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GDT 7: Devils @ Senators aka first win of the season 730pm MSG+


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#361 Marv4Life

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:50 AM

Exactly. Before the Red Wings became a powerhouse in the 90's they had a really extended period of absolute suckage.

Except the Wings haven't missed the postseason in how long now?


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#362 dmann422

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:53 AM

Just keep thinking it's the coach that's the problem. NJ's been a break-even team shots-wise and they haven't gotten any big saves except from Schneider.

It's scary how Schneider isn't getting the goal support that Marty is so far (2 goals vs 11). Not sure if it's just coincidence, but if Schneider and Marty flipped starts we probably win each of the isles oil and flames games.
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#363 DJ Eco

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:57 AM

Schneider in tomorrow. Good call, DeBoer.


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#364 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:22 PM

You don't get a farewell tour in pro sports unless you are good.  No one wants to see a legend be awful.

 

Says it all.  No one wants to see a former great be a shell of what he was...especially his own fans.  And what makes it even worse is when that final season is as rough as it looks like it could be for Marty, a good number of fans will forget the many years that came before it, and turn on him.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#365 DJ Eco

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:30 PM

The amount of Rangers fans that were crossing their fingers that Brodeur get the start tomorrow says it all. Schneider should be the #1.


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#366 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:38 PM

Except the Wings haven't missed the postseason in how long now?

 

Yes, they've been good for a while NOW.  From '66-'83 they missed the playoffs 15 out of 17 seasons.  You saw the Devils make it in 18 out of 19 seasons ('89-'10), and reach five SC Finals to boot...one of them outside that 19-season window, no less, after a rough '10-'11 campaign.  The party will end for the Wings eventually, just like it does for everybody else at some point.  But there's a lot of franchises that haven't had a party in a looooooooong time.  Outside of when the Devils first came to NJ (and clearly had to build from the ground up), there hasn't been an extended stretch of futility for this franchise yet.  Wow, the Devils MAY actually miss the playoffs in three out of four seasons...always sucks to not make it, but just look at some of the teams closest to the Devils geographically:  both NY teams, Philly, Pitt, Washington...they've all had bad stretches...some of them comically so.   

 

The entitled types always think the party goes on forever, but it doesn't.  We'll take our turn in the futility barrel too.


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 18 October 2013 - 12:40 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#367 jim777

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:51 PM

 

 

You don't get a farewell tour in pro sports unless you are good.  No one wants to see a legend be awful.

 

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.


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#368 coldply123

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:00 PM

For sure. I became a die hard in 99 so I've known nothing but success. I don't mind having some lean years if that's what it takes to get back to the playoffs consistently. When you don't have much success drafting/trading away draft picks, you're success is unsustainable. Makes what Detroit has going on even more special.

I will say this- the Devils drafting has gotten A LOT better in the recent years

Larsson
Henrique
Boucher
Merrill
Severson
Gelinas
Matteau
Josefson
Santini


Come on now.

None have a verifiable sample to be able to qualify your statement aside from Henrique. Not even Josefson but so far he has not done anything. Larsson was the fourth overall pick and at this moment is being treated like he has the plague.

I can go back in time every year and find someone willing to plow some list together. Fans
always love and overhype their prospects until they see them and are disappointed.

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.


Unfortunate for those kids they have seen some of the worst.

Schneider in tomorrow. Good call, DeBoer.


It is the only call and should we lose it may potentially be his last.
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#369 Triumph

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:02 PM

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.

 

I'm trying to think of great athletes I saw at the end of the line when I was that age and I can't really think of any.  I guess I saw Lawrence Taylor's last season, but Lawrence Taylor in highlight films is this ridiculously dominant player, and he's not that to me, because I didn't see that guy, I saw a pretty good linebacker who was past his prime.


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#370 Mike Brown

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:03 PM

I think patrik Elias sums up the game and the season as a whole perfectly:


Elias is 100% correct.
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#371 coldply123

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

Just keep thinking it's the coach that's the problem. NJ's been a break-even team shots-wise and they haven't gotten any big saves except from Schneider.


You don't get a farewell tour in pro sports unless you are good. No one wants to see a legend be awful.


Brodeur and Lou are in the same boat as Deboer as to this ridiculous handling of goalies the last few yrs. Lou needs to use whatever rapport he has with Brodeur to make things clear about his role.
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Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

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#372 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.

 

For the balance of his career, yes.  Right now, he is clearly no longer that player.  All Tri is trying to say (and I agree with him) is that people generally don't enjoy watching former greats struggle just to be passable.  I'd like to think that all of the other current Devils on this team feel like they can compete for a playoff spot, and aren't here to be caddies to a former great.  It's not their jobs nor the Devils franchise's job to sacrifice the 2013-14 season so some 12-year-olds can say "Yeah, I got to see Martin Brodeur play at the very end of his career...it was rough, and he clearly wasn't very good anymore, but at least I got to see him." 

 

This team has to look like it's putting trying to win ahead of a victory lap...they miss the playoffs again, but at least give the impression that they were trying to get there, first and foremost.    


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#373 jim777

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:15 PM

For the balance of his career, yes.  Right now, he is clearly no longer that player.  All Tri is trying to say (and I agree with him) is that people generally don't enjoy watching former greats struggle just to be passable.  I'd like to think that all of the other current Devils on this team feel like they can compete for a playoff spot, and aren't here to be caddies to a former great.  It's not their jobs nor the Devils franchise's job to sacrifice the 2013-14 season so some 12-year-olds can say "Yeah, I got to see Martin Brodeur play at the very end of his career...it was rough, and he clearly wasn't very good anymore, but at least I got to see him." 

