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#41 Daniel

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:51 PM

You can't want Merrill to stay in the minors all year and for the Devils to trade a defenseman on the roster. That would leave NJ with 6 guys + Gelinas and a bunch of guys in the minors with 0 NHL experience, the best of whom is clearly Merrill.

Merrill will probably get some games anyway, even as #9 on the depth chart. Injuries happen.


Why is 7 defenseman with one being Gelinas such a calamity?


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#42 Triumph

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:02 PM

Why is 7 defenseman with one being Gelinas such a calamity?


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Because as I just explained, the previous poster wanted Merrill to stay in the minors all year.  You're not likely to have both - if you ditch a defenseman, Merrill is 8th, and the 8th guy almost always plays in an 82 game season.

 

Even so, I don't want it because it's good to have more players capable of playing.  


Edited by Triumph, 28 October 2013 - 09:03 PM.

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#43 NJDevs4978

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:28 PM

I mean Merrill can play ten games as an injury callup to get his feet wet, I just don't want him as a regular.  You're too wrapped up in who the #8 defenseman is, odds are if you're at a point where the #8 defenseman is playing over half the games you're in trouble regardless. This isn't NHL14, you can't hoard NHL defensemen in the minors or in the scratch box indefinitely for a rainy day when they need wins now and the best people need to play and the young defensemen need to develop.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 28 October 2013 - 10:30 PM.

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#44 Daniel

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:38 PM

I mean Merrill can play ten games as an injury callup to get his feet wet, I just don't want him as a regular. You're too wrapped up in who the #8 defenseman is, odds are if you're at a point where the #8 defenseman is playing over half the games you're in trouble regardless. This isn't NHL14, you can't hoard NHL defensemen bein the minors or in the scratch box indefinitely for a rainy day when they need wins now and the best people need to play and the young defensemen need to develop.


Who knows, he could get called up, play real well, and be here for good.

I wouldn't change the roster just to get him here this year, but I wouldn't assume that he can't be anything more than a garbage time stopgap.



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#45 NJDevs4978

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:55 PM

Having 7 capable forwards, as the Devils did at the beginning of 11-12, didn't do them a lot of good either.  And thankfully the offense was horrible in 10-11 so everyone here forgets the Magnan-Corrente days on defense.  Getting caught with sub-replacement players sucks.

 

Except those guys weren't the eighth defensemen, they were more like the tenth-eleventh defensemen.  Sal got hurt before the year, missed the season.  Volch and Fraser missed significant time the first couple months.  Taormina was the first month revelation and then he got hurt never to be seen again.  Nobody's going to overcome 'that' amount of injuries and with our lack of system it wouldn't have mattered anyway.  The quality guys we had were playing like crap never mind those guys.


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#46 Triumph

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:06 AM

I mean Merrill can play ten games as an injury callup to get his feet wet, I just don't want him as a regular.  You're too wrapped up in who the #8 defenseman is, odds are if you're at a point where the #8 defenseman is playing over half the games you're in trouble regardless. This isn't NHL14, you can't hoard NHL defensemen in the minors or in the scratch box indefinitely for a rainy day when they need wins now and the best people need to play and the young defensemen need to develop.

 

Your position here is utterly contradictory.  You say 'You can't hoard NHL defensemen in the minors' and then you say 'I want Merrill in the AHL indefinitely' and bemoan the Devils' tendency of 'rushing prospects'.  It doesn't add up, unless you have a constant stream of NHL players coming out of your AHL system.  

 

I'm not too wrapped up in who the 8th defenseman is, I want my team to be good even if it suffers injuries, and the #8 defenseman plays, period.  He plays a lot of games for most teams - at least 30 games.  I'd rather have someone who can play than who cannot play.  Past Merrill, NJ only has 4 D even signed to NHL contracts (Burlon, Helgeson, Scarlett, Hraberenka), two of whom are clearly not ready for NHL action.

 

As for 2010-11, you're forgetting Fayne, who was #10 on the depth chart but got up here, played very well, and was never sent back to the minors.  There was also Salmela who was hurt all season up until December.  Generally that's not what happens though, generally you get guys who are awful, and so your top guys have to play 25-26 minutes a game.


Edited by Triumph, 29 October 2013 - 10:09 AM.

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#47 NJDevs4978

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:32 AM

Now indefinitely = this year? There's nothing contradictory about it, Merrill hasn't played a full length season yet, he should get used to the everyday grind in the AHL for most of this season. Gelinas has been in the AHL for multiple seasons, if he isn't ready now then he'll most likely never be.

