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2013-2014 Lineup/Roster Thread


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#1241 SterioDesign

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:18 PM

my point now is... can we REALLY say one goalie is giving us a better chance to win than the other, and considering we are not out yet but LETS SAY we'd be out for sure.

 

Well the answer to me is still Cory, the guy is our future (and well not even sure he will be so far) seems to me that you want to look at the future and work on that in this situation. Whats the point of giving more starts to a guy on his last leg? We have a guy to make happy and to make sure he gains confidence and that he become our guy. 

 

Same logic with Larsson, whats the point of risking ruining him instead of helping him and play old vets that will be gone very soon and that are not bringing much more now? so fvcking frustrating


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#1242 Triumph

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:41 PM

my point now is... can we REALLY say one goalie is giving us a better chance to win than the other, and considering we are not out yet but LETS SAY we'd be out for sure.

 

Well the answer to me is still Cory, the guy is our future (and well not even sure he will be so far) seems to me that you want to look at the future and work on that in this situation. Whats the point of giving more starts to a guy on his last leg? We have a guy to make happy and to make sure he gains confidence and that he become our guy. 

 

Same logic with Larsson, whats the point of risking ruining him instead of helping him and play old vets that will be gone very soon and that are not bringing much more now? so fvcking frustrating

 

Can you give me one example of a player who was ruined by leaving him in the minors?


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#1243 sundstrom

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:11 PM

Can you give me one example of a player who was ruined by leaving him in the minors?

 

of course he can't because it's all speculation. and I'm not saying that to better your point. i'm saying that to better his (first time for everything maybe). if you're stuck in the minors, it almost always means that someone doesn't value you as much as another player. the issue is that it can be wrong. if the nhl decision makers (read GMs) say you're not good enough, then whether you are or not is irrelevant.

 

larsson CLEARLY showed he could not only play, but had enough tools and flashes that it would be more likely than not a better than average NHLer. lets say, for arguments sake, that lou brings back the same defensemen next year which absolutely has a non-zero chance of happening. hell, he essentially did it this year other than tallinder. larsson's gotta battle it out again and being just solid won't be enough because you could argue he's exactly the same as merrill and the north american kid almost always wins that matchup.

 

meanwhile hedman is on year 5 with a similar pedigree and is one of the better defensemen in the league.


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#1244 SterioDesign

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:25 PM

Can you give me one example of a player who was ruined by leaving him in the minors?

 

gotta admit, ruined may have been a bad choice of word but he's CERTAINLY growing frustrated with this unfair situation and this could be bad on many levels.


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#1245 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:44 PM

gotta admit, ruined may have been a bad choice of word but he's CERTAINLY growing frustrated with this unfair situation and this could be bad on many levels.

 

This is only true if you go by a belief that an organization's job is to make everyone happy. How is keeping a 21 year old in the minors getting big minutes unfair? It's only unfair if you think that player feels entitled to play in the NHL as a 21 year old. I think these players are more realistic than that. He knows to keep working and that when he makes it to the NHL, he'll be a mainstay.


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#1246 NJDevs4978

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:52 PM

Except that Larsson played his best hockey since early in his rookie season just before he got hurt.  It's horse**** that he hasn't been back since.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 17 March 2014 - 03:58 PM.

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#1247 SterioDesign

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:59 PM

This is only true if you go by a belief that an organization's job is to make everyone happy. How is keeping a 21 year old in the minors getting big minutes unfair? It's only unfair if you think that player feels entitled to play in the NHL as a 21 year old. I think these players are more realistic than that. He knows to keep working and that when he makes it to the NHL, he'll be a mainstay.

 

well i based my belief on Larsson himself saying he was frustrated lol


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#1248 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:13 PM

well i based my belief on Larsson himself saying he was frustrated lol

 

Then he can keep working and be ready when he gets his next shot. Players get drafted, and while a team has a responsibility to give them the tools to help develop them into better players, the player also has a responsibility to make the best of whatever situation he is in. Being frustrated isn't justification for an NHL job. He was playing well, got hurt, and Merril jumped in. He will get another opportunity, and when he does it's his job to make the most of it. Meanwhile, there's nothing wrong with him getting into every-game situations in the AHL instead of being in and out of the NHL lineup.


