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#301 DJ Eco

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:58 AM

LOu dont decide of the lineup... Lou acquire player with needs etc, but only deboer decide who he plays who he keeps etc...

 

The decision to play harrold and gionta belongs to deboer himself...

 

So bottom line is Lou gives the tool... you do what you want with it (same with the goalie)

 

Another coach could plays gélinas josefson merril waive gionta harrold etc and lou wouldnt mind....

 

Just look at tallinder... He was trade because we had to much D yes... but he was on pete black list

 

If you dont believe me, read pat burns biography it explain how lou works... he hire people and trust them till it doesnt work anymore. Burns make some decision that wasnt popular (Daneyko scratch) but lou tell him :if you think it the best for our team, do it...

 

I'm surprised he gives coaches that level of trust. I pictured him to be more of a control freak, even pulling some strings from the GM's desk.


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#302 caron14

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:27 AM

I was surprised too... He controls everything in the organisation... but he trust people... he hire a coach to coach the team choose his lineup to have success...

 

the day he will have to tell the coach what to do , well he will fire him... So he trust deboer right now.. but if this team continue to struggle and he dont see changes, Lamoriello will move for sure


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#303 Pepperkorn

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:48 AM

I beleive Lou is not a micro manager.  Because it's ineffective for the most part.  Lou's pretty logical.  Trust trumps all hence we have guys like SGio who he trusts - this is more important than literal on ice production almost to the point of lunacy.  Sounds like I just contradicted the point?  Nope.  Lou trust DeBoer understands what he values.  DeBoer thus values not mere loyalty but predictability/trustworthy, reliable expected outcomes.  Thus you know what Sal will give you.  You know what Gio will give you.  Fayne - might go one way or the other - but you can rely you can't predict the result -- so scrap him then?  That's what lou's guidelines dictate.  It's up to Lou to change those guidelines.

 

See how it is?  Micro-messaging more than actual managing. If Lou loses track then he has to get his ass in there throw some jelly jars warning guys not to get cute with his directives/ OR try to second guess in times of peril.  Directive is ALWAYS stay the course.

 

It's down to Lou to re-direct DeBoer.


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#304 Jerzey Devil

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:47 AM

How long before the new owners step in (if at all)? I know they trust Lou and admire everything he's done for this organization but how long before they start to lose faith in him? I hate to even bring it up because every time this team starts losing everyone calls for Lou's head, but at what point does it become a valid question, especially to the new owners? Surely some of this mess falls on Lou's shoulders (kids not playing, UFA's walking, drafting Matteau instead of forfeiting the pick, Kovy, etc.).

 

Side question, does anyone think the new owners are the ones responsible for getting rid of R&R pt 2?


Edited by Jerzey Devil, 15 October 2013 - 10:48 AM.

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#305 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:55 AM

There's a whole thread directed to attempting the answer that "side question", lol.

 

I think Lou is definitely less safe now than he ever was (VBK was a Devils fan first...I think if he had continued to be the majority owner, then Lou probably would've had Sather-like job security for life).  That doesn't mean I think the new owners would be quick to fire him...I just don't think Lou is bulletproof with these guys. 

 

It's too early to call this mess, hard as it has been to watch.  I hate 0-3-3 as much as everyone else, but I can't talk about owners stepping in and trying to figure out who's responsible for a mess just yet.


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#306 Triumph

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:55 AM

How long before the new owners step in (if at all)? I know they trust Lou and admire everything he's done for this organization but how long before they start to lose faith in him? I hate to even bring it up because every time this team starts losing everyone calls for Lou's head, but at what point does it become a valid question, especially to the new owners? Surely some of this mess falls on Lou's shoulders (kids not playing, UFA's walking, drafting Matteau instead of forfeiting the pick, Kovy, etc.).

 

Side question, does anyone think the new owners are the ones responsible for getting rid of R&R pt 2?

 

The new owners raved about Lou.  And what mess?  The team is 0-3-3 while breaking even in shots for/against at ES.  Things will turn around.


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#307 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:02 AM

The new owners raved about Lou.  And what mess?  The team is 0-3-3 while breaking even in shots for/against at ES.  Things will turn around.

 

we all said that based on "stats" that they'd turn it around last year and we said the same thing about the Leafs who would crash and burn... at the end of the day its who was in the playoffs that counts.

