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#1321 Neb00rs

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:48 PM

The Marty Unfiltered Tour continues: “I don’t think Nieder got booed. And he’s the one that set us back big-time,” Brodeur said of Niedermayer’s decision to sign with Anaheim as a free agent in 2005. So, is Brodeur prepared to hear the boos if it does happen?

“Yeah. It would stink, but what are you going to do?” he said. “I’m here and I get booed sometimes.” http://www.nj.com/de...it_happens.html

 

:e-drama:  Oh man, anyone could be next...


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#1322 Devilsfan118

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:17 PM

Why is Harrold playing tonight? Who's sitting?

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#1323 devilsrule33

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:34 PM

Very interesting to see who Deboer goes with next game. Deboer was very complementary of the goaltending the Devils have gotten the last few games. For the most part all year, Deboer has kept the winning goalie in net regardless of who actually played better. Well you have Schneider with two straight wins and Brodeur with two straight losses. If you follow the pattern, it should be Cory, but Brodeur was really solid against the Rangers. He finally got a Schneider-esque loss for the first time in a long while, so I'm really not sure who Deboer goes with.


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#1324 NJDevs4978

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:45 PM

Three straight losses for Marty actually lol...two of which he played well in.  But still that didn't get Cory any more starts earlier in the year when he wasn't getting goals so let's see if they stay consistent now that it's Marty not getting goals.  From a psyche standpoint you'd also like to see Cory get in a groove (he hasn't gotten two straight starts since the break) now that he finally had a good, spotless game post-break.


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#1325 Neb00rs

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:16 PM

Very interesting to see who Deboer goes with next game. Deboer was very complementary of the goaltending the Devils have gotten the last few games. For the most part all year, Deboer has kept the winning goalie in net regardless of who actually played better. Well you have Schneider with two straight wins and Brodeur with two straight losses. If you follow the pattern, it should be Cory, but Brodeur was really solid against the Rangers. He finally got a Schneider-esque loss for the first time in a long while, so I'm really not sure who Deboer goes with.

 

I have a feeling he is going to go with Marty. After both goalies had solid games I can't see him not alternating.


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#1326 Triumph

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:20 PM

I have a feeling he is going to go with Marty. After both goalies had solid games I can't see him not alternating.

 

I agree - just like after Schneider stole a game in LA, he alternated which ass cheek he would favor on the bench while Brodeur got 3 straight.


Edited by Triumph, 23 March 2014 - 11:20 PM.

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#1327 '7'

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:26 PM

When has he blamed the defense and it wasn't actually warranted?

 

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#1328 devilsrule33

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:37 PM

I agree - just like after Schneider stole a game in LA, he alternated which ass cheek he would favor on the bench while Brodeur got 3 straight.

 

This is why people that talk about wins and losses being the reason Brodeur got more games don't understand why some people are still furious with the goalie situation. There have clearly been different rules for both goalies all season.

 

Schneider plays the best game a goalie has played all year to that point and still to this date against the Kings. The Devils escape with a win in a game they had no business winning. Two nights later Brodeur gets a game, and they lose. He gets the next game, and they lose. He gets the game after and they lose. Schneider finally gets another game 8 days later after the LA gem, and wins. He responds by shutting out the Sabres the next game. Of course Brodeur gets his Montreal home game after that.

 

It was somewhere during that time that Schneider showed his frustration, and he had every right to be. Deboer said he would be disappointed if he wasn't upset, but it made no sense that Cory wasn't given a game sooner.

 

If Brodeur does get the next game, well then this is why Tri says "You're also fine with missing the playoffs, as apparently the entire Devils organization is" or as Sundstrom says, "different strokes for different folks". Because it will be very clear that this season was about making sure Brodeur was never going to be the backup and getting him as many games as possible regardless of who is better.


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#1329 Neb00rs

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 10:34 AM

This is why people that talk about wins and losses being the reason Brodeur got more games don't understand why some people are still furious with the goalie situation. There have clearly been different rules for both goalies all season.