Edited by Devil Dan 56, 17 March 2014 - 04:14 PM.

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#1249 SterioDesign

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:33 PM

Then he can keep working and be ready when he gets his next shot. Players get drafted, and while a team has a responsibility to give them the tools to help develop them into better players, the player also has a responsibility to make the best of whatever situation he is in. Being frustrated isn't justification for an NHL job. He was playing well, got hurt, and Merril jumped in. He will get another opportunity, and when he does it's his job to make the most of it. Meanwhile, there's nothing wrong with him getting into every-game situations in the AHL instead of being in and out of the NHL lineup.

 

it's not really about that, it's about the mishandling of the roster again. It's one thing to take it on yourself and admit you're where you are cause you did a bad job. It's another thing to be stuck in the minors and watch Salvador/A-Train play every single night and getting away with murder. 


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#1250 Triumph

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:31 PM

of course he can't because it's all speculation. and I'm not saying that to better your point. i'm saying that to better his (first time for everything maybe). if you're stuck in the minors, it almost always means that someone doesn't value you as much as another player. the issue is that it can be wrong. if the nhl decision makers (read GMs) say you're not good enough, then whether you are or not is irrelevant.

 

larsson CLEARLY showed he could not only play, but had enough tools and flashes that it would be more likely than not a better than average NHLer. lets say, for arguments sake, that lou brings back the same defensemen next year which absolutely has a non-zero chance of happening. hell, he essentially did it this year other than tallinder. larsson's gotta battle it out again and being just solid won't be enough because you could argue he's exactly the same as merrill and the north american kid almost always wins that matchup.

 

meanwhile hedman is on year 5 with a similar pedigree and is one of the better defensemen in the league.

 

Larsson's in next year because he is waiver eligible - so is Gelinas.  I think Merrill will make the team too.  Still, this is the last chance the Devils have to use him in the minor leagues.  I think it's impossible that the same D return next year and will bet you on that gladly.

 

http://www.behindthe...33 34 45 46 63#

 

http://www.behindthe...33 34 45 46 63#

 

Now you have to zone start adjust these numbers and adjust for their competition (NJ starts a lot more in the O zone than Tampa over these seasons), but you can see that Hedman is clearly better.


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#1251 SMantzas

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:34 PM

Larsson's in next year because he is waiver eligible - so is Gelinas.  I think Merrill will make the team too.  Still, this is the last chance the Devils have to use him in the minor leagues.  I think it's impossible that the same D return next year and will bet you on that gladly.

 

http://www.behindthe...33 34 45 46 63#

 

http://www.behindthe...33 34 45 46 63#

 

Now you have to zone start adjust these numbers and adjust for their competition (NJ starts a lot more in the O zone than Tampa over these seasons), but you can see that Hedman is clearly better.

Sort of off topic, but why is no one talking about Hedman as a Norris candidate? I think he's right there with dmen who are around the same age (Karlsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo)


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#1252 sundstrom

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:29 PM

Larsson's in next year because he is waiver eligible - so is Gelinas.  I think Merrill will make the team too.  Still, this is the last chance the Devils have to use him in the minor leagues.  I think it's impossible that the same D return next year and will bet you on that gladly.

 

http://www.behindthe...33 34 45 46 63#

 

http://www.behindthe...33 34 45 46 63#

 

Now you have to zone start adjust these numbers and adjust for their competition (NJ starts a lot more in the O zone than Tampa over these seasons), but you can see that Hedman is clearly better.

 

re: pedigree - they came into the league with similar pedigrees. hedman's team was pretty bad and he was given the chance to fail and get better. larsson had a bit of that in year one when they tried to give him everything. they dialed back and then he got subban'd as was out. last year he was not handled right - everyone admitted that. and then this year. he was improving a lot, got hurt, and then wally pipp'd by merrill. merrill wasn't so head and shoulders above him that larsson shouldn't have gotten put back and continued his upward track.


