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#41 Colin226

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:38 AM

Ok if they want to call themselves New york for the "glam" of it, and because I guess some New Yorkers for whatever reason can't root for NJ teams while we all root for their team, then fine.. But do they even really ever acknowledge New Jersey's existence? I mean, I've been to games and I don't think NJ is ever mentioned anywhere.. Just think they could do a better job acknowledging the state's existence and strong support of their team.. If people from NJ stopped going to games I bet the franchise would die out

 

If it wasn't for New Jersey finally standing up for itself for the Super Bowl, we ALL know it would be the "New York Super Bowl" and they wouldn't mention NJ at all.. They'd refer to the location of the stadium as "Just a few miles from Manhattan" and only show images of the NYC skyline.. Hell, I watched a Rutgers football game once (on national TV I think) and they kept showing the NY skyline.. WTF is that?! I pay for that damn school and that football program, not the people in NYC


Edited by Colin226, 30 October 2013 - 09:40 AM.

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#42 2ELIAS6

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:48 AM

just the way it is NYC gets a ton of recognition just for being NYC.. there is nothing in northern nj that gets any recognition.. what newark lol newark is not such a great place theres nothing there... well besides our prudential center.. NYC has a lot of historic things a ton actually and everyone knows it for something different.. jersey has the jersey shores which isnt really near our location up here for say near metlife.. i guess.. not justifying anything just saying ya knoww
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#43 Colin226

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:13 AM

just the way it is NYC gets a ton of recognition just for being NYC.. there is nothing in northern nj that gets any recognition.. what newark lol newark is not such a great place theres nothing there... well besides our prudential center.. NYC has a lot of historic things a ton actually and everyone knows it for something different.. jersey has the jersey shores which isnt really near our location up here for say near metlife.. i guess.. not justifying anything just saying ya knoww

 

Not attacking you here but more the idea that NYC has something NJ doesn't.. They have a lot of wealthy people, more skyscrapers, and a ton of lights.. History though? I can go to Morristown and see Washington's Headquarters, or down to Princeton area and see where Washington crossed the Delaware and saved the most important war in our history (not to mention the beautiful hiking and biking trails around there).. Need to shop? NJ has a ridiculous number of malls with lower sales tax to boot.. Need the arts? We don't have Broadway but we do have several great arts centers and some good museums too.. Looking for some semblance of nature? We don't need a man-made green rectangle to help us escape from overpriced concrete cells like folks in NYC do.. We have real nature to go out and be in, as well as farms and rivers.. Looking to eat well? Tell me something NYC has that NJ doesn't (aside from 3 Michelin star restaurants, not that normal folks eat at those places often anyway)

 

Our problem is that all of these things are more spread out and not confined to an overcrowded, overpriced island.. You can't take a cab or subway to any of these options in a short amount of time.. I think part of it too is that we live near NYC so it's not as much of a shock to go there as it is for other visitors.. Whenever I go to another city I'm like "that skyline is a joke", but people from other cities are completely blown away by the NYC skyline and massive hustle-and-bustle, and rightfully so as a visitor.. But really what do those things really offer?.. Just saying, that doesn't mean they actually have something we don't (other than impressively tall buildings)

 

Part of NJ's problem is that people don't see the good parts.. So when visitors fly into Newark all they see are giant oil containers, a shipyard, and those junky areas east of Newark but west of Jersey City.. I don't blame them for averting their eyes to NYC and trying to get over there ASAP.. Problem is, they don't see the beautiful parts of the state and the things that make it great.. Which is somewhat OK in that we get to enjoy it ourselves, just wish we got more respect for what our state actually offers

 

But I also think that there is a growing movement (mainly amongst young people) to have more pride in the state and stand up for it.. My parents talk about how, when they grew up in the 50's and 60's, NJ was a lot more farmland and NYC had a lower drinking age so everyone went there.. And they believe that's contributed to an older thinking that NJ doesn't have much to offer, but NYC is this different place that has everything NJ doesn't


