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Urbom claimed off waivers by Washington then by Devils from WSH


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#61 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:59 PM

Couldn't we have at least tried to trade him and get a return? Probably would have landed a 4th or something. Maybe package him in with something.

 

He probably tried, but couldn't find a taker.  Sometimes stuff like this happens...guys just can't crack the lineup or get ahead of the guys over them on the depth chart...that how a guy like Loktionov is available for a 5th-round draft pick.


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#62 Marshall

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:00 PM

 

 

Mmm? never said we lost FA because we had too many players? that doesnt really make sense.

 

My whole point is that Lou has a tendencies to do things with a risky "make or break" mentality (not giving up the 29th pick is another example) and when it breaks, we're left with nothing. Which if you look case by case is no big deal really. But if you look at it as a whole you see that you may be losing lots of opportunities for fvck all. It's not really about WHO we lost it's more about the what we could have got.

 

I guess a good example would be MTL, I hate them but they are starting to be relevant and their drafting has been a lot better lately cause they have been getting at least a little something for players they lost. Either through trades, rights etc etc but they stacked a LOT of picks and they can take chances and if you look into it some moves they made got them gems in later rounds like Gallagher and they have a great forwards group built with a bunch of 2nd round picks they got. Obviously they've been in a position to trade guys at the deadline more than us lately.

 

Last year they got Fucale (who could be a #1 goalie or an excellent backup) and Jacob de la Rose (who i really like too) with extra picks they got for moving players. (of course that's just an example of one situation through the league) but if mtl would have lost or let those guys walk and get claim off waivers cause they we're not in their plans anymore. Well thats 2 young players they would have never got.

 

 

That's a great comparison for a team that's not New Jersey. What would/could you have gotten for Urbom? A 5th? And that team would likely not see him as a key cog in their puzzle and thus wait for him to hit waivers and take their chances there. Tallinder, you weren't getting much for him at the time and marketplace. 

 

And then I don't know what else you might be referring to, because I can't see how this has anything to do with New Jersey, unless you're nitpicking and choosing all the bad moves Lou has made over the years in FA, draft, trade...


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#63 NJDevs4978

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

God, Sterio you are such the Debbie Downer of the board.  Of course the Habs got extra picks in '11-12, they were a wasteland and had a lot of FA's to fob off.  The one year we were in last place, we also traded Langs and Arnott for assets.  That's how it works, if you're a non-playoff team you stock up for the future.  If you are a playoff team you're not trading off UFA's for assets.

 

And they heisted Joey N in Dallas last year, getting a 2nd AND Ryder for Cole...that's one of the reasons Joey N was put out to pasture.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 October 2013 - 01:08 PM.

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#64 Triumph

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:13 PM

I'd rather probably risk Urbom to waivers than trade him for a 5th, because a 5th is such a nothing asset, and Urbom could help me this year if he slips through waivers.  Tough to say.

 

Lou is one of the best in the business at using IR and so forth so as to not squander assets.  The Red Wings lost Kyle Quincey to waivers.  Pittsburgh inexplicably dealt Mark Letestu to Columbus for a 4th round pick after having him on one of the best contracts in the league, now their bottom lines are a shambles and Letestu has a solid scoring rate in Columbus.  Los Angeles dumped Andrei Loktionov for a 5th round pick and was roundly criticized.  The Sharks, up against the cap, dealt Christian Ehrhoff for garbage assets and his career exploded.  Sometimes these things happen, even to the best teams.


Edited by Triumph, 03 October 2013 - 01:16 PM.

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#65 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:54 PM

 

 

Mmm? never said we lost FA because we had too many players? that doesnt really make sense.

 

My whole point is that Lou has a tendencies to do things with a risky "make or break" mentality (not giving up the 29th pick is another example) and when it breaks, we're left with nothing. Which if you look case by case is no big deal really. But if you look at it as a whole you see that you may be losing lots of opportunities for fvck all. It's not really about WHO we lost it's more about the what we could have got.

 

I guess a good example would be MTL, I hate them but they are starting to be relevant and their drafting has been a lot better lately cause they have been getting at least a little something for players they lost. Either through trades, rights etc etc but they stacked a LOT of picks and they can take chances and if you look into it some moves they made got them gems in later rounds like Gallagher and they have a great forwards group built with a bunch of 2nd round picks they got. Obviously they've been in a position to trade guys at the deadline more than us lately.

 

Last year they got Fucale (who could be a #1 goalie or an excellent backup) and Jacob de la Rose (who i really like too) with extra picks they got for moving players. (of course that's just an example of one situation through the league) but if mtl would have lost or let those guys walk and get claim off waivers cause they we're not in their plans anymore. Well thats 2 young players they would have never got.

 

 

Montreal gave up guys like Hal Gill, Erik Cole, Andrei Kostitsyn, and Mike Cammalleri to get decent picks. The haven't really made many player-for-pick trades that amounted to much.

 

This is Alex Urbom. He may have fetched maybe a 4th or a 5th, or he may have passed through waivers and been in Albany. It wasn't a huge risk. Sucks that it didn't pay off, but there's no comparison with Montreal.


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#66 jim777

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:14 PM

Losing Urbom is an 'oh well' moment for me, nothing more really. The talent in Albany simply simply doesn't strike me as first rate. And the talk about Larsson in this thread is accurate also IMHO - he wasn't drafted to be a solid D man he was drafted to be a shining star # 1 guy and he needs a breakout year soon.


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#67 Triumph

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:26 PM

Can't believe I forgot Thomas Hickey, who turned into one of the Islanders best D after being waived by Los Angeles.  Similar situation, except that Hickey was a former #4 overall pick.

