25 AM

In time we will get another star player either through draft, trade or FA and we will start over again.

 

Just how these things go.

 

I like Schneider or at least i want to like him and it was a good move but man would Nichushkin being a good start for that... Jagr is raving about him.

 

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#671 DevsMan84

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:28 AM

I can agree Zach was a perfect storm but even there i agree with TG that if Lou would have handled things differently and before that he'd still be a devil. (Thats from fvcking TG, not me ranting yet once more) And it all started from there really. 

 

Losing Zach exposed some of our players, Zajac and Henrique the most.

 

I'm not 100% convinced Kovy would have left if Zach was still here, from some of his quotes (or his sister/mother wtv) he kind of lost faith that this team would be a contender, to me he pretty much jumped ship.

 

Now Clarkson, he scored 30 for us and was on pace for something similar at some point last season and a bunch of our wins early in the season was because of him, never liked him but gotta give him credits there) but let's talk about double standards here uh... buddy was too fvcking useful to even consider trading him at the deadline. But now that he's gone he was a fluke and useless. Sure.

 

Lou had to figure out earlier what was Clarkson's contract expectations and figure he'd lose him cause he wanted too much and knowing we had no first pick next year try to get something for him. Sharks got 2 2nd for Clowe who didnt score for a year. We could have got a decent return for Clarkie instead of just giving up on him by the draft cause his demand was ridiculous. there's no fvcking excuses there, Lou simply didn't do his job there and that's it. You can try to convinced yourself all day long that Clarkson would not have fetch much and that we had no shot at the playoffs without him etc etc. We had him and still didn't made it and lost him. Those are facts and i called it.

 

and don't get me the "beat the dead horse" thing here. If you'd stop quoting me on every single of my posts i wouldn't come back at it so often.

 

 

I blame JVB for losing Zach than Lou.  JVB put all his chips on Kovy and there was no way Lou would want 2 of those lifetime contracts on the books and no way JVB could afford it and would have made the Devils harder to sell.

 

It sounds like Lou still doesn't really talk much to the players during the season and I wish he would at least be a little more flexible on that.  Just even a brief meeting with these players during the season to get a feel at where each side is at and they can then leave it be until the season is over.  Many times I still read players giving quotes how they haven't heard at all from Lou about contract talks and its Feb/March in their final year of their contract.

 

I mean it couldn't hurt just to get a feel for each other before doing any serious negotiation.


I like Schneider or at least i want to like him and it was a good move but man would Nichushkin being a good start for that... Jagr is raving about him.

 

http://www.nj.com/de...r_predicts.html

 

Devils needed to fix goaltending and scoring this off-season the most.  If they stuck with the pick they might have fixed their scoring in a couple years time but with the trade they fixed their goaltending for the short term and possibly long term.

 

I see it as an either-or and I think Lou went with the position that is usually harder to fix.  Looking back I can't really blame him even though I was pissed at the time of the trade.


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#672 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:32 AM

Oh please SD, stop being such a baby, I hardly come close to quoting you on "every single one of your posts".  Just a slight exaggeration on your part.

 

Where did I say Clarkson was useless?  Nope, never said that.  I said he's grossly overpaid for what he brings.  I also said him scoring 30 goals was a fluke.  And it was.  He got off to a fast start last season then basically disappeared from a goal-scoring standpoint.  I think 15 goals or so from Clarkson in a full season's worth of games is probably a fairer expectation.  And as usual, you use hindsight in your criticisms.  No, keeping Clarkson ultimately did not work out for the Devils.  Do I understand why Lou chose to keep him at the time?  Yes I do.  

 

I wasn't referring to you specifically when I was talking about "beating the dead horse" with Parise...I was referring to the board in general...it's come up a lot since he's been gone.  For me, I'm fine with the perfect storm theory, re:  Parise's departure and leaving it at that.      


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#673 SterioDesign

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:39 AM

I blame JVB for losing Zach than Lou.  JVB put all his chips on Kovy and there was no way Lou would want 2 of those lifetime contracts on the books and no way JVB could afford it and would have made the Devils harder to sell.

 

It sounds like Lou still doesn't really talk much to the players during the season and I wish he would at least be a little more flexible on that.  Just even a brief meeting with these players during the season to get a feel at where each side is at and they can then leave it be until the season is over.  Many times I still read players giving quotes how they haven't heard at all from Lou about contract talks and its Feb/March in their final year of their contract.

