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The Three Tests For Peter DeBoer


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#1 Triumph

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:07 PM

Peter DeBoer has already passed a test no Devils coach has since Jacques Lemaire's first tenure - being the coach on 3 straight opening days.  However, he's got 3 more tests this season that could determine whether we see him back for a 4th season or whether he goes the way of so many Lamoriello coaching hires.  I will categorize these tests as the 3 tests from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, because if the Devils don't make the playoffs, then the forces of darkness will march all over the face of the earth.

 

1.  The Path Of God - Andrei Loktionov

 

Andrei Loktionov came over in a midseason trade and was called up shortly thereafter.  He had a marvelous hot streak, but the Devils didn't win that often with him in the lineup - hockey-reference has them going 8-20 with Loktionov.  His territorial stats may be somewhat of a fluke, but this kid can play.  He's got some defensive shortcomings but he is terrific on the forecheck and has excellent vision.  Right now he's not included on the Devils power play but to me this has to change.  If the Devils don't play him a lot and he goes back to Russia as a result, they may have missed out on a tremendous player.

 

2.  The Word Of God - Martin Brodeur

 

Brodeur's word has been that of the Word of God for more than 15 years, and indeed most Devils coaches have been jumping from M to A to R to T etc. on stones to avoid falling to their deaths.  DeBoer is going to have to handle this transition diplomatically, because Brodeur will run to the press if he's not starting often.  Still, it's hard to imagine Brodeur being much better than he's been the last 3 years, and Schneider should be getting 50 starts this year if he stays injury-free.

 

3.  The Breath Of God - Mark Fayne

 

The analogy breaks down here, but icing a defense with Bryce Salvador, Anton Volchenkov, Marek Zidlicky, and Peter Harrold may be like jumping into an open chasm at times.  Mark Fayne ended up in the doghouse last year after a few giveaways led to goals, but what didn't lead to goals with Hedberg and Brodeur in net?  Fayne is head and shoulders better than Volchenkov, Salvador, and Harrold and was better than Adam Larsson last year too.  It appears he's sitting out the opening game - if the Devils treat Fayne poorly, he'll walk at the end of the season, and as long as his new team has an open mind and he continues to play how he can play, that team will have gotten an inexpensive top 4 defender.  This guy was good enough to take on top players during 11-12 and now he can't even get in the opening night lineup?  Bushwah.  The Devils' margin for success is thin, so not dressing the guy who might be your 3rd best defenseman is not really a step in the right direction.


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#2 DJ Eco

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:12 PM

Right on, man, agree with all three.


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#3 DevsMan84

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:32 PM

Only the Penitent Man will Pass


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#4 Bartholomew Hunt

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:41 PM

Peter DeBoer has already passed a test no Devils coach has since Jacques Lemaire's first tenure - being the coach on 3 straight opening days. However, he's got 3 more tests this season that could determine whether we see him back for a 4th season or whether he goes the way of so many Lamoriello coaching hires. I will categorize these tests as the 3 tests from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, because if the Devils don't make the playoffs, then the forces of darkness will march all over the face of the earth.

1. The Path Of God - Andrei Loktionov

Andrei Loktionov came over in a midseason trade and was called up shortly thereafter. He had a marvelous hot streak, but the Devils didn't win that often with him in the lineup - hockey-reference has them going 8-20 with Loktionov. His territorial stats may be somewhat of a fluke, but this kid can play. He's got some defensive shortcomings but he is terrific on the forecheck and has excellent vision. Right now he's not included on the Devils power play but to me this has to change. If the Devils don't play him a lot and he goes back to Russia as a result, they may have missed out on a tremendous player.

2. The Word Of God - Martin Brodeur

Brodeur's word has been that of the Word of God for more than 15 years, and indeed most Devils coaches have been jumping from M to A to R to T etc. on stones to avoid falling to their deaths. DeBoer is going to have to handle this transition diplomatically, because Brodeur will run to the press if he's not starting often. Still, it's hard to imagine Brodeur being much better than he's been the last 3 years, and Schneider should be getting 50 starts this year if he stays injury-free.