 

I may be wrong but I don't think anyone talks solely about wins and losses as to why Marty played a lot. It was just about going with the hot hand. The Devils were struggling, whoever the team happened to win with was going to get the next game. Cory has still played more games btw. When Cory wasn't winning he didn't play as much because Marty was playing well. Most people believe Cory should play more though, as do I.

 

As far as the team making it a priority to play Brodeur as many games as possible I don't see how that's true at all. It's nonsense imo. Marty didn't play for what? Six games after Yankee Stadium. When Cory wasn't getting the job done we switched over.

 

The complaining over the Marty situation has just gone out of control. Marty playing 40 games has nothing to do with the Devils not making the playoffs. Who knows what would have happened had he started the games that Marty lost (or won even). This team has only allowed 187 goals, that's 11th in the NHL and perfectly sufficient to make the playoffs. But the team has only scored 175 goals. If they had scored 195 then we'd probably be in the playoffs right now.


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#1330 DH26

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:01 AM

I may be wrong but I don't think anyone talks solely about wins and losses as to why Marty played a lot. It was just about going with the hot hand. The Devils were struggling, whoever the team happened to win with was going to get the next game. Cory has still played more games btw. When Cory wasn't winning he didn't play as much because Marty was playing well. Most people believe Cory should play more though, as do I.

 

As far as the team making it a priority to play Brodeur as many games as possible I don't see how that's true at all. It's nonsense imo. Marty didn't play for what? Six games after Yankee Stadium. When Cory wasn't getting the job done we switched over.

 

The complaining over the Marty situation has just gone out of control. Marty playing 40 games has nothing to do with the Devils not making the playoffs. Who knows what would have happened had he started the games that Marty lost (or won even). This team has only allowed 187 goals, that's 11th in the NHL and perfectly sufficient to make the playoffs. But the team has only scored 175 goals. If they had scored 195 then we'd probably be in the playoffs right now.

 

Playing one of the best goalies for 60 games instead of 40 would make no difference to you? It's all about giving you a better chance to win and when you can play CS instead of unarguably one of the bottom 5 worst goalies in the league is a huge difference. We probably have as big a difference between good and bad goalie as anyone in the league


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#1331 Neb00rs

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:07 AM

Playing one of the best goalies for 60 games instead of 40 would make no difference to you? It's all about giving you a better chance to win and when you can play CS instead of unarguably one of the bottom 5 worst goalies in the league is a huge difference. We probably have as big a difference between good and bad goalie as anyone in the league

 

I don't know what difference it would have made. All I know is that playing the better goalie (Schneider) hasn't guaranteed us winning games this season anymore than playing Marty.


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#1332 devilsrule33

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

I may be wrong but I don't think anyone talks solely about wins and losses as to why Marty played a lot. It was just about going with the hot hand. The Devils were struggling, whoever the team happened to win with was going to get the next game. Cory has still played more games btw. When Cory wasn't winning he didn't play as much because Marty was playing well. Most people believe Cory should play more though, as do I.

 

As far as the team making it a priority to play Brodeur as many games as possible I don't see how that's true at all. It's nonsense imo. Marty didn't play for what? Six games after Yankee Stadium. When Cory wasn't getting the job done we switched over.

 

The complaining over the Marty situation has just gone out of control. Marty playing 40 games has nothing to do with the Devils not making the playoffs. Who knows what would have happened had he started the games that Marty lost (or won even). This team has only allowed 187 goals, that's 11th in the NHL and perfectly sufficient to make the playoffs. But the team has only scored 175 goals. If they had scored 195 then we'd probably be in the playoffs right now.

 

The decision was very easy to go with Cory for an extended stretch after Brodeur's game aaginst the Rangers. For one, it was almost a bit embarrassing for Deboer. He went all sentimental and gave Marty a shot coming off of Schneider winning two straight games and playing exceptional in both (56 saves on 58 shots), and that was after a (37/38) loss to Colorado. Brodeur had been coming off a loss in a very poor game against the Coyotes. But just like the example that you quoted of me in your post, we had to switch the script, and give Brodeur a start because it is Brodeur. He got owned, so the obvious choice was to continue to ride Schneider.

