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isles aquire vanek. large deal


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#41 thecoffeecake

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

So you guys want to dump prospects to rent vanek for a last place season?
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#42 capo

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:28 PM

I saw Vanek play many times while he was a member of the Rochester Americans.  He's the real deal.  I would do Josefson and Larsson under the current circumstances.


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#43 Devilsfan118

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

I saw Vanek play many times while he was a member of the Rochester Americans.  He's the real deal.  I would do Josefson and Larsson under the current circumstances.

 

Well then I'm glad you're not GM, because that's lunacy.


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#44 Triumph

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:32 PM

Not to mention that doesn't fit under the salary cap.


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#45 capo

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:55 PM

I didn't look at the cap numbers.  

 

Well then I'm glad you're not GM, because that's lunacy.

Really?  Two overhyped young players for one quality top line player.  You're right it would be lunacy from Buffalo's perspective...


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#46 NJDevs4978

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:09 PM

You might only be getting the top line player for one year, that's the lunacy part of it.  And even if you do re-sign Vanek he's getting big money in the back end of his career, that hasn't exactly backfired on us before.


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#47 capo

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:14 PM

You might only be getting the top line player for one year, that's the lunacy part of it.  And even if you do re-sign Vanek he's getting big money in the back end of his career, that hasn't exactly backfired on us before.

There are no good contracts in this league any more. Therefore, if you want quality you have to pay for it at some point...


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#48 DJ Eco

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:32 PM

There are no good contracts in this league any more. Therefore, if you want quality you have to pay for it at some point...

 

Ryder's a pretty damn good contract.


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#49 ATLL765

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

The issue with Vanek is there is about a 90 percent chance he signs with the Wild in the offseason so unless the Devils were able to hammer out the structure of a long-term contract at the time of the trade, it would be a fool's errand to go that route. I currently live in Minneapolis and I can tell you there are plenty of people associated with the Wild who believe it's going to be a done deal (Vanek to Minn) in 2014-2015.

Nothing is a done deal that far in advance in the NHL. Also not sure how anyone could be so confident on that when Minn can't even talk contract with Vanek.
 

Vanek, at this moment in time, isn't a good fit here.  I like him and his scoring prowess, but the Devils need to shed some of the power-forward type players (ala Ryder / Clowe) and get some speed.

 

The Devils are simply a team that have a bunch of "spare parts" that perhaps would be successful on other teams as parter of the larger whole, but on this team aren't exactly clicking on all cylinders.

 

I would like to see two young prospect defensemen (ala Gelinas and Merril) and Boucher / Teddy / YaYo play with more consistency.

 

If we're gonna throw away the season before game 10, might as well get the younger lads in games so that they can get some work in.  No need to have a group of overpaid, undermotivated, underachievers on the ice IMO.

I don't think I or anyone for that matter would call Ryder a power forward.


Edited by ATLL765, 14 October 2013 - 05:17 PM.

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#50 ATLL765

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:17 PM

Oops.


Edited by ATLL765, 14 October 2013 - 05:17 PM.

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#51 CarpathianForest

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:36 PM

Vanek is a total defensive liability.


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#52 capo

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:05 PM

Vanek is a total defensive liability.

Like all of our defensemen...


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#53 Devilsfan118

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

The absolute LAST thing I want, and I think this team needs, is another 30+ year old forward on a long contract.
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#54 CarterforPresident

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:34 PM

He also is inconsistent with scoring like kovy he'll disappear a lot.. He aint worth it. Losing two prospects fora rental. Nope.
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#55 Neb00rs

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:05 PM

Just on the idea of acquiring Vanek, my initial response is "that would be awesome!" But then as I sit back and think about it, I get this logical (cynical?) voice in my head that says, "Okay c'mon you know this is not the answer." Trading for Vanek would be a morale/excitement boost but it's a step towards stagnancy. We need to find the fundamental issues that have plagued this team for the least year and for the last decade as a whole (i.e. how to recover post-Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski).

 

I am done rooting for the band-aid; we do't need that "missing piece," we need to put the pieces we have together. Yes, we made an incredible run to the Cup final two seasons ago, but in large part we have lost our meanness, failed to intimidate, failed to score goals and failed to mesh as a team.

