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#81 DH26

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:46 PM

this reeks of people who don't know anything trying to evaluate offensive lineman. Casual people like us don't see the whole play from the beginning at every aspect like on coach's tape and while there are some problems, to call him a bust when he's 20 just makes you look like the kind of guy who wants to bench RGIII in washington 


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#82 hystyk28

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:21 PM

The 4th overall pick turning into a second pairing defenseman would be a disappointment to say the least.


His draft pick number isn't his fault. In fact he was if I recall correctly in conversation for the #1 overall. In a weird twist of fate, NJ wins the lottery and at that time, they didn't have a PMD anywhere in sight. Perfect fit right? Unfortunately, he was thrown right in and as we have seen(for various reasons), the results just don't seem to be there, yet. I base all my bashing on what I see, and that is a timid, poor skating d-man that can make nice 60 foot pssses and a shot that needs work from the top.(although I suspect this is a team tactic that just blows)

I hope for all Devil's fans sake that he takes the next step or 3 and becones what we all hope he can be. I just don't see it happening.
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#83 snartly

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:24 PM

All I ask is for Larsson to not become a Cam Barker
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#84 DJ Eco

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

He's 20!!!! What's wrong with you people!


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#85 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:17 PM

You're comparing him to players to don't match his style. Larsson was never a big point producer. It isn't really his game. This is not a fantasy hockey type player. He's much more of a Victor Hedman type, and he's pretty much developing like Hedman did. Larsson is clearly dealing with confidence issues. Playing with such a discombobulated team at the moment isn't helping. The good news is he's on the ice with Andy Greene who tends to be the most consistent defenseman. If the team starts playing better, it should help him a lot.

Larsson is not a flashy player. He may have a couple of years here or there with some good point totals, but it's not what he's going to be looked at for. In a few years if all goes well, he should be a very consistent, big minute player who can hopefully eat 25 mins a night in all situations.

There just needs to be patience. He played great in the AHL last year, and it's going to take time for his abilities to come out in the NHL. I hope people remain realistic when Gelinas or Merrill make the jump. They will also have growing pains.

I know but do you want to use a 4th overall pick on that? If you had to pick with a 4th overall niedermayer or daneyko, who do you pick? 2 very useful players but you know.

Also speed is a huge concern. Look at salvador now, hes slow but at least hes aggressive, pronger was aggresive and could produce eventhough he was slow. Larsson simply doesnt have a tool that will help him in the long run. Well hopefully his hockey IQ can be thst one tool so lets hope for that

Edited by SterioDesign, 14 October 2013 - 07:18 PM.

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#86 aylbert

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:46 PM

Absolute silliness.

 

You never bail on a defensive prospect like Larsson.   Give him time to develop, let him make his mistakes...  he needs time and space.


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#87 Devilsfan118

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:17 PM

Absolute silliness.

You never bail on a defensive prospect like Larsson. Give him time to develop, let him make his mistakes... he needs time and space.


This thread is an annual tradition, and probably will remain one until Larsson hits his stride in a few years.

It would be nice to see him breakout sometime soon though.
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#88 maxpower

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:04 AM

Prior 4th picks

 

2010:  Ryan Johansen

2009:  Evander Kane

2008:  Alex Pietrangelo

2007:  Thomas Hickey

2006:  Nick Backstrom

2005:  Benoit Pouliot

2004:  Andrew Ladd

2003:  Nick Zherdev

2002:  Joni Pitkanen

2001:  Stephen Weiss

2000:  Rusty Klesla

1999:  Pavel Brindl

1998:  Bryan Allen

1997:  Ruberto Luongo

 

Finally, I can stop with what I'll consider a top star player, but the next three years are pug fugly until we get to Paul Kariya in 1993.

 

There's your history of the #4 pick.   Problem is 1) you guys have no patience 2) you overvalue what a #4 pick actually is and 3) you all sat around during a pointless season having fantasies about the guy, listening to stupid talking heads who said he was Nick Lidstrom 2.0.

 

This is the problem with drafting defensemen, if you get impatient, you end up wasting your pick and if the player actually is good, someone else reaps the benefits.


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#89 nessus

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:21 AM

Did anyone really think we were getting the next Lidstrom, though? I got excited hearing that, I'll admit, but I really didn't think he'd be anywhere close to one of the best players the game has ever seen. What I'm expecting for is Larsson is that he turns out somewhere between Hedman and OEL in terms of playing style and hopefully in that realm of skill, too. Being drafted 4th overall, and not 1st, I don't think anyone was expecting some kind of defenseman you only see once per generation.