3. The Breath Of God - Mark Fayne

The analogy breaks down here, but icing a defense with Bryce Salvador, Anton Volchenkov, Marek Zidlicky, and Peter Harrold may be like jumping into an open chasm at times. Mark Fayne ended up in the doghouse last year after a few giveaways led to goals, but what didn't lead to goals with Hedberg and Brodeur in net? Fayne is head and shoulders better than Volchenkov, Salvador, and Harrold and was better than Adam Larsson last year too. It appears he's sitting out the opening game - if the Devils treat Fayne poorly, he'll walk at the end of the season, and as long as his new team has an open mind and he continues to play how he can play, that team will have gotten an inexpensive top 4 defender. This guy was good enough to take on top players during 11-12 and now he can't even get in the opening night lineup? Bushwah. The Devils' margin for success is thin, so not dressing the guy who might be your 3rd best defenseman is not really a step in the right direction.


I agree with the brodeur part, but while loktinov has potential, I feel hes extremely overrated on this website. I also couldnt disagree more that fayne is better than volchenkov and larsson. Everyone was better than salvador last year, we all know that, but you have to see how he comes out of the gate this year. Its not impossible for him to bounce back. But larssons decision making, puck moving skills, and poise, makes him without a doubt much better than fayne. Also volchenkovs shot blocking and ability to take the body makes him much better than fayne. Faynes decisions with the puck have ALWAYS been atrocious. Losing fayne at the end of the year wouldnt effect this team one bit, especially with a handful of young Dmen coming up with much more potential than him.
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#5 ATLL765

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:48 PM

I agree with the brodeur part, but while loktinov has potential, I feel hes extremely overrated on this website. I also couldnt disagree more that fayne is better than volchenkov and larsson. Everyone was better than salvador last year, we all know that, but you have to see how he comes out of the gate this year. Its not impossible for him to bounce back. But larssons decision making, puck moving skills, and poise, makes him without a doubt much better than fayne. Also volchenkovs shot blocking and ability to take the body makes him much better than fayne. Faynes decisions with the puck have ALWAYS been atrocious. Losing fayne at the end of the year wouldnt effect this team one bit, especially with a handful of young Dmen coming up with much more potential than him.

I don't know how you can think Fayne isn't better than Volchenkov. Volchenkov is slow, painfully so. Fayne is a decent skater and makes the right decisions. He's not flashy, but I don't know what atrocious decision making you're saying you see from Fayne. Larsson has good tools, but we all have seen the mistakes he's made and I don't think he's ready to play against top lines just yet. Fayne already proved he can play against top lines.


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#6 caron14

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:57 PM

Let make it clear... i love fayne he is good but he is not better than Larsson right now... HE dont bring the same thing as zid offensively and he dont bring the same roughness than volchenkov... that being said he should be on our top 4. (fvcking salvador lol :P )

 

Loktionov, is awesome plying with ryder and zubrus will make him have a fantastic year... We will resign him for sure... very valuable...

 

Brodeur... i dont know how things turn out, it depend on brodeur and cory schneider performance.


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#7 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

Re:  #1, I'm guessing he'll get his opportunities...it's too early to say, but in the end he could simply wind up a being a "could've been" type. 

 

Re:  #2, I've gone into this in depth, but if Marty's getting outplayed by Schneider, he can't expect to be getting the majority of the playing time, or even half of it.  It's great to be proud and to believe in yourself, but you can start to come off looking selfish and silly if you're unwilling to see what everyone does.  I maintain hope that Marty will go out gracefully and make this as easy as possible for everyone involved, but like I've said, what often makes the greats who they are the same attributes that don't allow them to step aside or accept reduced roles.   

 

Re:  #3, long season, I think opportunities will be there for Fayne. 