 

i dont look back at standings from 1987 and thinking... well that team wasnt in the playoffs that year but they had a positive shots for/against at ES.! moral victory


Edited by SterioDesign, 15 October 2013 - 11:11 AM.

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#308 Pepperkorn

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

It's not a mess at all.  In fact - it's probably more commercially viable now since my taste is generally off-market by miles.

 

New oweners won't hold Lou accountable in the near future anyhow.


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#309 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:22 AM

we all said that based on "stats" that they'd turn it around last year and we said the same thing about the Leafs who would crash and burn... at the end of the day its who was in the playoffs that counts.

 

i dont look back at standings from 1987 and thinking... well that team wasnt in the playoffs that year but they had a positive shots for/against at ES.! moral victory

 

Tri's a slave to that stuff, but the team will improve.  The aggregate save% will go up in the Devils' end...it's at .893 right now.  Should be in the .910s somewhere by season's end.  How high in the .910s depends on how many starts Schneider gets.

 

As long as they get that kind of goaltending, I think the Devils wind up somewhere somewhere between 50%-60% in season point percentage (82-98 points), depending on if they can score enough.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#310 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:40 AM

Tri's a slave to that stuff, but the team will improve.  The aggregate save% will go up in the Devils' end...it's at .893 right now.  Should be in the .910s somewhere by season's end.  How high in the .910s depends on how many starts Schneider gets.

 

As long as they get that kind of goaltending, I think the Devils wind up somewhere somewhere between 50%-60% in season point percentage (82-98 points), depending on if they can score enough.   

 

what we have to understand here is that those numbers are mostly bullsh!t when they are not put in situations. Hockey games can go in any directions, at the end of the day it sucks but its not always the best team who win and all that matters is the results. We can try to sugarcoat it with stats but its not helping anything

 

Lets say we play a team, we outshot them 55-11. We can't fvcking create "good chances" or bury our chances and the games ends 1-1 after OT and we go to SO and none of our shooters score and we lose.

 

We'd have one hell of a good game corsi-wise but we'd still lose.

 

Or our guys scores 6 goals in a low shooting game where we get really opportunist but our goalies are sh!t and we lose 6-7 in OT. What does that say?

 

of course games like that can't happen often but still, we saw those specific games so often last season and its showing this year too.


Edited by SterioDesign, 15 October 2013 - 11:44 AM.

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#311 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

what we have to understand here is that those numbers are mostly bullsh!t when they are not put in situations. Hockey games can go in any directions, at the end of the day it sucks but its not always the best team who win and all that matters is the results. We can try to sugarcoat it with stats but its not helping anything

 

Lets say we play a team, we outshot them 55-11. We can't fvcking create "good chances" or bury our chances and the games ends 1-1 after OT and we go to SO and none of our shooters score and we lose.

 

We'd have one hell of a good game corsi-wise but we'd still lose.

 

Or our guys scores 6 goals in a low shooting game where we get really opportunist but our goalies are sh!t and we lose 6-7 in OT. What does that say?

 

of course games like that can't happen often but still, we saw those specific games so often last season and its showing this year too.

But you see you've already built into your post, Tri's answer to it. Games like that can't happen often means they're not "sustainable." Therefore over time you'll see less of those games than the average game which will be based more upon the stats Tri favors. Whether or not this is actually true I suppose depends on how big of a range of games you take and just how low you figure the odds of one of those anomalous games to be.


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#312 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:59 AM

But you see you've already built into your post, Tri's answer to it. Games like that can't happen often means they're not "sustainable." Therefore over time you'll see less of those games than the average game which will be based more upon the stats Tri favors. Whether or not this is actually true I suppose depends on how big of a range of games you take and just how low you figure the odds of one of those anomalous games to be.

 

yeah but if a bad stretch last too long you dig yourself a hole you can't come out off (See 2010) you have to be "awesome" for a long stretch to overcome it. And we're only average in our best i'd assume.


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#313 coldply123

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:00 PM

New owners will get rid of Lou if they wish. I wouldn't put any stock into what they said at the equivalent of a pep rally. Even despite the threat of a firing how many yrs does Lou honestly have left in a perfect world. Not many.

