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The Pete Deboer Thread


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#41 John Wensink

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

I forgot the game is tomorrow too. LOL. Maybe GIO will pull a groin in practice.
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#42 redruM

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:15 AM

Well Lemaire was doing it and we were fine with it. It's only frustrating cause we're not winning. If we'd be winning we'd be thinking... fvck we have an awesome lineup with interchangeable players who can play with anyone in any situations.

Untrue.. .Lemaire drove me crazy with the ever changing lines, which seemed much more random than PDB, my biggest frustration is w/ the chosen dmen, and im not sure if thats PDB or LL.


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#43 eaglejelly

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:17 AM

Untrue.. .Lemaire drove me crazy with the ever changing lines, which seemed much more random than PDB, my biggest frustration is w/ the chosen dmen, and im not sure if thats PDB or LL.

Yea, that Lemaire guy just had no clue what he was doing


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#44 nessus

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:30 AM

Was Loktionov bad in the last game? I didn't get to see the whole thing because it was late. I saw that he was benched for some time in the second, but I didn't notice him playing badly. Is it possible he's a bit hurt?


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#45 Marshall

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:39 AM

I'm almost at the point where I don't care about results, I just want to see the best line-up. Yeah, I shouldn't be a coach, I know.


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#46 Triumph

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:51 AM

Was Loktionov bad in the last game? I didn't get to see the whole thing because it was late. I saw that he was benched for some time in the second, but I didn't notice him playing badly. Is it possible he's a bit hurt?

 

No, he played poorly, and his line wasn't much better.  Between that and the Edmonton game, where he was generally good but made a bad read on the Hall goal, there are some weaker points in his game that I'd like to see ironed out.


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#47 DJ Eco

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:59 AM

Deboer really knows how to frustrate the fans. For a while I thought maybe it was just us, the diehards that follow all these moves 24/7 and maybe make a bigger deal of this stuff than most and rile ourselves up.

 

But that Tom Gulitti joke about Fedorov really tells me that more people are noticing what's wrong here...


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#48 NJDevs4978

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:59 AM

Wow I thought that was a joke tweet at first, if it was possible to 'like' Tweets a la Facebook statuses, I'd create a Twitter account just to like it.
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#49 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:27 AM

OK, Carter in, fine. Doesn't bother me much, although I'd kinda like to see what Josefson can do. But Loktionov out?! And Gionta stays in?!

 

Let's look at some statistics of the simple sort (because I just plain don't want to spend the time to understand the advanced ones).

 

Loktionov

G > 0

A > 1

Pt > 1

+/- > -1

FO% > .528

SOG > 4

 

Gionta

G > 0

A > 0

Pt > 0

+/- > -3

FO% > .286

SOG > 1

 

Now I'm no genius, but I think it's better for a centerman to have a higher point total, faceoff percentage, shots on goal, and plus minus.


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#50 MadDog2020

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:31 AM

Just saw the practice lines for tonights game. I give up.At least there is this:Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice 3mSergei Fedorov coming out of retirement in Russia. Alert to Devils: Sign him. Another old guy you can dress over a young player.AMEN!

Right on TG. But we also need TG to ask the tough questions here. DeBoer needs to be challenged as to why he continually makes these horrible lineup decisions.
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#51 MadDog2020

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:33 AM

DeBoer has definitively sent the message: if you're a young guy, don't make even one mistake. If you're a vet, suck with impunity. This is out and out garbage and has gotten completely out of hand. The Florida fans were right about the way DeBoer handles young players- he's awful at it.
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#52 BigZ

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:34 AM

I've just never seen a team blow so many leads before and it's been happening since he's been coach.
Now it's at a point where I feel like the team is always going to lose even when they're up by two or three and that's just fvcked up.
That's the only argument I have..it's the blowing leads and having absolutely pathetic 3rd periods and the fact that they've become expected now is unacceptable and something needs to change.
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#53 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:35 AM

Just saw the practice lines for tonights game. I give up.

At least there is this:

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice 3m
Sergei Fedorov coming out of retirement in Russia. Alert to Devils: Sign him. Another old guy you can dress over a young player.

AMEN!

 

Y'know, as a side note, he's the GM of the team he came out of retirement and signed with. Can you imagine? Sign yourself to a contract with the team and then your teammates better damn well pass you the puck when you want it because otherwise they get cut or traded to Siberia!


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#54 Daniel

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

DeBoer has definitively sent the message: if you're a young guy, don't make even one mistake. If you're a vet, suck with impunity. This is out and out garbage and has gotten completely out of hand. The Florida fans were right about the way DeBoer handles young players- he's awful at it.

 

This is the way it is with a lot of coaches.  Torts got the same complaints about Kredier, Miller, and Del Zoto for a little while.  Yeah he got fired, but he had a fairly successful run as the coach.  Julien appears to be handling Doug Hamilton's development the same way.  As Tri noted, Lemaire toyed around with Elias at the beginning of his career also, to the point that I have a vague recollection of hearing the same sorts of grumblings from Elias at the time that we're hearing from Larsson. 

 

I agree though that at some point, the lineup juggling becomes self-defeating.  I'll try and give PDB the benefit of the doubt that he's still trying to figure out certain players fit. 


