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GDT: Devils @ Bruins 7PM: BRODEUR in Beantown


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#321 dmann422

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:16 AM

Anyone who argues against pulling the goalie 6 on 3 needs to also argue against pulling the goalie to make it 6 on 5.

If your argument is that the opponent can score on the empty net, well yeah that's always the case when you pull the goalie whether it's a one man or three man advantage.
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#322 DJ Eco

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:36 AM

:e-drama:


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#323 Marshall

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:12 AM

Just realised...I hope this game is covered/featured in the next episode of Behind the B.


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#324 hystyk28

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 03:45 PM

Anyone who argues against pulling the goalie 6 on 3 needs to also argue against pulling the goalie to make it 6 on 5.

If your argument is that the opponent can score on the empty net, well yeah that's always the case when you pull the goalie whether it's a one man or three man advantage.

 

Really, They aren't even remotely comparable and if you need an explanation why, then the conversation is already lost.  Are you sure that I am not saying the risk of giving up an empty netter and killing the 90 second 5 on 3 is not worth the additional skater to make it 6 on 3. Because that is what I am saying.  Don't expect a lot to agree or even understand the difference because people just think more is better. 

 

Again, if the team is .500 or better, I bet Pete doesn't make that move, which is what started the whole conversation for those interested.


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#325 Devils731

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 03:52 PM

I think every team, at any record, pulls their goalie because it's easily the correct move.

It's hard enough to clear the puck when down 2 guys, being down 3 makes it nigh impossible. It's no slam dunk scoring when up 2 guys but you certainly increase your odds if you add a 3rd extra player.

So I face extremely minimal risk of allowing a goal and increase my odds of scoring, really a no brainer. I didn't see anyone attached to the game act surprised the goalie was pulled, if the move had any controversy to it then it would have been made an issue, regardless of success.
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#326 hystyk28

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

The shot rate has gone up significantly in the last few games.  They were at 26 shots per 60 minutes at 5 on 4 3 games ago, now they are at 36.  And it's not like they were up against weak PKs either - all 3 PKs they've faced finished in the top 10 of shots allowed last year.  I'm not saying the PP is fixed, but they are getting much better zone entries and it's leading to much better results.  Whether they can sustain that, I don't know, but I'm no longer concerned about NJ's PP being historically awful.

 Agreed. The PP is looking better, way better. The "bombs away" approach was much needed.  As a PK unit, sometimes it is really nice when the passes the puck on the outside of the perimeter the whole time. Make it a much easier kill and saves legs for when there is an opportunity to go shorthanded. When you are trying to block shots and get to rebounds, both off the goalie and elsewhere it becomes tiring and is much harder to predict what is happening next.  Of course if you skew one way or the other, (pass too much, shoot too much, drink too much) then the results aren't good either.  That crucial blend is what makes a PP good. The Devils are now skirting into that area and with some increase in players confidence I think the PP can sustain a top 10 ranking, which is huge for this team.


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#327 Devils731

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 03:56 PM

http://blogs.northje...r_play_surging/

Zidlicky’s tying goal came on a rare 6-on-3. Trailing 3-2, the Devils went on a 5-on-3 with 1:49 remaining when Patrice Bergeron received a delay of game minor for clearing the puck over the glass with Torey Krug already in the box on a high sticking double minor.

DeBoer decided to pull Broduer with 1:24 left to make it a 6-on-3, sending Bernier on as the extra attacker to screen goaltender Tuukka Rask. With Bernier in front, Zidlicky blasted a shot from the right point that beat Rask over the right shoulder.

Like Brodeur, DeBoer didn’t remember a situation previously in which the pulled a goaltender to get a 6-on-3.

“I don’t remember having done that in the past and we did talk about it on the bench and we had differing opinions,” he said. “I think (goalie coach) Chris Terreri wanted him out with over two minutes left (when the Devils were on a 5-on-4) and some other guys wanted to wait a little longer. I don’t think there’s a right answer there. If you score, it’s the right answer. If you get scored against, it’s a poor decision.

“I think I felt that Rask was not going to let in something that he saw and we needed our best net-front guy in front of the net and that’s what went into the decision and that’s why we got Bernier out there.”

DeBoer believes having the sixth attacker definitely made a difference on the tying goal.

“On a regular 5-on-3, you’re probably not planting somebody where Bernier stood,” he said. “Bernier went out there with the sole purpose of standing on the edge of the crease and screening Rask, so that helped for sure.”
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#328 nessus

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:26 PM

Brodeur, DeBoer 
 

Try saying that 5 times fast


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#329 hystyk28

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:27 PM

http://blogs.northje...r_play_surging/

Zidlicky’s tying goal came on a rare 6-on-3. Trailing 3-2, the Devils went on a 5-on-3 with 1:49 remaining when Patrice Bergeron received a delay of game minor for clearing the puck over the glass with Torey Krug already in the box on a high sticking double minor.

DeBoer decided to pull Broduer with 1:24 left to make it a 6-on-3, sending Bernier on as the extra attacker to screen goaltender Tuukka Rask. With Bernier in front, Zidlicky blasted a shot from the right point that beat Rask over the right shoulder.

Like Brodeur, DeBoer didn’t remember a situation previously in which the pulled a goaltender to get a 6-on-3.

“I don’t remember having done that in the past and we did talk about it on the bench and we had differing opinions,” he said. “I think (goalie coach) Chris Terreri wanted him out with over two minutes left (when the Devils were on a 5-on-4) and some other guys wanted to wait a little longer. I don’t think there’s a right answer there. If you score, it’s the right answer. If you get scored against, it’s a poor decision.

“I think I felt that Rask was not going to let in something that he saw and we needed our best net-front guy in front of the net and that’s what went into the decision and that’s why we got Bernier out there.”