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#8 ATLL765

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

Let make it clear... i love fayne he is good but he is not better than Larsson right now... HE dont bring the same thing as zid offensively and he dont bring the same roughness than volchenkov... that being said he should be on our top 4. (fvcking salvador lol :P )

 

Loktionov, is awesome plying with ryder and zubrus will make him have a fantastic year... We will resign him for sure... very valuable...

 

Brodeur... i dont know how things turn out, it depend on brodeur and cory schneider performance.

Fayne can handle playing against top lines and has done so, yet Larsson has not really been trusted in that position yet, so how can you say Larsson is better?


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#9 Triumph

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:01 PM

I agree with the brodeur part, but while loktinov has potential, I feel hes extremely overrated on this website. I also couldnt disagree more that fayne is better than volchenkov and larsson. Everyone was better than salvador last year, we all know that, but you have to see how he comes out of the gate this year. Its not impossible for him to bounce back. But larssons decision making, puck moving skills, and poise, makes him without a doubt much better than fayne. Also volchenkovs shot blocking and ability to take the body makes him much better than fayne. Faynes decisions with the puck have ALWAYS been atrocious. Losing fayne at the end of the year wouldnt effect this team one bit, especially with a handful of young Dmen coming up with much more potential than him.

 

People say stuff like this, and I'd just like for you to remember this post in 5 years.  It is really hard to find players as good as Mark Fayne.  Then again, you don't think he's good already, but he's not sitting for players who are better than him, he is sitting for Peter Harrold, a guy who couldn't crack the team when Fayne was getting 20 minutes a night in 2011-12.

 

It's all in the data.  The team does better with Fayne on the ice than with Larsson and Volchenkov.


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#10 mouse

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:06 PM

People say stuff like this, and I'd just like for you to remember this post in 5 years.  It is really hard to find players as good as Mark Fayne.  Then again, you don't think he's good already, but he's not sitting for players who are better than him, he is sitting for Peter Harrold, a guy who couldn't crack the team when Fayne was getting 20 minutes a night in 2011-12.

 

It's all in the data.  The team does better with Fayne on the ice than with Larsson and Volchenkov.

 

Fayne can handle playing against top lines and has done so, yet Larsson has not really been trusted in that position yet, so how can you say Larsson is better?

This. Fayne sometimes looks worse because he's playing against better competition. When he fvcks up, he gets burned. I like Larsson a lot, but he's been babied to some extent, and Volch just gets buried. 


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#11 Daniel

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:11 PM

I don't foresee a goalie controversy, or at least a controversy that stems from PDB giving more starts to Marty despite playing noticeably worse than Schneider.  Lou did not trade that pick to acquire a backup that would not start in place of a struggling goalie.  This is especially the case since Schneider's only under contract for one more year.  So I don't think Lou will be whispering in PDB's ear to give Marty more starts than above what's needed to pass the straight face test.

 

I also still don't know where this idea of past coach's tiptoeing around Marty's stature comes from.  However bad people think he has been over the past few years, it wasn't like Lundqvist was his backup.  And four years ago, the Devils were good enough to begin with home ice advantage in the playoffs; three years ago, the problem was clearly the coach, and two years ago the team went to the finals.  Last year the team stunk probably due in no small part to goaltending (half of which was Hedberg by the way), and what do you know, Lou trades a very valuable draft pick for a goalie.  Doesn't sound like a team that wants to ride Marty no matter what for fear of wounding his pride. 

 

As I've said before, the real controversy will be what happens if the Devils make the playoffs.  Barring injury, it'll likely mean that Marty is playing well enough to get his wins and have a nice looking GAA. 


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#12 Triumph

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

The Devils were very lucky to finish as high as 6th in 2011-12 because of their mediocre goaltending and hilarious shootout luck.  That team could've easily missed the playoffs.

 

Did Brodeur ever get sat down when he was playing poorly?  Again, how often would Brodeur play poorly, get yanked from a game, and not start the next game, even if the backup had been slated to play that game?


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#13 Devilsfan118

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

I see Fayne as an Oduya-type player, to be honest.

