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shooTOut success or lack thereof?


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#21 Devils731

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:09 PM

what i'd say is that we don't know how those guys look in practice. Clowe could be 10/10 in practice for all we know. The coaches knows. 

 

We got pretty lucky having Kovalchuk who was almost a sure shot goal (and we lost everytime he missed) and we had Zach who was really really really good too (of course most people here focus on the few missed in a row he got later in on season to convinced themselves that he was sh!t since he left) 

 

but fact is we have guys who "can" get the job done they are just not doing it.  Even Henrique on his penalty shot couldnt get it, so thats 0/9

 

Parise is a 46% career guy and Kovy is a 39% career guy.

 

Elias and Clowe are both 37% guys.

 

So just comparing those 4 guys, it's not like the Devils had slam dunk goal getters before and the 1 less goal every 20 attempts is the reason things are bad.  We, as Devils fans, are probably just sensitive to this because the Devils were on the good luck side of the shootout in the early years and now we're on the bad luck end of it.


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#22 NJDevs4978

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:16 PM

Clowe, Elias and Zajac percentagewise are really the best they have.  Plus Brunner who's like 2-9 including 0-2 this year, not a huge size sample though.  There's nothing they can do short of dragging Viktor Kozlov across the pond or get him from whatever the heck he's doing now and having him be a designated specialist.

 

They better at least be practicing the shootout this year though, I know Pete was loath to do it the last couple years but there's not much choice now.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 08 October 2013 - 06:18 PM.

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#23 Triumph

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:22 PM

Is there any evidence that practicing the shootout makes teams better at it?  I would imagine no.  Seems like a classic coach move to practice it unnecessarily.


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#24 maxpower

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:26 PM

Is there any evidence that practicing the shootout makes teams better at it?  I would imagine no.  Seems like a classic coach move to practice it unnecessarily.

 

Would give you an idea of some guys that may be better at it than others.   Not something I would be doing every week, though.   Seems like something you can do in camp as a "fun" exercise.   Or gas the players that miss.   Either way.


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#25 The 29th Pick

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:35 PM

Would give you an idea of some guys that may be better at it than others.   Not something I would be doing every week, though.   Seems like something you can do in camp as a "fun" exercise.   Or gas the players that miss.   Either way.

I'm sure they do breakaway drills and penalty shot simulations ...which are almost the same as a shootout attempt

and I bet some players do it on their own before or after practices


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#26 SterioDesign

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:52 PM

Parise is a 46% career guy and Kovy is a 39% career guy.

 

Elias and Clowe are both 37% guys.

 

So just comparing those 4 guys, it's not like the Devils had slam dunk goal getters before and the 1 less goal every 20 attempts is the reason things are bad.  We, as Devils fans, are probably just sensitive to this because the Devils were on the good luck side of the shootout in the early years and now we're on the bad luck end of it.

 

Well Kovy was never good until he and Marty had a chat and Marty gave him a trick on the angle to skate towards the goalie or something and since then he was almost scoring every times... look at what he was bringing US in the shootouts and its way more than 46%


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#27 Devils731

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

Well Kovy was never good until he and Marty had a chat and Marty gave him a trick on the angle to skate towards the goalie or something and since then he was almost scoring every times... look at what he was bringing US in the shootouts and its way more than 46%

 

Kovy - 2012-3:  2 for 6 - 33%

 

Kovy had 1 monster shootout season.  Since he wasn't great beforehand and wasn't great in a limited amount of time after I think it's more likely he's a pretty good shootout guy who bunched all his goals together in one monster season, rather than stunk, was ok, learned to be amazing, then forgot most of it and was ok again.


Edited by Devils731, 08 October 2013 - 06:57 PM.

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#28 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:28 PM

Jesus. It's getting to the point where I'd prefer seeing the moronic Rolston close-your-eyes wind and fire slapshot.


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#29 The 29th Pick

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:39 PM

one thing our guys do in the shootout is go in very slow....I wish they would just fly in and rip a shot off


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#30 Mike Brown

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:57 PM

one thing our guys do in the shootout is go in very slow....I wish they would just fly in and rip a shot off

 

When Kovy was at his best, that's what he did.  Keeping it simple in the shootout is sometimes the best option.


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#31 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:51 AM

I've always hated the shootout...always will.  Does nothing for me.  I never had a problem with ties, and using some goofy skills competition to decide a "winner" will always be ridiculous to me. 

 

As for the shootout itself...at the least the Devils were among the best at it from its inception through the end of the 2011-12 season.  There are teams who have NEVER been good at it.  But it was hard to think the Devils were going to dominate in it forever.  For one, it's not like the SO ever enters a GM's mind when he's building his team.  Yeah, it was great that guys like Parise happened to be very good at it from the beginning, and that Kovy was lights-out in it in 2011-12, and that Marty was strong at stopping shots in them.

 

But IF Parise wasn't any good at them, and Marty's save% in them was closer to .600 than .700, and many of the other Devils couldn't do much in them, does anyone think Lou is thinking to himself, "Geez, I'd better go find some guys who have a history of success in this thing"?   

 

This is one of many reasons why I don't like the shootout.  When the Devils were good at it, it wasn't like they did anything to make themselves better at it than anyone else...they were just fortunate to have players who had a knack for performing well in them (even friggin' Viktor Kozlov, who was pretty useless otherwise, did a nice job in them as a Devil).  Now it looks like it's going to go the other way for the foreseeable future.  I don't like the shootout because it's an event that's awarding an extra point based on little more than pure luck.  The actual event itself is based on a degree of it, but it's like I've said, if your team isn't inherently good at it, it's not like a GM is going to address that weakness the way he would another.  Have a lousy defense or need scoring?  You can draft players, make trades, or sign free agents to fill specific needs...of course, not all attempts to improve trouble areas produce positive results.  Suck in shootouts?  Oh well.    