DeBoer believes having the sixth attacker definitely made a difference on the tying goal.

“On a regular 5-on-3, you’re probably not planting somebody where Bernier stood,” he said. “Bernier went out there with the sole purpose of standing on the edge of the crease and screening Rask, so that helped for sure.”

 

http://www.nj.com/de...lay_before.html

 

“I don’t remember having done that in the past,” DeBoer said. “We did talk about it on the bench and we had differing opinions. (Goalie coach) Chris Terreri wanted (Brodeur) out with over two minutes left. Some other guys wanted to wait a little longer.

I don’t think there is a right answer there. If you score, it’s the right answer. If you get scored against it’s a poor decision. I think I felt that (Tuukka) Rask was not going to let in something that he saw. We needed to get our best net front guy in front of the net. That’s what went into the decision and that’s why we got (Steve) Bernier out there.”

 

And there you have it.  I am obviously a moron.


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#330 Devils731

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:32 PM

Yes, they all agreed they'd do it. Some wanted it earlier, some a little later, but everyone seems to agree they should do it at some point.

Maybe I'm wrong but you seem to be saying don't pull the goalie at all with a 5 on 3 because it's too risky, which appears not to have even been considered a viable approach there.

You also highlighted the part of the quote that is results oriented, which I am not and which you said everyone else was being, so I assume that's not part of your argument.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

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#331 Triumph

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:42 PM

DeBoer can't possibly think that, it sounds like there he's talking in the voice of the media/fans when he's describing it as if they score, it's wrong, if we score, it's right.


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#332 NCDevsFan

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:46 PM

I seem to recall a few years ago when Sutter pulled Marty with about 6-8 minutes to play when they were down 2 goals to the Canes. Can't recall if they scored on that or not.

 

Anyway, that's my contribution.


Edited by NCDevsFan, 28 October 2013 - 04:47 PM.

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#333 hystyk28

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:47 PM

DeBoer can't possibly think that, it sounds like there he's talking in the voice of the media/fans when he's describing it as if they score, it's wrong, if we score, it's right.

 

 Nice try. He is clearly saying what I have said all along.


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#334 Devils731

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:49 PM

Nice try. He is clearly saying what I have said all along.


Wait, the guy saying we aren't being logical but instead swayed by the result is saying DeBoer is right by saying the result dictates if it was the right move?
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#335 hystyk28

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:58 PM

Yes, they all agreed they'd do it. Some wanted it earlier, some a little later, but everyone seems to agree they should do it at some point.

Maybe I'm wrong but you seem to be saying don't pull the goalie at all with a 5 on 3 because it's too risky, which appears not to have even been considered a viable approach there.

You also highlighted the part of the quote that is results oriented, which I am not and which you said everyone else was being, so I assume that's not part of your argument.

 No, I said that it was too early too pull Marty, not that he shouldn't be pulled. And this was all started by me saying that this move was one of Deboer feeling the heat.  Now, you can say that he was trying to win the game, but I think most in here feel Pete is on the hotseat andI believe that this move was indicative of that. Of course there is no way to quantify that, so I guess we can just have our own opinions there.

 

The whole time I said the result has steered this conversation and Pete supports that with what he said.

 

Go back and read what I have written, it is basically a Cliff Notes of his press conference.  I will say this, that was one hell of a wild game.


I seem to recall a few years ago when Sutter pulled Marty with about 6-8 minutes to play when they were down 2 goals to the Canes. Can't recall if they scored on that or not.

 

Anyway, that's my contribution.

 

Yeah, that was crazy.  Being on the ice in that situation must be strange.


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#336 Devils731

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:59 PM

So what is the right amount of time to pull a goalie during a 5 on 3?

Chris Terreri wanted to pull Marty at 2 minutes to make it a 6 on 4. Which is a move uncolored by results and which I would have agreed with.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#337 hystyk28

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:05 PM

Wait, the guy saying we aren't being logical but instead swayed by the result is saying DeBoer is right by saying the result dictates if it was the right move?

 

Can you read?  He is obviously saying that it looks like the right decision since they scored, but he knows it would be a different if it didn't work out.

 

I  never said you weren't being logical, but Pete's press conference CLEARLY supports my points.


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#338 Devils731

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

Can you read? He is obviously saying that it looks like the right decision since they scored, but he knows it would be a different if it didn't work out.

I never said you weren't being logical, but Pete's press conference CLEARLY supports my points.


I really don't get your point. Should we be results oriented in judging if the move was correct or judge it sans results?

I think we should judge the move disregarding the result. I would have said it was the right move even if they didn't score. I've been a person arguing pulling a goalie early was correct when it didn't work out. So I obviously am not arguing this point only because it worked out.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#339 hystyk28

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

So what is the right amount of time to pull a goalie during a 5 on 3?

Chris Terreri wanted to pull Marty at 2 minutes to make it a 6 on 4. Which is a move uncolored by results and which I would have agreed with.

 

That's a great question, almost impossible to answer, but hopefully you don't need to, but if you do somewhere around 45-50 seconds.

 

I love the aggressiveness of Terreri and was thinking 6 on 4 myself, but luckily Bergeron took the DOG penalty and made that point moot.

 

My biggest concern is Pete's tone about shooutout's and how bad he knows the team is.  Well, Mr. Deboer, you better figure it out as I have a feeling that is gonna be the difference in making the playoffs.  I watched TBL Coach Cooper send Hedman and Salo in the shootout(first 3 shooters) last night because the normal snipers were struggling.  Pete should entertain Zids in going during the SO.


Edited by hystyk28, 28 October 2013 - 05:16 PM.

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#340 Triumph

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

 Nice try. He is clearly saying what I have said all along.

 

Funny, he didn't mention anything about being on the coaching hot seat or being desperate for a win.


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