 

I mean it couldn't hurt just to get a feel for each other before doing any serious negotiation.

 

Devils needed to fix goaltending and scoring this off-season the most.  If they stuck with the pick they might have fixed their scoring in a couple years time but with the trade they fixed their goaltending for the short term and possibly long term.

 

I see it as an either-or and I think Lou went with the position that is usually harder to fix.  Looking back I can't really blame him even though I was pissed at the time of the trade.

 

Well there, thanks dude, honestly. It's seriously only common sense to me.

 

Like you said, it wouldn't hurt at all and it would put him in a way better position for negotiations.

 

Look around the league and many many many many many players has signed during the season and we're relieved that it was out of the way. God knows how many of those players would be on different team if they would have been sitting home for 2 months thinking of other possibilities while being left in the dark from your own boss.


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#674 dmann422

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:35 AM

Jesus I can't wait till we win another cup- not because I want to win but because hopefully that will shut up all this parise clarkson and kovy crap once and for all.
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#675 DevsMan84

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:40 AM

Jesus I can't wait till we win another cup- not because I want to win but because hopefully that will shut up all this parise clarkson and kovy crap once and for all.

 

I try to avoid it since losing them is a moot point now.  I can't blame other fans for bringing it up though as the loss of these three players in a relatively short amount of time will sting the franchise for at least the next year or two more.


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#676 2ELIAS6

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:25 AM

In time we will get another star player either through draft, trade or FA and we will start over again.
 
Just how these things go.

i cannot wait until something comes along for us.. we are in desperate need of that one key person right now.. im more so afraid of how long it is going to take to heppen
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#677 Devilsfan118

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:31 AM

Jesus I can't wait till we win another cup- not because I want to win but because hopefully that will shut up all this parise clarkson and kovy crap once and for all.

 

The last I'll comment on this topic, because this should be the OOT Thread and not the "Parise and Kovalchuk V5.0 Thread" - but you'll be waiting a while for this I suspect.

 

But just imagine for second how good this team could've been had even one of Parise or Kovalchuk stuck around.  I'd argue our D core will be one of the best league in a few years if even a handful of the prospects we have pan out (Larsson, Gelinas, Merril, Severson, Burlon, Scarlet, Santini, even Helgeson, Hrabarekna and, hell, Urbom - it's ridiculous how deep the pipeline is here).  Hopefully we lock up Cory long term so goaltending is a relative constant and strength.  That's 2/3 positions on this team that are (presumably) solid for the forseeable future.  

All this team needs is an offensive star or two to lead the way and we'd be set.  Like, really set.  Hopefully Lou can work some magic here in the coming years (assuming he doesn't retire) and bring in some scoring talent, because I think we could have a few years of potentially very good Devils hockey in front of us.  We'll see what magic Lou can pull off.


Edited by Devilsfan118, 09 January 2014 - 11:32 AM.

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#678 Mike Brown

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:58 AM

The last I'll comment on this topic, because this should be the OOT Thread and not the "Parise and Kovalchuk V5.0 Thread" - but you'll be waiting a while for this I suspect.

 

But just imagine for second how good this team could've been had even one of Parise or Kovalchuk stuck around.  I'd argue our D core will be one of the best league in a few years if even a handful of the prospects we have pan out (Larsson, Gelinas, Merril, Severson, Burlon, Scarlet, Santini, even Helgeson, Hrabarekna and, hell, Urbom - it's ridiculous how deep the pipeline is here).  Hopefully we lock up Cory long term so goaltending is a relative constant and strength.  That's 2/3 positions on this team that are (presumably) solid for the forseeable future.  

All this team needs is an offensive star or two to lead the way and we'd be set.  Like, really set.  Hopefully Lou can work some magic here in the coming years (assuming he doesn't retire) and bring in some scoring talent, because I think we could have a few years of potentially very good Devils hockey in front of us.  We'll see what magic Lou can pull off.

 

I completely agree with everything in this post.


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#679 95Crash

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:43 PM

Erskine and Orr just had a good go in Washington LOL


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#680 Mike Brown

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:21 PM

Dammit Dallas.


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