 

Used to crack me up when Al Twatwig and the other Ranger homers were making it sound like the Rangers were almost purposely playing for shootouts because Lundqvist happened to be terrific in them, and also seemed to be giving credit to the Rangers for their success in them...as though the Rangers' braintrust had anything to do with the Rags' shootout prowess. 

 

If Lundqvist happened to suck in them (and there are good goalies who don't flourish in shootouts), does anyone think Glen Sather is scouring the league for a guy who's better in them?  No.

 

It's all based on happenstance...if you happen to have players who for whatever the reason(s) get it done in shootouts, you're good at them.  If you don't, you're screwed.  It's not like it's constantly coming up (if you're playing in more than 12 or so a year, that's a lot), but it comes up enough to be noticed. 

 

BTW the Devils still lead in all-time shootout wins (56-38 record) and shooting% (39.2) since in its inception.  They're 3rd in winning%.  Compare that with a team like Florida, who's always been lousy in them (33-56, 24.2 shooting%).  We're just beginning to understand what THAT team's fans have pretty much ALWAYS felt when a shootout is coming. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 09 October 2013 - 06:54 AM.

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#32 LynchDev

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:03 AM

I've always hated the shootout...always will.  Does nothing for me.  I never had a problem with ties, and using some goofy skills competition to decide a "winner" will always be ridiculous to me. 

 

As for the shootout itself...at the least the Devils were among the best at it from its inception through the end of the 2011-12 season.  There are teams who have NEVER been good at it.  But it was hard to think the Devils were going to dominate in it forever.  For one, it's not like the SO ever enters a GM's mind when he's building his team.  Yeah, it was great that guys like Parise happened to be very good at it from the beginning, and that Kovy was lights-out in it in 2011-12, and that Marty was strong at stopping shots in them.

 

But IF Parise wasn't any good at them, and Marty's save% in them was closer to .600 than .700, and many of the other Devils couldn't do much in them, does anyone think Lou is thinking to himself, "Geez, I'd better go find some guys who have a history of success in this thing"?   

 

This is one of many reasons why I don't like the shootout.  When the Devils were good at it, it wasn't like they did anything to make themselves better at it than anyone else...they were just fortunate to have players who had a knack for performing well in them (even friggin' Viktor Kozlov, who was pretty useless otherwise, did a nice job in them as a Devil).  Now it looks like it's going to go the other way for the foreseeable future.  I don't like the shootout because it's an event that's awarding an extra point based on little more than pure luck.  The actual event itself is based on a degree of it, but it's like I've said, if your team isn't inherently good at it, it's not like a GM is going to address that weakness the way he would another.  Have a lousy defense or need scoring?  You can draft players, make trades, or sign free agents to fill specific needs...of course, not all attempts to improve trouble areas produce positive results.  Suck in shootouts?  Oh well.    

 

Used to crack me up when Al Twatwig and the other Ranger homers were making it sound like the Rangers were almost purposely playing for shootouts because Lundqvist happened to be terrific in them, and also seemed to be giving credit to the Rangers for their success in them...as though the Rangers' braintrust had anything to do with the Rags' shootout prowess. 

 

If Lundqvist happened to suck in them (and there are good goalies who don't flourish in shootouts), does anyone think Glen Sather is scouring the league for a guy who's better in them?  No.

 

It's all based on happenstance...if you happen to have players who for whatever the reason(s) get it done in shootouts, you're good at them.  If you don't, you're screwed.  It's not like it's constantly coming up (if you're playing in more than 12 or so a year, that's a lot), but it comes up enough to be noticed. 

 

BTW the Devils still lead in all-time shootout wins (56-38 record) and shooting% (39.2) since in its inception.  They're 3rd in winning%.  Compare that with a team like Florida, who's always been lousy in them (33-56, 24.2 shooting%).  We're just beginning to understand what THAT team's fans have pretty much ALWAYS felt when a shootout is coming. 

Yea I agree, It does kinda suck that a skill contest does end a game, but I still like shootouts for the entertainment value. Nothing feels better than a win and nothing sucks more than a loss in these, but that's what makes them fun to watch. You dont know whats gonna happen. (And that is why we have overtime extended in the playoffs, to keep it from comming down to that.)


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#33 Vic Rattlehead18

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

Kovalchuk wasn't good in shootouts until he stole Parise's backhand move.


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#34 sundstrom

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:37 AM

Kovalchuk wasn't good in shootouts until he stole Parise's backhand move.

 

kovalchuk almost never used that. he just shot. that was marty's advice - you're shot is so good, you don't need a deek. come in on proper angle and just make your shot.


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#35 2ELIAS6

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:40 AM

i wouldnt mind ties either but the shootout does bring some excitement i guess.
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#36 Mike Brown

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

10 minute OT.  I'd prefer something like five minutes of 5 on 5, and five minutes of 4 on 4.


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#37 SterioDesign

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:42 PM

wow...the guys are practicing shootouts right now... TG is reporting the results... its horrible

 

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#38 TheRedStorm

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:50 PM

wow...the guys are practicing shootouts right now... TG is reporting the results... its horrible

 

Harrold, Olesz, Volchenkov, Clowe only players to score. No one scored twice.

At least none of them tripped over the blue line or injured themselves. It's something to build on.


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