 

I am sick of doing this:  :horse: , this:  :doh1:  and this:  :dizzy: over the past decade. We don't need deep statistical analysis here, we don't need the pangs of denial and we certainly don't need that ONE superstar scorer to make all our dreams come true; it just ain't it kids.

 

We need one GIANT team PAUSE. The players, the fans...we all need to just sit and take a breather. We need to eliminate all the garbage and complex theories created over the decade. We need simplicity again - a blank slate. I don't care if we have to lose games for awhile: stop changing things up. Stop taking the kids out of the lineup - they ain't going to be stars overnight - let them play and learn.

 

And absolutely no more big contracts for veteran defensemen and wingers who are on the 40 side of 30 - especially not to reward them for being a sweet individual. Jagr, like Brendan Shanahan is a gimmick. When the Devils sign Jaromir Jagr that should tell everyone on this board that we are a team with an illness.

 

No more win the Cup this year or die; it ain't going to happen that way and will only waste more time. Teach the kids to play, teach the kids to be Devils. I really don't want to wait until 2016, 17, 18 to be champions again but even more I definitely don't want to be going like this:  :horse:  still in 2018.

I don't miss "boring" Devils hockey - that's never coming back. I do however, miss having a confident, consistent and passionate Devils team.  :burn:

 

What we have know is making me so dizzy. PUCK. STICKS. SKATES: that's what should be on the team's to do list and that EVERYTHING that should be on the list; we can add tasks as we go. 


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#56 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:20 AM

Just on the idea of acquiring Vanek, my initial response is "that would be awesome!" But then as I sit back and think about it, I get this logical (cynical?) voice in my head that says, "Okay c'mon you know this is not the answer." Trading for Vanek would be a morale/excitement boost but it's a step towards stagnancy. We need to find the fundamental issues that have plagued this team for the least year and for the last decade as a whole (i.e. how to recover post-Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski).

 

I am done rooting for the band-aid; we do't need that "missing piece," we need to put the pieces we have together. Yes, we made an incredible run to the Cup final two seasons ago, but in large part we have lost our meanness, failed to intimidate, failed to score goals and failed to mesh as a team.

 

I am sick of doing this:  :horse: , this:  :doh1:  and this:  :dizzy: over the past decade. We don't need deep statistical analysis here, we don't need the pangs of denial and we certainly don't need that ONE superstar scorer to make all our dreams come true; it just ain't it kids.

 

We need one GIANT team PAUSE. The players, the fans...we all need to just sit and take a breather. We need to eliminate all the garbage and complex theories created over the decade. We need simplicity again - a blank slate. I don't care if we have to lose games for awhile: stop changing things up. Stop taking the kids out of the lineup - they ain't going to be stars overnight - let them play and learn.

 

And absolutely no more big contracts for veteran defensemen and wingers who are on the 40 side of 30 - especially not to reward them for being a sweet individual. Jagr, like Brendan Shanahan is a gimmick. When the Devils sign Jaromir Jagr that should tell everyone on this board that we are a team with an illness.

 

No more win the Cup this year or die; it ain't going to happen that way and will only waste more time. Teach the kids to play, teach the kids to be Devils. I really don't want to wait until 2016, 17, 18 to be champions again but even more I definitely don't want to be going like this:  :horse:  still in 2018.

I don't miss "boring" Devils hockey - that's never coming back. I do however, miss having a confident, consistent and passionate Devils team.  :burn:

 

What we have know is making me so dizzy. PUCK. STICKS. SKATES: that's what should be on the team's to do list and that EVERYTHING that should be on the list; we can add tasks as we go. 

 

Y'know, that's the first thing to make sense on this board in a while (and that includes my own senseless ramblings). I agree wholeheartedly with this.


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#57 bekim

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:29 AM

To me the only way it makes sense is if Buffalo is willing to eat a bad contract for us, which would represent the "value" in it for us.  Ie, we send something like Henrique (whom they may have legit interest in) + Volchenkov (bad contract) for the Vanek rental.  It essentially offers them a real player who is under contract for a while who has potential, but they also free us from several more years of Volchenkov.  Whether it's "worth" it depends on how much better we'd be without those guys.  It probably means Josefson gets a nightly spot, and it means Fayne gets a nightly spot.  And *hopefully* it means a bottom feeder forward (like Gionta) is pressed out.