 

This team has to look like it's putting trying to win ahead of a victory lap...they miss the playoffs again, but at least give the impression that they were trying to get there, first and foremost.    

 

It's not about whether or not people enjoy seeing him struggle or sparkle. It is almost certainly his last year in the league, and the first time in a very long time we will be playing away games against every team in the NHL. Like I said earlier, unless he starts coughing up huge amounts of goals per period he's going to play in front of those road fans so they can see him one more (last) time. Maybe not in Philly/Manhattan/LI, but everywhere else.

And Lou will assume everything is good enough until it isn't. And again, I'm not bitching about it, just saying my expectations for the year aren't high, and Marty's age isn't the only reason. It's the fact the whole damned team is too old. Anyway.........


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#374 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:17 PM

I'm trying to think of great athletes I saw at the end of the line when I was that age and I can't really think of any.  I guess I saw Lawrence Taylor's last season, but Lawrence Taylor in highlight films is this ridiculously dominant player, and he's not that to me, because I didn't see that guy, I saw a pretty good linebacker who was past his prime.

 

My uncle (born 1955 I think) has been a Yankee fan since birth, and he remembers Mickey Mantle's last few seasons.  Said they were pretty tough to take, though he was pretty little when Mickey was finishing out his prime years, so it's not like he had a ton of memories of Mickey's best seasons (1952-1964). 

 

Things were different back then, in terms of how faded stars were treated on their way out...towards the end, Mantle had to move to first base due to his bad knees, and in one game, a rookie decided to take advantage and bunt his way on.  When he got back to the dugout, his manager and some of his teammates immediately got on his case, basically saying "We don't ever do that to Mickey out of respect.  We don't want to make him look bad."  At the very end, an opposing pitcher said "I'm going to lob strikes down the middle of the plate, just to let him hit one out."  He even had the catcher tell Mantle how he was going to pitch him.  (I think that's how Mickey hit home run #535...his second-to-last one in the majors.) 

 

Suffice it to say shooters aren't going to ease up on Marty because they feel sorry for him, or because the Devils might not be very good (just like Mantle's last Yankee teams).  I don't think too many hardcore 12-year-old sports fans want to see teams make Marty look bad. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#375 Triumph

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

My uncle (born 1955 I think) has been a Yankee fan since birth, and he remembers Mickey Mantle's last few seasons.  Said they were pretty tough to take, though he was pretty little when Mickey was finishing out his prime years, so it's not like he had a ton of memories of Mickey's best seasons (1952-1964). 

 

Things were different back then, in terms of how faded stars were treated on their way out...towards the end, Mantle had to move to first base due to his bad knees, and in one game, a rookie decided to take advantage and bunt his way on.  When he got back to the dugout, his manager and some of his teammates immediately got on his case, basically saying "We don't ever do that to Mickey out of respect.  We don't want to make him look bad."  At the very end, an opposing pitcher said "I'm going to lob strikes down the middle of the plate, just to let him hit one out."  He even had the catcher tell Mantle how he was going to pitch him.  (I think that's how Mickey hit home run #535...his second-to-last one in the majors.) 

 

Suffice it to say shooters aren't going to ease up on Marty because they feel sorry for him, or because the Devils might not be very good (just like Mantle's last Yankee teams).  I don't think too many hardcore 12-year-old sports fans want to see teams make Marty look bad. 

 

Hockey's just a much different game.  There isn't room for respect in it really - the only thing players can do to one another is not throw body checks (which I'm pretty sure happened to Gretzky at the end of his career when he was slower).  There's room for respect in baseball like that when only one team makes the playoffs from each league and most of them are competing for nothing.


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#376 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

Hockey's just a much different game.  There isn't room for respect in it really - the only thing players can do to one another is not throw body checks (which I'm pretty sure happened to Gretzky at the end of his career when he was slower).  There's room for respect in baseball like that when only one team makes the playoffs from each league and most of them are competing for nothing.

 

I agree.  What I was pointing out (though not specifically) is that there's not going to be any real way for Marty to be propped up and NOT made to look bad (like when teams took it easy on Mantle, both when he was at the plate and in the field).  Like you said, you can ease up checking a Gretzky-type...but I don't expect shooters to ease up on their shots, or not take advantage of Marty if he's flopping or not moving side-to-side well...or to pass up on an easy goal if Marty's way out of position. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#377 DJ Eco

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:12 PM

I'm trying to think of great athletes I saw at the end of the line when I was that age and I can't really think of any.  I guess I saw Lawrence Taylor's last season, but Lawrence Taylor in highlight films is this ridiculously dominant player, and he's not that to me, because I didn't see that guy, I saw a pretty good linebacker who was past his prime.

 

For me, Michael Jordan would be the standout of the group. Also, a lot of soccer greats that retired around that time too, Roberto Baggio, Romario, etc., standing out in that group (for me at least).

 

I see a lot of similarities between Baggio and Brodeur, both with a (relatively) quiet passion to keep playing the game, and not in it for the press or the fame. Baggio kept up a pretty high level of play (as has Brodeur, who was crucial in the 2011 playoff run in my opinion) but didn't go out doing anything too notable, just wanted to keep playing the game.


Edited by DJ Eco, 18 October 2013 - 02:16 PM.

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#378 smelly

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:12 PM

Huh? Ten teams make the playoffs in baseball.
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#379 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:16 PM

Huh? Ten teams make the playoffs in baseball.

 

Not when Mantle was playing.  No playoff rounds back then.  Just the National League and the American League teams with the best records make the postseason...straight to the World Series. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#380 ATLL765

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.

I highly doubt there's droves of 12 year old's that are gonna wax poetic about Marty. I will because I got to see Marty through his prime and be a quality goalie nearly my whole life, but not 12 year old's.


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