 

I think he will reach that potential eventually, but maybe much faster if coached better.


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#90 maxpower

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:31 AM

Did anyone really think we were getting the next Lidstrom, though? I got excited hearing that, I'll admit, but I really didn't think he'd be anywhere close to one of the best players the game has ever seen. What I'm expecting for is Larsson is that he turns out somewhere between Hedman and OEL in terms of playing style and hopefully in that realm of skill, too. Being drafted 4th overall, and not 1st, I don't think anyone was expecting some kind of defenseman you only see once per generation.

 

I think he will reach that potential eventually, but maybe much faster if coached better.

 

Well you have people screaming "bust" to the rooftops so I'm not sure exactly what they expected.


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#91 vadvlfan

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:36 AM

His draft pick number isn't his fault. In fact he was if I recall correctly in conversation for the #1 overall. In a weird twist of fate, NJ wins the lottery and at that time, they didn't have a PMD anywhere in sight. Perfect fit right? Unfortunately, he was thrown right in and as we have seen(for various reasons), the results just don't seem to be there, yet. I base all my bashing on what I see, and that is a timid, poor skating d-man that can make nice 60 foot pssses and a shot that needs work from the top.(although I suspect this is a team tactic that just blows)

I hope for all Devil's fans sake that he takes the next step or 3 and becones what we all hope he can be. I just don't see it happening.

I was at the draft @ Prudential Center, and when Larsson "fell" to us, (Fla took Huberdeau) there was an excitement, we all knew it was going to be larsson and thrilled about as well.  Hopefully most of us are wrong about him, and he'll settle in to be good 3-4 d pairing kinda guy. He still doesn't move his feet very well breaking out.  I think it can be fixed. The entire team is in the crapper at the moment, so we're disecting everything that might be wrong.


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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:42 AM

Prior 4th picks

 

2010:  Ryan Johansen

2009:  Evander Kane

2008:  Alex Pietrangelo

2007:  Thomas Hickey

2006:  Nick Backstrom

2005:  Benoit Pouliot

2004:  Andrew Ladd

2003:  Nick Zherdev

2002:  Joni Pitkanen

2001:  Stephen Weiss

2000:  Rusty Klesla

1999:  Pavel Brindl

1998:  Bryan Allen

1997:  Ruberto Luongo

 

Finally, I can stop with what I'll consider a top star player, but the next three years are pug fugly until we get to Paul Kariya in 1993.

 

There's your history of the #4 pick.   Problem is 1) you guys have no patience 2) you overvalue what a #4 pick actually is and 3) you all sat around during a pointless season having fantasies about the guy, listening to stupid talking heads who said he was Nick Lidstrom 2.0.

 

This is the problem with drafting defensemen, if you get impatient, you end up wasting your pick and if the player actually is good, someone else reaps the benefits.

 

I think because it's been unheard of for the Devils to have a pick so high, many Devils fans almost don't know how to handle it.  I think in the loosest sense, it's almost as though they're saying, "Well, geez, the guy was picked #4 overall, he should be ready to contribute almost immediately!"  And when he made the team right off the bat and played 65 games to boot, I think that helped to contribute to that viewpoint.  I don't think anyone anticipated that he might take a couple of steps back. 

 

He still has youth on his side, but it's scary how quickly time goes...that 18-year-old kid is suddenly going to be 21 next month.  Still very young, but if he doesn't start showing progress by the end of the year, I get the feeling a lot of Devils fans are going to start bailing on him, and throwing around the "B" word a lot.   


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#93 HellOnICE

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:55 AM

Adam has all the tools, he's 20, I think he needs a new defensive coach to work with him and teach. I wonder how Tommy Albelin, Swedish, and a very smart defenseman who didn't have all the tools but managed to carve out a good career for himself would be. He's already been the assistant here for a number of years. I think they should get him up here. I'd like to see Holik brought back to be an assistant on the offensive side, but that's just me :) Not sure he'd take it, but it'd be interesting.

 

Maybe I'm nuts, but #4 isn't working out on the D side.


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#94 NJDevs4978

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:56 AM

Kane, Pietrangelo and Backstrom are pretty good NHL players, I'd love it if Larsson was 85% of what Pietrangelo is.