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#58 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:49 AM

Neb00rs, understand the simplicity angle, but Kovy leaving kind of forced Lou's hand, in trying to put a team on the ice that could compete for a playoff berth.  That led to the Jagr and Ryder-type signings.   

 

You know how this works...you're getting to the potential end of an extended run of success, and you're trying to stay up there a little longer.  When the players you need to sustain it aren't coming up through your system, you go out and sign guys you hope will work out and address specific weaknesses (lose Clarkson, sign Clowe).  Unfortunately, as we've seen with some of those signings, you're picking and choosing players who grew up with different coaches and systems, and now you're trying to mold those players into doing things YOUR way.  I'm not saying that it CAN'T be done, but it's not easy, and probably not Lou's favorite way to build a team. 

 

Yeah, there are times I almost wish Lou could really blank-slate it, just erase the whole chalkboard and start over, but sometimes when you blow it all up, you never stop rebuilding either. 

 

There's no obvious right answer, and I do believe that this team is NOT going to be disaster this season, but hopefully the Devils start getting players from within again, sooner rather than later.      


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 15 October 2013 - 09:51 AM.

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#59 Pepperkorn

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:57 AM



Just on the idea of acquiring Vanek, my initial response is "that would be awesome!" But then as I sit back and think about it, I get this logical (cynical?) voice in my head that says, "Okay c'mon you know this is not the answer." Trading for Vanek would be a morale/excitement boost but it's a step towards stagnancy. We need to find the fundamental issues that have plagued this team for the least year and for the last decade as a whole (i.e. how to recover post-Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski).

 

I am done rooting for the band-aid; we do't need that "missing piece," we need to put the pieces we have together. Yes, we made an incredible run to the Cup final two seasons ago, but in large part we have lost our meanness, failed to intimidate, failed to score goals and failed to mesh as a team.

 

I am sick of doing this:  :horse: , this:  :doh1:  and this:  :dizzy: over the past decade. We don't need deep statistical analysis here, we don't need the pangs of denial and we certainly don't need that ONE superstar scorer to make all our dreams come true; it just ain't it kids.

 

We need one GIANT team PAUSE. The players, the fans...we all need to just sit and take a breather. We need to eliminate all the garbage and complex theories created over the decade. We need simplicity again - a blank slate. I don't care if we have to lose games for awhile: stop changing things up. Stop taking the kids out of the lineup - they ain't going to be stars overnight - let them play and learn.

 

And absolutely no more big contracts for veteran defensemen and wingers who are on the 40 side of 30 - especially not to reward them for being a sweet individual. Jagr, like Brendan Shanahan is a gimmick. When the Devils sign Jaromir Jagr that should tell everyone on this board that we are a team with an illness.

 

No more win the Cup this year or die; it ain't going to happen that way and will only waste more time. Teach the kids to play, teach the kids to be Devils. I really don't want to wait until 2016, 17, 18 to be champions again but even more I definitely don't want to be going like this:  :horse:  still in 2018.

I don't miss "boring" Devils hockey - that's never coming back. I do however, miss having a confident, consistent and passionate Devils team.  :burn:

 

What we have know is making me so dizzy. PUCK. STICKS. SKATES: that's what should be on the team's to do list and that EVERYTHING that should be on the list; we can add tasks as we go. 

:hail:   It probably looks too much like one of my posts for anyone to actually comprehend what you wrote. :giggle:

 

 

 

 

 

werdsmiley.gif


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#60 Colin226

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:05 AM

To me the only way it makes sense is if Buffalo is willing to eat a bad contract for us, which would represent the "value" in it for us.  Ie, we send something like Henrique (whom they may have legit interest in) + Volchenkov (bad contract) for the Vanek rental.  It essentially offers them a real player who is under contract for a while who has potential, but they also free us from several more years of Volchenkov.  Whether it's "worth" it depends on how much better we'd be without those guys.  It probably means Josefson gets a nightly spot, and it means Fayne gets a nightly spot.  And *hopefully* it means a bottom feeder forward (like Gionta) is pressed out.

 

Why not do this but also include a conditional pick if Vanek doesn't resign? I'm pretty sure that's allowed in the NHL, right?


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