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#44 2ELIAS6

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:20 AM

what i was getting at is NYC is more known for what it has all with in its city.. not threw out the state of NY lol.. Empire State Building,Chrysler building, World Trade Center, Statue of Liberty, ellis island, museum of natural history even... so on and so on even grand central is like a historic building i believe.. the tourist attraction says it all... lol people across the county do not care if NJ has more shopping malls with lower tax rates LMAO.. its the point that NYC is NYC its just one of those icons in our counrty known for what it has and what it is. its not like theyre talking about the mountains in up state NY saying something about the state of NY .. its just because its NYC
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#45 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:27 AM

what i was getting at is NYC is more known for what it has all with in its city.. not threw out the state of NY lol.. Empire State Building,Chrysler building, World Trade Center, Statue of Liberty, ellis island, museum of natural history even... so on and so on even grand central is like a historic building i believe.. the tourist attraction says it all... lol people across the county do not care if NJ has more shopping malls with lower tax rates LMAO.. its the point that NYC is NYC its just one of those icons in our counrty known for what it has and what it is. its not like theyre talking about the mountains in up state NY saying something about the state of NY .. its just because its NYC

 

I agree with what you're saying.  It's all about marketing, and NYC is the draw.  However, NJ owns 1/2 of the WTC (the Port Authority actually owns the site, but it is a bi-state agency 1/2 owned by NYS and 1/2 owned by NJ).  NJ also owns everything but the vistor's center on Ellis Island.  


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#46 TheRedStorm

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:32 AM

Not attacking you here but more the idea that NYC has something NJ doesn't.. They have a lot of wealthy people, more skyscrapers, and a ton of lights.. History though? I can go to Morristown and see Washington's Headquarters, or down to Princeton area and see where Washington crossed the Delaware and saved the most important war in our history (not to mention the beautiful hiking and biking trails around there).. Need to shop? NJ has a ridiculous number of malls with lower sales tax to boot.. Need the arts? We don't have Broadway but we do have several great arts centers and some good museums too.. Looking for some semblance of nature? We don't need a man-made green rectangle to help us escape from overpriced concrete cells like folks in NYC do.. We have real nature to go out and be in, as well as farms and rivers.. Looking to eat well? Tell me something NYC has that NJ doesn't (aside from 3 Michelin star restaurants, not that normal folks eat at those places often anyway)

 

Our problem is that all of these things are more spread out and not confined to an overcrowded, overpriced island.. You can't take a cab or subway to any of these options in a short amount of time.. I think part of it too is that we live near NYC so it's not as much of a shock to go there as it is for other visitors.. Whenever I go to another city I'm like "that skyline is a joke", but people from other cities are completely blown away by the NYC skyline and massive hustle-and-bustle, and rightfully so as a visitor.. But really what do those things really offer?.. Just saying, that doesn't mean they actually have something we don't (other than impressively tall buildings)

 

Part of NJ's problem is that people don't see the good parts.. So when visitors fly into Newark all they see are giant oil containers, a shipyard, and those junky areas east of Newark but west of Jersey City.. I don't blame them for averting their eyes to NYC and trying to get over there ASAP.. Problem is, they don't see the beautiful parts of the state and the things that make it great.. Which is somewhat OK in that we get to enjoy it ourselves, just wish we got more respect for what our state actually offers

 

But I also think that there is a growing movement (mainly amongst young people) to have more pride in the state and stand up for it.. My parents talk about how, when they grew up in the 50's and 60's, NJ was a lot more farmland and NYC had a lower drinking age so everyone went there.. And they believe that's contributed to an older thinking that NJ doesn't have much to offerbut NYC is this different place that has everything NJ doesn't

 

I'm as "pro NJ" as anyone, but this post is fairly dismissive. NYC is the cultural center of the world. It has major influence on the arts, architecture, entertainment and especially fashion. I'm not going to go all research paper here, but to dismiss NYC as just a bunch of rich people (NJ is the 3rd wealthiest state in the US), skyscrapers (many of architectural importance) and lights (it's a global city!) is not a particularly well thought out assessment,

 

NJ isn't overcrowded? LOL! Not by direct comparison, but it's clear the population has started to outgrow the state.

 

People do prefer the city so they don't own a car. Living in NYC you don't need one. It's great AND you still get to the same places every one else can in the Metro area. 

 

As i said, i am as pro-NJ as anyone from making a living and family here. While NJ has it's positives in the forms of many things, one can not realistically throw NJ up against NYC and say THERE!


Edited by TheRedStorm, 30 October 2013 - 10:34 AM.