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#1253 Triumph

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:32 PM

re: pedigree - they came into the league with similar pedigrees. hedman's team was pretty bad and he was given the chance to fail and get better. larsson had a bit of that in year one when they tried to give him everything. they dialed back and then he got subban'd as was out. last year he was not handled right - everyone admitted that. and then this year. he was improving a lot, got hurt, and then wally pipp'd by merrill. merrill wasn't so head and shoulders above him that larsson shouldn't have gotten put back and continued his upward track.

 

Just because he wasn't handled right doesn't mean you get to write off a year where he's at best a break even D - do you honestly think if he looked like Hedman in year 2 that they wouldn't've cleared someone out for him?  This year has gone better but part of it is advantageous zone starts - he was getting 60% of his starts in the offensive zone as opposed to 50% last year.  

 

Larsson's going to be a good player, but he's not going to be Hedman.


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#1254 sundstrom

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:53 PM

Just because he wasn't handled right doesn't mean you get to write off a year where he's at best a break even D - do you honestly think if he looked like Hedman in year 2 that they wouldn't've cleared someone out for him?  This year has gone better but part of it is advantageous zone starts - he was getting 60% of his starts in the offensive zone as opposed to 50% last year.  

 

Larsson's going to be a good player, but he's not going to be Hedman.

 

this is all certainly fair - i can't honestly figure out what the devils brain trust is thinking a lot of the times.

 

i don't think he's going to be hedman because i don't think he'll provide the offense that hedman does. but i think he'll be better than fayne is now (which is a better than average nhl defenseman). i think he will be an ES monster on defense for the devils


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“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#1255 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:25 PM

it's not really about that, it's about the mishandling of the roster again. It's one thing to take it on yourself and admit you're where you are cause you did a bad job. It's another thing to be stuck in the minors and watch Salvador/A-Train play every single night and getting away with murder. 

 

Salvador and Volchenkov aren't keeping Larsson out of the lineup. They play a different role than he does. It's more Fayne and Merrill, and there's really no reason not to play either of them at the moment. Larsson in the minors isn't the ideal situation, but it's also really not that big of a deal. He's playing more than he would up in Jersey. It'll help him when he's on the team full time next season. 


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#1256 Marshall

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:59 AM

Sort of off topic, but why is no one talking about Hedman as a Norris candidate? I think he's right there with dmen who are around the same age (Karlsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo)

 

For one, he plays in Tampa. Second, I think he lacks that stand-out quality of Karlsson or Subban. He's very well rounded in that aspect. Third, I think many people perceive him to be a bust because of his relative struggles in his first couple of years and not hearing much about him since draft. 

 

I believe Tampa gets about 54% of the goals when he's on the ice and something like 46% when he's not...so he's pretty darn important.


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#1257 Z-Man

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:31 AM

So Lou burns one of his four call-ups for Sestito.  What a complete waste.  With Carter injured, that still gives us 12 healthy forwards.  Not to mention you can always dress 7 defenseman and use Gelinas strictly on the power play.


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#1258 Devilsfan118

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

So Lou burns one of his four call-ups for Sestito.  What a complete waste.  With Carter injured, that still gives us 12 healthy forwards.  Not to mention you can always dress 7 defenseman and use Gelinas strictly on the power play.

 

I just don't get it.  Just..why Lou?


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#1259 Daniel

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

So Lou burns one of his four call-ups for Sestito.  What a complete waste.  With Carter injured, that still gives us 12 healthy forwards.  Not to mention you can always dress 7 defenseman and use Gelinas strictly on the power play.

 

I imagine this also means that the team has given up on Josefson.  Not just DeBoear, but also Lou.  Stinks when those first-round picks don't work out. 


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#1260 JRZYRIPPER

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:05 AM

Gelinas in and a-train out vs Boston.
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