Jump to content

Photo

Larsson


  • Please log in to reply
332 replies to this topic

#121 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,515 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

do you always miss my points on purpose dude? you have to at this point. you seriously misinterpret like 90% of my posts.

 

I addressed what you said in post #110.  You implied (or seemed to imply) that with that pick, Lou should've taken someone with a different, flashier skillset on D (like a Nieds).  One that puts up numbers in the glamour categories.  You can re-read the rest of the post.  Larsson was ranked very high and seemed to be a no-brainer-type pick at #4.  You're making it sound like Lou purposely avoided taking a higher-ceiling guy to draft Larsson, when at the time Larsson WAS considered to be a very high-ceiling guy himself.  Like DD56 said, at that slot, Larsson was likely considered to be the best player available...and probably was on a lot of draft boards.   


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#122 devilsrule33

devilsrule33

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,126 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:35 PM

I addressed what you said in post #110.  You implied (or seemed to imply) that with that pick, Lou should've taken someone with a different, flashier skillset on D (like a Nieds).  One that puts up numbers in the glamour categories.  You can re-read the rest of the post.  Larsson was ranked very high and seemed to be a no-brainer-type pick at #4.  You're making it sound like Lou purposely avoided taking a higher-ceiling guy to draft Larsson, when at the time Larsson WAS considered to be a very high-ceiling guy himself.  Like DD56 said, at that slot, Larsson was likely considered to be the best player available...and probably was on a lot of draft boards.   

 

I think everyone here should be happy winning the lottery didn't mean getting the 1st overall pick, because I believe that the entire scouting staff was ready to take Larsson if they had the 1st pick. Right now you can't make a great case for anyone the Devils should have picked instead of Larsson at the 4-spot. It's very early (just like it is too early to judge Larsson), but you could make the case that everyone from 5-20 should be worried about their top pick. That's how ridiculous it is to give up on Larsson at this point.


Edited by devilsrule33, 15 October 2013 - 05:38 PM.

  • 0

"The Stanley Cup has fallen from the Stars. The new millennium has its first Stanley Cup Champion, and it's the New Jersey Devils." Mike Miller calling the Devils winning the Stanley Cup.

"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#123 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,775 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:03 PM

I think everyone here should be happy winning the lottery didn't mean getting the 1st overall pick, because I believe that the entire scouting staff was ready to take Larsson if they had the 1st pick. Right now you can't even make a case for anyone the Devils should have picked instead of Larsson at the 4-spot. It's very early (just like it is too early to judge Larsson), but you could make the case that everyone from 5-20 should be worried about their top pick. That's how ridiculous it is to give up on Larsson at this point.

 

I think you can make a case for Brodin and Dougie Hamilton.  I think it's very likely that both of these guys turn out better than Larsson.  Not really sold on anyone else.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#124 LucifersDog

LucifersDog

    Broken Record

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,786 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

How many early picks succeed vs failure ? It's a gamble.


  • 0

#125 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,428 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:53 PM

Kane, Pietrangelo and Backstrom are pretty good NHL players, I'd love it if Larsson was 85% of what Pietrangelo is.

 

The problem to me with Larsson is he seems to be getting worse, not better...and he can't skate backwards to save his life at age 20.  It doesn't help that seemingly every mistake he makes winds up in the back of the net.  max is right that Devil fans built him up almost unrealistically beforehand because of thinking about the draft for several months - but the first half of his rookie season he looked well on his way to being all that.  Then he hit a rookie wall, got hurt and then the in-and-out of the lineup shuffling started.  Plus having Larry leave didn't help matters since they worked well together.

 

Pietrangelo is probably the best non "star" on that list.    But he's also older at this point.    He's a very, very good player but he's not a "generational" talent or anything like that.


  • 0

#126 dmann422

dmann422

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,530 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:11 PM

Go back and read that draft thread. It exploded when Larsson fell to us. To claim now that you knew or Lou should have known to pick anyone else is utter silliness and an outright lie.

Even comparing Larsson to Brodin and Hamilton is unfair as both of them are playing with Norris candidates as partners (that is, when Hamilton isn't scratched)

Larsson was and still is the right pick. He has plenty of time left to prove it.
  • 0

#127 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,246 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:33 PM

I don't fault Lou for making the pick at 4. In 2011 we had Parise, Kovalchuk, Clarkson, a younger Marty and a younger Moose. The D while okay had been on a downward slide since 2008. Lou picked what he thought we needed and Larsson was ranked very highly.