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#47 Colin226

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

I was more or less taking a stab at the argument lol.. Obviously it's a great city with many attractions and I get that.. Part of our view on the city is slightly skewed in that we live here.. I don't go in to do the toursity things like go to the tops of buildings, wait in a long line to eat at Carnegie Deli, or walk around looking at people for fashion advice.. In fact everyone I know who lives there really hates everything touristy about the city, so that juxtaposition is kind of funny

 

I do harbor a decent amount of resentment towards the hate NJ gets from New Yorkers.. We've all heard that the only good thing about NJ is the view of NYC.. My buddy's friends from the city would not even consider living in Hoboken because "you really expect me to live in Jersey?!", so now he pays $1,600 a month in a 6 person concrete cell (pretty much that small) so that he can live in the city with them

 

Oh, and people who see NJ as overcrowded are just living in the wrong part of the state lol.. Even western Essex county isn't overcrowded and you can bus to NYC in 40 minutes


Edited by Colin226, 30 October 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#48 95Crash

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:53 AM

It is near impossible to argue that New Jersey is more popular than New York. But that's not the point. If the Red Bulls want to market themselves as New York, that's where they should be playing.

 

The Devils prove that New Jersey is marketable in its own right.


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#49 DevsMan84

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:01 AM

It is near impossible to argue that New Jersey is more popular than New York. But that's not the point. If the Red Bulls want to market themselves as New York, that's where they should be playing.

 

The Devils prove that New Jersey is marketable in its own right.

 

If that logic holds true, then the Detroit Pistons, Ottawa Senators, NY Jets and NY Giants need to start building new arenas or find new places to play real soon.


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#50 Colin226

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:11 AM

If that logic holds true, then the Detroit Pistons, Ottawa Senators, NY Jets and NY Giants need to start building new arenas or find new places to play real soon.

 

They really should!! Why are we paying for stadiums housing teams that don't even play for our state? NJ residents are still paying off the debt from Giants Stadium and it doesn't even exist anymore

 

http://www.sportsgri...giants-stadium/


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#51 devilsfan26

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:16 AM

I don't understand why our politicians don't grow some balls and tell these teams that if you want US to pay for your stadium, you better represent US in your team name.  How many other viable options did these teams have?

 

To me it matters.  I feel no connection to the Red Bulls at all.  I don't care that they happen to be the closest team.  I am not and have never been a New Yorker, so I do not align myself with the New York team.  I have been a Jets fan since I was in first grade, but I have a hard time getting that enthusiastic about them because they call themselves New York, and if for some reason the Giants were to change their name to the New Jersey Giants, I would switch allegiances.


Edited by devilsfan26, 30 October 2013 - 11:20 AM.

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#52 95Crash

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:45 AM

If that logic holds true, then the Detroit Pistons, Ottawa Senators, NY Jets and NY Giants need to start building new arenas or find new places to play real soon.

 

With regard to the Pistons, at least Auburn Hills and Detroit are in the same state. And re: the Senators, at least Ottawa and Kanata (?) are both in Ontario.

 

Since Day 1, I always believed that the Giants and Jets should've been pressured to change their names when they came here. But although I disagree with why they did not, I can grudgingly accept it -- each team had a history in New York and were afraid to turn off their respective fanbases.

 

But the Red Bulls had no such history. Their association with New York was entirely made up by them.


I don't understand why our politicians don't grow some balls and tell these teams that if you want US to pay for your stadium, you better represent US in your team name.  How many other viable options did these teams have?

 

To me it matters.  I feel no connection to the Red Bulls at all.  I don't care that they happen to be the closest team.  I am not and have never been a New Yorker, so I do not align myself with the New York team.  I have been a Jets fan since I was in first grade, but I have a hard time getting that enthusiastic about them because they call themselves New York, and if for some reason the Giants were to change their name to the New Jersey Giants, I would switch allegiances.

 

+ 1

 

Exactly!


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#53 thecoffeecake

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:36 PM

I can't believe how many people have so little respect for where they're from. I expect this stuff from an rb forum, not a devils one
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#54 DJ Eco

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:07 PM

But although I disagree with why they did not, I can grudgingly accept it -- each team had a history in New York and were afraid to turn off their respective fanbases.

 

But the Red Bulls had no such history. Their association with New York was entirely made up by them.

 

Yeah, because the previous "brand" had sh!t the bed. Attendance was terrible, the franchise was the laughingstock of the league. 

 

So they bought it, they planned out what would later be the Harrison arena with the connection to PATH and NJ Transit/Amtrak nearby. And calling it a "New York" team so that the growing demographic of young professionals from Downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn would come to games there on the subway absolutely made sense.