The next GM is coming from outside the organization without a doubt whether Lou likes it or not. The owners are just playing the time card and will move Lou out gracefully on their terms.
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#314 Triumph

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

New owners will get rid of Lou if they wish. I wouldn't put any stock into what they said at the equivalent of a pep rally. Even despite the threat of a firing how many yrs does Lou honestly have left in a perfect world. Not many.

The next GM is coming from outside the organization without a doubt whether Lou likes it or not. The owners are just playing the time card and will move Lou out gracefully on their terms.

 

That seems incredibly unlikely - that Lou, having had 26 years on the job, won't get to both retire on his own terms and/or pick his successor (provided nothing goes remarkably wrong between then and now) and again you are projecting your dislike of Lamoriello on to the new owners.  


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#315 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

what we have to understand here is that those numbers are mostly bullsh!t when they are not put in situations. Hockey games can go in any directions, at the end of the day it sucks but its not always the best team who win and all that matters is the results. We can try to sugarcoat it with stats but its not helping anything

 

Lets say we play a team, we outshot them 55-11. We can't fvcking create "good chances" or bury our chances and the games ends 1-1 after OT and we go to SO and none of our shooters score and we lose.

 

We'd have one hell of a good game corsi-wise but we'd still lose.

 

Or our guys scores 6 goals in a low shooting game where we get really opportunist but our goalies are sh!t and we lose 6-7 in OT. What does that say?

 

of course games like that can't happen often but still, we saw those specific games so often last season and its showing this year too.

 

No mention of Corsis and Fenwicks in my post.

 

I'm also not dividing up numbers here (shots at 5-on-5, shots at 5-on-4, etc).  I'm keeping it pretty simple.  Last year, as we all know, the Devils couldn't put pucks in the opponent's net and couldn't stop them from going into their own.  So the nice big shot advantage, in terms of simple shots-for/shot-against, was pretty much negated.

 

With Schneider in the fold, and last year's worst puck-stopper (Hedberg) out of the mix, the save% WILL get better, and should by a significant margin.  So one of the main bugaboos from last season is going to be better. 

 

As far as putting the puck in the other guy's net...different story.  In this regard they probably don't figure to be that much better than last year's team.  What we're all praying for is that Zajac, Henrique, and Clowe can start combining for more than one goal every 6 games between them.  Zajac has 12 SOG, Henrique has 9, for what that's worth...at least they're GETTING shots.  Clowe's 4 through 6 games is a lot more alarming...his career rate is over 2 SOG per game.  And he looks terrible right now. 

 

Devils also have to find a way to start getting more SOG per game overall...they haven't cracked 30 yet.  Only 23.25 SPG in their last four.  Small sample, but needs to change.  


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 15 October 2013 - 12:09 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#316 Triumph

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:09 PM

yeah but if a bad stretch last too long you dig yourself a hole you can't come out off (See 2010) you have to be "awesome" for a long stretch to overcome it. And we're only average in our best i'd assume.

 

You can't assume that.  The Devils are going to win 3 games in a row at some point during the season.  They may even win 5 in a row, if they're good.  These things happen, even to bad teams.


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#317 redruM

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:15 PM

that doesnt mean anything anymore bro im sorry... everyone is all caught up in that memory still with deboer. ALOT has changed since then its not even close to the same team since then weve lost two superstar players in kovy and parise clarkson took a hike too..

Exactly, how is it the coaches fault the the team loast 2 stars in 2 years??  how do you expet any coach to succeed!  Plus the fact the LL, keeps Vol, Harrold & Zid who are all playing poorly??  How is that PDB fault?


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#318 Triumph

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 02:28 PM

TG's latest suggests that DeBoer is seeing the same exact things we are:

 

http://blogs.northje...game_push_pace/


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#319 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

TG's latest suggests that DeBoer is seeing the same exact things we are:

 

http://blogs.northje...game_push_pace/

 

How can we activate Tedenby? Doesn't that put us over roster max?

 

Never mind, TG already said it would put us over and we'd need to open a spot for him.


Edited by NewarkDevil5, 15 October 2013 - 03:37 PM.

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#320 MadDog2020

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:05 PM

TG's latest suggests that DeBoer is seeing the same exact things we are:

http://blogs.northje...game_push_pace/

His line combos and defense pairings tell me he doesn't.


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