  • 0

frabz-Al-Bundy-Sees-Your-New-Shoes-Al-Bu
 


#128 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,808 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:16 PM

Go back and read that draft thread. It exploded when Larsson fell to us. To claim now that you knew or Lou should have known to pick anyone else is utter silliness and an outright lie.

Even comparing Larsson to Brodin and Hamilton is unfair as both of them are playing with Norris candidates as partners (that is, when Hamilton isn't scratched)

Larsson was and still is the right pick. He has plenty of time left to prove it.

 

As I said, I do not fault Lou for the pick.  The same way I do not fault Ottawa for selecting Daigle. 

 

It's just disappointing that Larsson does not appear that he'll be as good as he was supposed to be. 


  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#129 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,775 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:38 PM

Go back and read that draft thread. It exploded when Larsson fell to us. To claim now that you knew or Lou should have known to pick anyone else is utter silliness and an outright lie.

Even comparing Larsson to Brodin and Hamilton is unfair as both of them are playing with Norris candidates as partners (that is, when Hamilton isn't scratched)

Larsson was and still is the right pick. He has plenty of time left to prove it.

 

I never said he wasn't the right pick, I'm just saying those are two guys who look like they will definitely be better than Larsson.  The rest of the draft it's up for debate, and it's also up for debate whether Huberdeau will be better.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#130 Mike Brown

Mike Brown

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,714 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:08 PM

Prior 4th picks

 

2010:  Ryan Johansen

2009:  Evander Kane

2008:  Alex Pietrangelo

2007:  Thomas Hickey

2006:  Nick Backstrom

2005:  Benoit Pouliot

2004:  Andrew Ladd

2003:  Nick Zherdev

2002:  Joni Pitkanen

2001:  Stephen Weiss

2000:  Rusty Klesla

1999:  Pavel Brindl

1998:  Bryan Allen

1997:  Ruberto Luongo

 

Finally, I can stop with what I'll consider a top star player, but the next three years are pug fugly until we get to Paul Kariya in 1993.

 

There's your history of the #4 pick.   Problem is 1) you guys have no patience 2) you overvalue what a #4 pick actually is and 3) you all sat around during a pointless season having fantasies about the guy, listening to stupid talking heads who said he was Nick Lidstrom 2.0.

 

This is the problem with drafting defensemen, if you get impatient, you end up wasting your pick and if the player actually is good, someone else reaps the benefits.

 

2010:  Ryan Johansen - still very young

2009:  Evander Kane - already very good

2008:  Alex Pietrangelo - elite d-man

2007:  Thomas Hickey - bust

2006:  Nick Backstrom - great center

2005:  Benoit Pouliot - decent player

2004:  Andrew Ladd - good player

2003:  Nick Zherdev - decent player

2002:  Joni Pitkanen - good player, but injury proned

2001:  Stephen Weiss - very good player

2000:  Rusty Klesla - decent player

1999:  Pavel Brindl - bust

1998:  Bryan Allen - decent player

1997:  Ruberto Luongo - HOF goalie

 

Basically, only 2 on that list were busts imo.  The others at least became solid players one way or another.


  • 0

temp_zps55e0012a.png

NEW JERSEY DEVILS: 3 TIME STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!

NEW YORK YANKEES: 27 TIME WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: 5 TIME SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS!


#131 2ELIAS6

2ELIAS6

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,584 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:43 AM

i dont think larsson is a bust.. especially being so young. kind of silly to be going on about this... its not like hes the only one making mistakes the entire D fvcking blows lately.
  • 0
believe-devs.jpg1dun.jpg

*authentic Martin Brodeur autographed goalie stick with COA for sale pm me if interested*

#132 squishyx

squishyx

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,289 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:46 AM

He's 20.


  • 0

#133 2ELIAS6

2ELIAS6

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,584 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:48 AM

He's 20.

yes i think we've established that.
  • 0
believe-devs.jpg1dun.jpg

*authentic Martin Brodeur autographed goalie stick with COA for sale pm me if interested*

#134 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,808 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:17 AM

He's 20.

 

If there were some attribute(s) to his game that showed more upside, I wouldn't be as concerned. But  I don't see them, and nobody has pointed anything out, other than "outlet passes", which is vague and immeasurable enough that it's an attribute that people see if they want to see it. 

 

Like I said, "bust" was too strong a word on my part.  Disappointment is more appropriate.