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#55 BigZ

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

People need to not make such an argument for Josefson.
He's not good.
He's weak, slow and always gets hurt.
Please stop begging for him to be in the line up just because of his pre season stats.
Look at how good Schnieders preseason was.
It doesn't mean anything.
I'm actually backing PDB on that decision.
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#56 SMantzas

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:54 AM

People need to not make such an argument for Josefson.
He's not good.
He's weak, slow and always gets hurt.
Please stop begging for him to be in the line up just because of his pre season stats.
Look at how good Schnieders preseason was.
It doesn't mean anything.
I'm actually backing PDB on that decision.

If you can explain how Stephen Gionta is better than Josefson, I'll back off. Until then, I think Deboer should be criticized


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#57 Triumph

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:58 AM

This is the way it is with a lot of coaches.  Torts got the same complaints about Kredier, Miller, and Del Zoto for a little while.  Yeah he got fired, but he had a fairly successful run as the coach.  Julien appears to be handling Doug Hamilton's development the same way.  As Tri noted, Lemaire toyed around with Elias at the beginning of his career also, to the point that I have a vague recollection of hearing the same sorts of grumblings from Elias at the time that we're hearing from Larsson. 

 

I agree though that at some point, the lineup juggling becomes self-defeating.  I'll try and give PDB the benefit of the doubt that he's still trying to figure out certain players fit. 

 

The season is an 82 game audition for the playoffs.  Now granted, you can't start making crazy lineup decisions, and I hate seeing stuff lost at the margins, so I wouldn't like it if Loktionov is scratched and I don't like Josefson being scratched, but the Devils have the luxury of having 7 capable D and 14 capable forwards, so it's a question which of them get in every night.  Point is that if the Devils can make the correct decisions by the time the playoffs roll around (assuming they're in them), whatever led up to making those decisions isn't (much of) an issue with me.


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#58 SMantzas

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

The season is an 82 game audition for the playoffs.  Now granted, you can't start making crazy lineup decisions, and I hate seeing stuff lost at the margins, so I wouldn't like it if Loktionov is scratched and I don't like Josefson being scratched, but the Devils have the luxury of having 7 capable D and 14 capable forwards, so it's a question which of them get in every night.  Point is that if the Devils can make the correct decisions by the time the playoffs roll around (assuming they're in them), whatever led up to making those decisions isn't (much of) an issue with me.

There is a human aspect I feel you are ignoring. If you're a young player and get benched for making only a few mistakes, its going to affect your game when you do get a chance. I know Deboer has his favorites and that life isn't fair, but some players have advantages others don't, which leads to the conclusion that all things are not equal and we shouldn't have faith in Deboer to choose the correct players due to his obvious bias towards and against certain players


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#59 Triumph

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:32 PM

There is a human aspect I feel you are ignoring. If you're a young player and get benched for making only a few mistakes, its going to affect your game when you do get a chance. I know Deboer has his favorites and that life isn't fair, but some players have advantages others don't, which leads to the conclusion that all things are not equal and we shouldn't have faith in Deboer to choose the correct players due to his obvious bias towards and against certain players

 

DeBoer put Josefson in over Sykora in the 2012 playoffs.  He put Larsson in over Harrold in the 2012 playoffs.  The idea that he is categorically wedded to veterans over young players is false.

 

It's one of those things:  if it affects your game to be taken out like that, then the problem is on your end and not on the coach's.  It's one thing to play well and to be 'punished' by being benched, it's another to make mistakes and be benched.  The goal is eradicating the sort of mistakes that lead to benching. 

 

It takes a while to play yourself out of the coach's good graces.  Josefson himself got over 20 games in 2012-13 to do so - he was playing a lot at the beginning of that season, too.


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#60 DJ Eco

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

This is the way it is with a lot of coaches.  Torts got the same complaints about Kredier, Miller, and Del Zoto for a little while.  Yeah he got fired, but he had a fairly successful run as the coach.  Julien appears to be handling Doug Hamilton's development the same way.  As Tri noted, Lemaire toyed around with Elias at the beginning of his career also, to the point that I have a vague recollection of hearing the same sorts of grumblings from Elias at the time that we're hearing from Larsson. 

 

I agree though that at some point, the lineup juggling becomes self-defeating.  I'll try and give PDB the benefit of the doubt that he's still trying to figure out certain players fit. 

 

 

Completely disagree. Tortorella was the exact opposite of DeBoer in this regard.

 

Tortorella gave a shot to a young McDonaugh. Kid took the opportunity, and played his heart out for his coach. Similarly, young guys like Stepan, Hagelin, John Moore last year, and even Del Zotto a few years ago, were treated by Tortorella like men, not kids, and honestly looked like some of the Rangers' best players on any given night (aside from MDZ past couple years). He gave them responsibility and held them to the same standard of accountability that he held older guys like Gaborik (at the time) , Dubinsky (at the time), and Richards.

 

I don't think DeBoer should do what Tortorella did, I mean, we see how that ended. But a middle ground of letting the kids wear the man pants and treated with respect, while not being afraid to sit a veteran, somewhere along that middle point is what DeBoer should be working towards. This seniority bullsh!t isn't working. There's only so far a veteran presence can take a team.


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