 

Not sound racist, but they decided to sign more European players instead of gimmicky Mexican and South American has-been players that used to target the local Hudson County demographic (where I live), which was a long-time failing strategy. French Thierry Henry, players from the English and German leagues, etc...

 

This is was a completely 180 degree Rebranding 101. It's like sprucing up a failing bankrupt deli in Jersey City and rebranding it as the Gotham Deli instead of the Pine Barrens Deli, and adding wraps and salads to what was already existing on the menu. As a local, 10 minutes away from the arena, 1) I still get to watch soccer in the vicinity; 2) they gave us a better arena; and 3) they're actually doing really well now.

 

I honestly don't think we'd have a franchise anymore if they rebranded in 2007 to be the New Jersey Metros. There'd be an expansion team in line to take our place faster than you could say "N.J."..


Edited by DJ Eco, 30 October 2013 - 01:13 PM.

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#55 newarkdev01

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:17 PM

I think it's important to not the market size difference when people bring a team here like the Red Bulls and they are not actually from the area. Red Bulls was a mized company just like the Newark arena when everything started. Over time the current ownership took over and they were looking at the 8 million people in NYC versus the 8 million people in the state of NJ. Ulitmately we hurt ourselves because we sometime sell ourselves as a 6th borough and enjoy the business that brings us and other times we want our autonomy. I remeber a few years back that they tried to pass legislation that woudl require any team that took public financing to be required to include the states name.

 

Also to the comment from Coffee cake, I think you need to understand that NJ has a huge NY transplate population so it gets complicated. I love my state but I get that we have those that are drawn by the international reputation that NYC has.


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#56 The 29th Pick

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:01 PM

If that logic holds true, then the Detroit Pistons, Ottawa Senators, NY Jets and NY Giants need to start building new arenas or find new places to play real soon.

dont forget them Cowboys


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#57 95Crash

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:25 PM

Yeah, because the previous "brand" had sh!t the bed. Attendance was terrible, the franchise was the laughingstock of the league. 

 

So they bought it, they planned out what would later be the Harrison arena with the connection to PATH and NJ Transit/Amtrak nearby. And calling it a "New York" team so that the growing demographic of young professionals from Downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn would come to games there on the subway absolutely made sense.

 

Not sound racist, but they decided to sign more European players instead of gimmicky Mexican and South American has-been players that used to target the local Hudson County demographic (where I live), which was a long-time failing strategy. French Thierry Henry, players from the English and German leagues, etc...

 

This is was a completely 180 degree Rebranding 101. It's like sprucing up a failing bankrupt deli in Jersey City and rebranding it as the Gotham Deli instead of the Pine Barrens Deli, and adding wraps and salads to what was already existing on the menu. As a local, 10 minutes away from the arena, 1) I still get to watch soccer in the vicinity; 2) they gave us a better arena; and 3) they're actually doing really well now.

 

I honestly don't think we'd have a franchise anymore if they rebranded in 2007 to be the New Jersey Metros. There'd be an expansion team in line to take our place faster than you could say "N.J."..

 

If they had named the team the New Jersey Red Bulls or Newark Red Bulls those same young professionals from Manhattan and Brooklyn could still have come to the brand new arena/stadium.

 

Believe it or not, there are a lot of New Jersey Devils fans from New York who come to Prudential Center in Newark even though New York City has two hockey teams. Those fans don't seem to mind the N.J. name.

 

Don't get me wrong. I understand the improvements that have been made to the soccer team. Even though I haven't been to a game in the new stadium, I'm sure everyone is having fun.

 

All I'm saying is it didn't have to happen the way they did it.

 

It's just ridiculous that the team that plays in Newark is called New Jersey but the team that plays one town over in Harrison is called New York. Yet both towns are in New Jersey.

 

Only in New Jersey is that OK.


Edited by 95Crash, 30 October 2013 - 04:48 PM.

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#58 Mike Brown

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:32 PM

dont forget them Cowboys

 

Also the 49ers are moving to Santa Clara next year.


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#59 The 29th Pick

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:37 PM

Also the 49ers are moving to Santa Clara next year.

nobody around here cares about them !!


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#60 Mike Brown

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

nobody around here cares about them !!

 

I do!  And there are a lot of 49ers fans on the East Coast.


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