 

All year, there have been different rules for Brodeur and Cory. Simple as that. No one is saying for sure if the Devils would be a playoff team if Cory got 60 games and Brodeur got 22, but there is a very good chance (almost guaranteed) they would be a lot better off.


Edited by devilsrule33, 24 March 2014 - 11:13 AM.

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#1333 sundstrom

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

I don't know what difference it would have made. All I know is that playing the better goalie (Schneider) hasn't guaranteed us winning games this season anymore than playing Marty.

 

ask yourself this - how many games has cory been the reason for the loss - i mean really the reason? you know - the devils score 3+ goals and cory lets in some week ones and doesn't play well? I can think of the recent Florida game. That's it.

 

off the top of my head, i have the islanders game early in the season, the edmonton game on the road, and the columbus game on the road where brodeur was the sole reason the devils did not come away with two points - and that's just off the top of my head.

 

this team was on the razor's edge of making the playoffs to begin with - to do it, they couldn't sabotage themselves and lots had to go right. They have the best PK in the league. They have a top five PP (unfortunately they don't get enough chances to go on it). They have CS who is a top 5 goaltender in the league. so what went wrong? shootouts (i'll say they gave up 4 extra points because of them) and marty (gave away 8-10 points). shootouts - can't do anything about it. perhaps i'll fault pdb very very little because he never let zidlicky go even though he proved in practice to be good at it but whatever. but marty played in games he should not have played in. he should have gotten 30 games max this year and they should have been against lesser teams.


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#1334 Triumph

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:27 AM

Montreal back in December where Schneider let in that weak goal late - Devils lost in OT there.  That's another one.


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#1335 Neb00rs

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:42 PM

If you look at the year so far it's gone like this:

 

October:

 

Cory started 6 games. He went 1-3-2 with a .915 save pct.

Marty started 6 games. He went 2-2-2 with an .879 save pct.

 

Cory probably should have taken over at this point but towards the end of the month he lost 5 straight games, breaking well under .900 for that stretch. He had the opportunity but things didn't click.

 

Nov.

 

Cory started 6 games. He went 3-2-1 with a .941 save pct. 

Marty started 9 games and went 5-4-0 with a .932 save pct

 

 

Both are in the same boat but Marty had a stretch of 5 straight wins with a .952 save pct. and 2 straight shutouts. He was the hotter hand.

 

Dec.

 

Cory started 6 games and went 1-3-2 with an .892 save pct.

Marty started 8 games and went 5-2-1 with a .902 save pct.

 

At this point Cory hasn't won the job outright at all. Not only that but Marty has another stretch of 9 points earned out of 10 with probably like a .940

Meanwhile Cory has a stretch a 5 straight losses (2 in OT) and in 4 of those games he is under .875 (the other one he is .900)

 

NO reason to give him the sole starting job at this point

 

Jan.

 

Marty is horrible in January. I mean BAD. He starts 5 games and posts a 1-3-1 record with an .862 save pct.

So right so we lean on Cory who starts 10 games and posts a 5-2-3 record with a .942 save pct

 

So this month Cory has clearly been better than Marty and he gets twice the starts.

 

Feb. 

 

Again Marty has been terrible and he plays NO games.

Cory goes 2-1-1 with a .932 save pct.

 

Seems fair to me. Deboer is happy to name Cory the full starter but then Cory completely screws up...

 

Mar. 

 

Cory goes 2-3-0 with an .836 save pct. At one point he doesn't cross .895 for 5 straight games (with a 3 game stretch in their of .803).

Marty goes 4-3-0 with a .913 save pct.

 

Hell, Marty probably should get the net at this point. Nonetheless the season has been totally fair. In your guys' fervent hate of Marty you can't see that. When Marty was bad he didn't play, when he was good he alternated with Cory. When Cory was abysmal he got a few more starts.

 

Saying something like "How many losses can you name that were actually Cory's fault" is a ridiculous statement that displays a a reach to find anything to make Cory look out to be the one who has been wronged. Not only has Cory deservedly lost the position of sole starter fairly but he has still started more games than Marty. Cory was just losing games at one point and when Marty played we one, if you are DeBoer you have to make a move there.