 

He'll leave here after this year, and find a role as a top-6 or top-4 regular somewhere else where old Vets aren't given preference simply because of seniority.  

 

But I'm expecting (hoping?) Salvador has declined - enough so that he cannot be ignored and he's scratched at least occasionally.


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#14 Guadana

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

oduya has better hands and he is faster


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#15 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:20 PM

the one thing that bothered me the most with Deboer... is when he was in some kind of denial that Hedberg was struggling and costing us games and was blaming the attack... 

 

i know he was in a corner and had to let Moose know he had faith in him to bounce back and of course i wouldn't want the coach to throw guys under the bus ala Torts of course... but there's an in between i think.

 

Pete was in full mode denial to that fact though it seems


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#16 NJDevs4978

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:21 PM

I see Fayne as an Oduya-type player, to be honest.

 

He'll leave here after this year, and find a role as a top-6 or top-4 regular somewhere else where old Vets aren't given preference simply because of seniority.  

 

But I'm expecting (hoping?) Salvador has declined - enough so that he cannot be ignored and he's scratched at least occasionally.

 

But Fayne's not being scratched for Salvador or even Volch...he's being scratched for Peter Harrold and his 800k salary.  And watch Harrold be running the second PP instead of Larsson.  Harrold and baby Gio are vet fill-ins that PDB has turned into indispensable members of the lineup, that's gotta stop at some point.

 

lol at the image of Tri's #2.  Absolutely agree on #3.  As for #1, I don't know where you put Loik on the PP if indeed Elias is going back to C and he and Travis are the top two centers.  Loik won't play wing and he's not playing above either guy on the PP.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 02 October 2013 - 03:21 PM.

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#17 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:31 PM

But Fayne's not being scratched for Salvador or even Volch...he's being scratched for Peter Harrold and his 800k salary.  And watch Harrold be running the second PP instead of Larsson.  Harrold and baby Gio are vet fill-ins that PDB has turned into indispensable members of the lineup, that's gotta stop at some point.

 

lol at the image of Tri's #2.  Absolutely agree on #3.  As for #1, I don't know where you put Loik on the PP if indeed Elias is going back to C and he and Travis are the top two centers.  Loik won't play wing and he's not playing above either guy on the PP.

 

Travis has been playing the point on the PP. Besides, most teams have 2 PP units. In my view these are the 10 players who should be vying to get into the PP slots:

 

Elias

Jagr

Zajac

Ryder

Clowe

Loktionov

Henrique

Zidlicky

Greene

Larsson

 

Figure out two sets of five involving those players that work and you should be ok to go.


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#18 ATLL765

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:32 PM

But Fayne's not being scratched for Salvador or even Volch...he's being scratched for Peter Harrold and his 800k salary.  And watch Harrold be running the second PP instead of Larsson.  Harrold and baby Gio are vet fill-ins that PDB has turned into indispensable members of the lineup, that's gotta stop at some point.

 

lol at the image of Tri's #2.  Absolutely agree on #3.  As for #1, I don't know where you put Loik on the PP if indeed Elias is going back to C and he and Travis are the top two centers.  Loik won't play wing and he's not playing above either guy on the PP.

The PP isn't quite the same though. When you spend so much time on the PP in the attacking zone, you're not exactly set up like you would be 5on5. Zajac is a center, but didn't a report have him playing the point on one of the PP units? I don't think having Loktionov at center on the PP is important at all. I'm sure he'd be fine.


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#19 Zubie#8

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:34 PM

Am I the only one who loves Harrold? I think the guy can play, he is solid, good PMD, helps out on the powerplay and chips in offensively. Fayne AND Harrold should be in over Salvador and Volchenkov, but it is what it is.


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#20 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:37 PM

Am I the only one who loves Harrold? I think the guy can play, he is solid, good PMD, helps out on the powerplay and chips in offensively. Fayne AND Harrold should be in over Salvador and Volchenkov, but it is what it is.

 

i like Harrold too. I really don't like Sal and Volchenkov but i know other guys may not be able to take their minutes for a full season. 


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