 

If we want to go to Montreal, Yanick Weber was non-tendered by Montreal and signed with Vancouver.  I always liked Weber, seemed like a guy who could add some offense, but they had too many guys and didn't want to bother with him, so off he went.


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#68 Guadana

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

big disappointment. really good summer. take out some problem useless players. make good replacement.

 

and this. bad ending of a good summer.

 

i want his comeback like few years ago with salmela. by the way salmela was good before carter`s hit


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#69 BlueSkirt

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:48 PM

If we really want him then we can pick him up if he ever gets waived by the Caps...


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#70 The 29th Pick

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:53 PM

If Lou aint losing sleep over this....neither am I


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#71 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:11 PM

If we really want him then we can pick him up when he gets waived by the Caps...

 

Corrected. 


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#72 ATLL765

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:46 PM

Losing Urbom is an 'oh well' moment for me, nothing more really. The talent in Albany simply simply doesn't strike me as first rate. And the talk about Larsson in this thread is accurate also IMHO - he wasn't drafted to be a solid D man he was drafted to be a shining star # 1 guy and he needs a breakout year soon.

They say forwards usually break out in year 3 in the pros. For defensemen, they say more like year 5. This is Larsson's 3rd year and the last of his ELC, so I expect to see a bit more from him, but I'm not going to say he's a bust if he doesn't put up huge numbers. Would like to see at least 20 points though. Especially if he gets PP time. If he isn't a top guy by that year 5 though, then it won't look good.


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#73 Mike Brown

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:48 PM

I'm gonna miss Alex.  But we have too many d-men better than him in our farm system.  I obviously would have rather traded him, but it is what it is.  We still have a deep prospect pool of defensemen.  I hope this means we can lock up Fayne.


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#74 The 29th Pick

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:02 PM

I'm gonna miss Alex.  But we have too many d-men better than him in our farm system.  I obviously would have rather traded him, but it is what it is.  We still have a deep prospect pool of defensemen.  I hope this means we can lock up Fayne.

Fayne must be getting tired of watching games here in Jersey


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#75 SterioDesign

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

That was not the point really. God im the worst at explaining my points apparently... it's not about Urbom at all. Im looking at the big picture

 

Can we agree that Lou has a "All Out / All or Nothing / Make or break / High Risks, High Rewards" mentality which lead him to do things a certain way? his trade deadline and FA handling, not giving away the 29th pick etc etc are examples of that, he just go for it 100% of the time. And result of that if it doesn't work the loss is assured to be the worst you can have, there's no safety net.

 

Compared now to teams who play it a little more carefully to at least limit their losses if there's any and try to get picks or something instead at least once in awhile. Well in the long run those extra picks or new prospects can help you build a good prospect pool.

 

And on the other way around, not getting all those extra picks and losing players for nothing in return will eventually hurt you. Our forwards group in the AHL is a good indication of that. Look at our NHL group, not a lot of them are homegrown either. We constantly have to get guys off the market and there's a reason for that.


Edited by SterioDesign, 03 October 2013 - 04:12 PM.

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#76 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:18 PM

Speaking of players that left the Devils, Scott Clemmensen just passed through waivers. How far the mighty have fallen.


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#77 maxpower

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:18 PM

I think the "best prospect" thing was really a tire pumping.   Serves to make Lou look silly for letting his former "best prospect" be claimed off waivers to protect Stephen Gionta's NHL job (as he does have a two way downside)... but other than that, I'm not sure what this is.


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#78 SterioDesign

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:24 PM

Speaking of players that left the Devils, Scott Clemmensen just passed through waivers. How far the mighty have fallen.

 

yeah im surprised Pittsburgh didnt pick him up, they dont have much to lose and their backup now is on a 2way


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#79 BlueSkirt

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:29 PM

Corrected. 

 

i see what ou did there :)


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#80 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:34 PM

That was not the point really. God im the worst at explaining my points apparently... it's not about Urbom at all. Im looking at the big picture

 

Can we agree that Lou has a "All Out / All or Nothing / Make or break / High Risks, High Rewards" mentality which lead him to do things a certain way? his trade deadline and FA handling, not giving away the 29th pick etc etc are examples of that, he just go for it 100% of the time. And result of that if it doesn't work the loss is assured to be the worst you can have, there's no safety net.

 

Compared now to teams who play it a little more carefully to at least limit their losses if there's any and try to get picks or something instead at least once in awhile. Well in the long run those extra picks or new prospects can help you build a good prospect pool.

 

And on the other way around, not getting all those extra picks and losing players for nothing in return will eventually hurt you. Our forwards group in the AHL is a good indication of that. Look at our NHL group, not a lot of them are homegrown either. We constantly have to get guys off the market and there's a reason for that.

 

 

The reason for that has a lot to do with the team finishing in the top 10 most seasons. When you draft in the later third of every round, you have less chance of getting bigger talent. If we drafted in the top 10 every 2 or 3 years, we'd have plenty of talent. It's not like these teams are getting great players stocking up on 3rd-7th round picks.

 

"All Out / All or Nothing / Make or break / High Risks, High Rewards" may be the most un-Lou-like description of Lou I've ever heard of. He's well known for keeping himself calm and only making a move when it's necessary. He very rarely makes a high risk move, but when he does, it's a doozy (Kovy, Mogilny, Gilmour, Schneider etc). This was a very low risk that some people seem to be blowing out of the water.

 

If you are truly thinking big picture, you'd see that none of these players that leave have much trade value (Urbom, Taormina), or are untradeable at the time of a deadline (Parise, Clarkson)

 

When we were losing, we unloaded Arnott and Langenbrunner, etc. But when you're in a playoff run, you can't just trade away players for random draft picks. You keep trying to compare the Devils to teams that have a very different last 10 years or so.


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