  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#135 Pepperkorn

Pepperkorn

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,432 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:18 AM

I think everyone here should be happy winning the lottery didn't mean getting the 1st overall pick, because I believe that the entire scouting staff was ready to take Larsson if they had the 1st pick. Right now you can't make a great case for anyone the Devils should have picked instead of Larsson at the 4-spot. It's very early (just like it is too early to judge Larsson), but you could make the case that everyone from 5-20 should be worried about their top pick. That's how ridiculous it is to give up on Larsson at this point.

Totally agree.    But I do remember how everyone made the best of it all by taking a good look and Landeskog.  What started out as bucking the Devils up actually convinced me he was by far and away the Devils player - I think it's also what convinced the Avs to take him first.  Larsson was a clean calm Avs kind of guy Ladeskog was tougher and just more Devils by nature.

 

I think Larsson will come along though.  I dont know how to work with that type but that doesn't make it bad at all. 


  • 0

I'm here for the party


#136 Pepperkorn

Pepperkorn

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,432 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:21 AM

If there were some attribute(s) to his game that showed more upside, I wouldn't be as concerned. But  I don't see them, and nobody has pointed anything out, other than "outlet passes", which is vague and immeasurable enough that it's an attribute that people see if they want to see it. 

 

Like I said, "bust" was too strong a word on my part.  Disappointment is more appropriate.

 

I'm just curious... how does one find outlet passes vague and immeasurable?  Seriously, not to wax all Triumph superior but I am dumbfounded by that comment. :huh: I feel like an a$$hole seriously sitting here thinking what's not to see - what could be more obvious?  It's not even like it's a group skill even, reliant on any other player.


  • 0

I'm here for the party


#137 Chimaira_Devil_#9

Chimaira_Devil_#9

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,130 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:29 AM

 

1998: Bryan Allen - decent player

1997: Ruberto Luongo - HOF goalie

 

Really?!?!?!

 

Guy hasnt even won a Vezina.

 

You have to be an exceptionally good Golatender with the hardwear to show for it to get into the HOF.


  • 0

OFFICIAL KEEPER OF:Dainius Zubrus......Andy Greene.......Vladimir Zharkov and Alexander Vasyunov

Posted Image

Winner of the 07/08 ,08/09 & 10/11 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster


#138 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,808 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:34 AM

I'm just curious... how does one find outlet passes vague and immeasurable?  Seriously, not to wax all Triumph superior but I am dumbfounded by that comment. :huh: I feel like an a$$hole seriously sitting here thinking what's not to see - what could be more obvious?  It's not even like it's a group skill even, reliant on any other player.

 

It's vague because even the most borderline of NHL defensemen can make outlet passes often enough.  If it's a skill you're looking for to tell yourself that a defenseman is good, you'll be able to conclude that any defenseman you want is good.  I'm sure I could find just as many nice outlet passes from Peter Harold than you can from Larsson. 

 

Otherwise, he isn't particularly fast, he's not physical, he doesn't have a shot that's anything special, he's not the smoothest skater.  What's left?


  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#139 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,428 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:36 AM

 

2010:  Ryan Johansen - still very young

2009:  Evander Kane - already very good

2008:  Alex Pietrangelo - elite d-man

2007:  Thomas Hickey - bust

2006:  Nick Backstrom - great center

2005:  Benoit Pouliot - decent player

2004:  Andrew Ladd - good player

2003:  Nick Zherdev - decent player

2002:  Joni Pitkanen - good player, but injury proned

2001:  Stephen Weiss - very good player

2000:  Rusty Klesla - decent player

1999:  Pavel Brindl - bust

1998:  Bryan Allen - decent player

1997:  Ruberto Luongo - HOF goalie

 

Basically, only 2 on that list were busts imo.  The others at least became solid players one way or another.

 

 

It's not that they're busts, it's that the list is hardly spinning off generational players right and left.   And Benoit Pouliot is junk,  Zherdev was a flake who had no longevity in the league, Ladd is on his 3rd organization and has had one big year... in a shortened season, Bryan Allen is a boring prototypical Devils defenseman, Weiss is (was) good but is maddingly overrated, etc.  It goes on like that.   The biggest hits at that position over 17-18 years were Luongo and Kariya.   Pietrangelo has a chance to be a star player and Backstrom is a great assist guy, who had a Scott Gomez 05-06 goal scoring year once.

 

Superstars are not falling out of the sky at that spot.   So a 20 year old Larsson has more than enough time and chance to hit the level of his slot.


  • 0

#140 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,496 posts

Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:45 AM

Really?!?!?!

 

Guy hasnt even won a Vezina.

 

You have to be an exceptionally good Golatender with the hardwear to show for it to get into the HOF.

 

I hope he was being sarcastic lol...


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users