 

The problem to me with Larsson is he seems to be getting worse, not better...and he can't skate backwards to save his life at age 20.  It doesn't help that seemingly every mistake he makes winds up in the back of the net.  max is right that Devil fans built him up almost unrealistically beforehand because of thinking about the draft for several months - but the first half of his rookie season he looked well on his way to being all that.  Then he hit a rookie wall, got hurt and then the in-and-out of the lineup shuffling started.  Plus having Larry leave didn't help matters since they worked well together.


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#95 HellOnICE

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:00 AM

But he's not ruined forever. I think Lou needs to make a coaching change with Stevens in order to make that work. Obviously we don't really know how Stevens is as a teacher, we are just seeing the results.


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#96 devlman

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:27 AM

Kane, Pietrangelo and Backstrom are pretty good NHL players, I'd love it if Larsson was 85% of what Pietrangelo is.

 

The problem to me with Larsson is he seems to be getting worse, not better...and he can't skate backwards to save his life at age 20.  It doesn't help that seemingly every mistake he makes winds up in the back of the net.  max is right that Devil fans built him up almost unrealistically beforehand because of thinking about the draft for several months - but the first half of his rookie season he looked well on his way to being all that.  Then he hit a rookie wall, got hurt and then the in-and-out of the lineup shuffling started.  Plus having Larry leave didn't help matters since they worked well together.

 

St. Louis fans had the same concern with Pietrangelo. Its taken him 4 solid years of development in the Blues system to really take off - par for a young, talented defenseman.


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#97 LucifersDog

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:15 AM

For what it is worth I think the Devils new to hire special assignment coaches to work with these young players because I don't feel the present coaching staff does enough, if they did we would see improvement.
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#98 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:31 AM

I know but do you want to use a 4th overall pick on that? If you had to pick with a 4th overall niedermayer or daneyko, who do you pick? 2 very useful players but you know.

Also speed is a huge concern. Look at salvador now, hes slow but at least hes aggressive, pronger was aggresive and could produce eventhough he was slow. Larsson simply doesnt have a tool that will help him in the long run. Well hopefully his hockey IQ can be thst one tool so lets hope for that

 

First off, there was no Scott Niedermayer in that draft. Nieds was a generational talent, and players like him don't come around very often. Larsson was the best player available at #4.

 

Speed can be worked on. Larsson was drafted for his on ice vision, ability to remain calm, and because it was generally felt he had a lot of growing to do. These qualities showed in Sweden, but then he moved halfway around the world, to a faster game on a smaller rink with more contact and bigger players. It's going to take time to adjust to all of that. He's played well in the AHL, and in time that should come to the NHL.

 

Point wise, if he mirrors his AHL production for a whole season in the NHL (who knows if that would be consistent numbers), he'd have about 47 points which is the most of a Devils defenseman since Rafalksi broke 50 in 2006-7. 


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#99 Daniel

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:37 AM

First off, there was no Scott Niedermayer in that draft. Nieds was a generational talent, and players like him don't come around very often. Larsson was the best player available at #4.

Speed can be worked on. Larsson was drafted for his on ice vision, ability to remain calm, and because it was generally felt he had a lot of growing to do. These qualities showed in Sweden, but then he moved halfway around the world, to a faster game on a smaller rink with more contact and bigger players. It's going to take time to adjust to all of that. He's played well in the AHL, and in time that should come to the NHL.

Point wise, if he mirrors his AHL production for a whole season in the NHL (who knows if that would be consistent numbers), he'd have about 47 points which is the most of a Devils defenseman since Rafalksi broke 50 in 2006-7.



Niedermeyer wasn't thought of as a generational talent when he was drafted. In fact, Lou should feel very fortunate that San Jose came into the league that year, otherwise, the Devils woukd have taken Pat Faloon at number 2.



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#100 Pepperkorn

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:49 AM

Everyone expected to land Landeskog.  Larsson was a let down.  He's lacking in passion and we made the best of it citing whathisface Red Wing as best case scenario.  He's not the Devils style and he's too young to show his own personal development as of yet.

 

I'm not upset because I was never thrilled with the acquisition. He's what I expected and will continue to be so given this organizations bent toward pushing for passionless hockey. 

 

Stevens doesnt' understand how to communicate passion because it just rose out of him.  He can't teach someone how to hit because it's just a feeling.  He can't be expected to learn to teach all that first crack out of the box in the NHL.  I;m guessing that was Lou's hope.  Well forget it -- it's unteachable

 

...and keeping mealy mouthed character guys in prominent team positions isn't of any great benefit either.


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