 

Again, despite all the straw man, I don't think Marty is better than Cory but am not opposed to him starting half the games at this point after everything has gone the way it has.

 

By the way, in losses this year, Cory has an .894 save percentage. Clearly he is partially responsible just as Marty is for his losses.


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#1336 Devils731

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:44 PM

Not to give you work, but what are Marty and Corey's save percentage in wins and losses? Just want to put the last Corey number in context, since I think that number may actually be decent when we are only looking at losses.

Edited by Devils731, 24 March 2014 - 12:45 PM.

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#1337 Neb00rs

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:56 PM

.949 for Cory

.894

 

.930 for Marty

.875 losses

 

I was making the point that Cory's is higher in losses though but still not high enough to have him escape blame.


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#1338 Triumph

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:12 PM

.949 for Cory

.894

 

.930 for Marty

.875 losses

 

I was making the point that Cory's is higher in losses though but still not high enough to have him escape blame.

 

That's only because in his last 3 losses his SV% has been very low.  Before that, Schneider's SV% in losses was equal to Brodeur's SV% in all games.  Which just about says it all right there.

 

The point is, these two never should've been on an equal footing.  Brodeur's been bad for 3 years.  Schneider's been great.  Brodeur has been given all the leash in the world and while he's had some good starts lately we know that's a mirage because we have seen the last 3 years - he's not a good goalie, and Schneider is, period, end of story.


Edited by Triumph, 24 March 2014 - 01:12 PM.

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#1339 Neb00rs

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:37 PM

That's only because in his last 3 losses his SV% has been very low.  Before that, Schneider's SV% in losses was equal to Brodeur's SV% in all games.  Which just about says it all right there.

 

The point is, these two never should've been on an equal footing.  Brodeur's been bad for 3 years.  Schneider's been great.  Brodeur has been given all the leash in the world and while he's had some good starts lately we know that's a mirage because we have seen the last 3 years - he's not a good goalie, and Schneider is, period, end of story.

 

The point, is that as I've laid out, the alternating between the goalies has been justified. The rules never favored Marty or gave special treatment to him. Even if you say he's been given "all the leash in the world" the numbers throughout the year do not point to that as seen above. Cory has not been 'great' in any regard aside from a few periods throughout the year. DeBoer clearly realizes this and has chosen his starting goalie accordingly.  Saying that "Brodeur is bad and Cory is good" proves nothing and really isn't a true simplification. Especially lately.

 

If Marty signs a deal with the Devils this summer and Cory doesn't get one, then I'll begin to get nervous. Then again, if Cory isn't consistent for a good stretch to the end of the season, I don't know that I want to rush into signing him to a long-term deal. As pointed out though, he will possibly be cheaper in this scenario but not by much.

 

 

EDIT: btw I found this stat interesting, per TG:

 

The Devils improved to 6-1-0 this season when dressing seven defensemen. 

Edited by Neb00rs, 24 March 2014 - 01:42 PM.

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#1340 Triumph

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:45 PM

The point, is that as I've laid out, the alternating between the goalies has been justified. The rules never favored Marty or gave special treatment to him. Even if you say he's been given "all the leash in the world" the numbers throughout the year do not point to that as seen above. Cory has not been 'great' in any regard aside from a few periods throughout the year. DeBoer clearly realizes this and has chosen his starting goalie accordingly.  Saying that "Brodeur is bad and Cory is good" proves nothing and really isn't a true simplification. Especially lately.

 

Your point is wrong.  You have separated things by months.  Is this how coaches make their decisions?   

 

The rules have absolutely given special treatment to Brodeur, because he has ended up with as many games as Schneider, despite being considerably worse.

 

 

The fact that you think your logic proves that Brodeur should get the net now says it all.  Look at the last 150 games - who is the better goalie, the guy who is posting one of the best SV% of all time or the guy who is posting below average save percentages?  The Devils couldn't win a game for Schneider, Brodeur complained about his playing time, and that's why the Devils are as far out of the race as they are.  The fact that Brodeur is going to end up with 40 games this year is criminal.


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