Merrill's good enough to play as an injury fill in which is what the #8 guy is. Right now he's #9, even with a trade he'd be #8 which is fine. Especially if Harrold goes back to the role he should be in. I'm just tired of screwing up our assets. Losing Urbom for nothing, screwing around with Larsson, stunting Fayne's career (and having him walk for nothing too) I'm tired of it. Plus god forbid we trade one of the young d-man for a young forward, which we clearly need.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 29 October 2013 - 10:34 AM.

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#48 jim777

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:47 PM

I thought Gelinas played pretty well the last few games, but I didn't see the whole games so I admit my sample size is small.


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#49 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:11 PM

I agree with Mr. Deboer. I would like nothing better than to anoint Gelinas as the second coming of Al MacInnis, but that'll have to wait until I've seen more of him than 3 NHL games total. I will however say that his presence back there, assuming he can be trusted to maintain his defensive game properly, is vitally intimidating once play reaches the offensive zone and opposing teams are going to have to adjust for him in ways they haven't against us in a long time. That in and of itself is vitally important to our offensive game and makes us a much more difficult team to play against.

 

Then, with his size, if Mr. Stevens can help him fine tune his game in the defensive zone, he can become quite the all purpose defenseman at this level. He's got all the tools necessary and thusfar his hockey sense has been pretty decent. If he can show that his last two games weren't just the rookie adrenaline and that this is really the player he is game in and game out then we'll have quite the star on our hands.


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#50 Triumph

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:31 PM

Now indefinitely = this year? There's nothing contradictory about it, Merrill hasn't played a full length season yet, he should get used to the everyday grind in the AHL for most of this season. Gelinas has been in the AHL for multiple seasons, if he isn't ready now then he'll most likely never be.

Merrill's good enough to play as an injury fill in which is what the #8 guy is. Right now he's #9, even with a trade he'd be #8 which is fine. Especially if Harrold goes back to the role he should be in. I'm just tired of screwing up our assets. Losing Urbom for nothing, screwing around with Larsson, stunting Fayne's career (and having him walk for nothing too) I'm tired of it. Plus god forbid we trade one of the young d-man for a young forward, which we clearly need.

 

Losing Urbom for nothing is rough but it's a consequence of having players who can play in the NHL.  I don't hear much crying about this loss anymore since Gelinas came up.  Also Urbom has been a healthy scratch for Washington and his microstats look rather bad (small sample though) - it wouldn't surprise me if Washington stuck him on waivers again this season. Stunting Fayne's career?  Fayne is 26 years old.  He'll play in his 200th NHL game tonight.  His career is fine.  Larsson did not play well in the first 5 games - I think it's good to make players aware that if their play suffers, they won't play.  And yes, before you ask, he was clearly worse than Volchenkov.  The healthy scratches last year are too bad, but he's not better than Peter Harrold at this stage of his career.

 

Trading a young defenseman, after having lost Urbom, would be idiotic.  The Devils have Gelinas, Merrill, and Severson as potential NHLers in the next 2 years.  On their defense right now, there's 5 guys who are UFA either this year or next, and then Volchenkov, who I don't think will be here next year.  Salvador and Zidlicky could be on their final NHL contracts.  You think Fayne is definitely not here next year, and indeed, with how the coaching staff uses him when he is getting in games, that may be the case (although I don't think he has a ton of value around the NHL - someone's going to get a real good deal on him).  Now if they wanted to sign a big name UFA and then trade one of these guys for a forward, fine, but trading defense prospects is not easy, and the Devils don't have a bunch of D in their prime who are going to block these guys.  They have Larsson and that is it.


Edited by Triumph, 29 October 2013 - 01:33 PM.

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#51 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Trading a young defenseman, after having lost Urbom, would be idiotic.  The Devils have Gelinas, Merrill, and Severson as potential NHLers in the next 2 years.  On their defense right now, there's 5 guys who are UFA either this year or next, and then Volchenkov, who I don't think will be here next year.  Salvador and Zidlicky could be on their final NHL contracts.  You think Fayne is definitely not here next year, and indeed, with how the coaching staff uses him when he is getting in games, that may be the case (although I don't think he has a ton of value around the NHL - someone's going to get a real good deal on him).  Now if they wanted to sign a big name UFA and then trade one of these guys for a forward, fine, but trading defense prospects is not easy, and the Devils don't have a bunch of D in their prime who are going to block these guys.  They have Larsson and that is it.

 

Brandon Burlon will have played three years in the AHL by start of next season. I would hope he'd be able to take on an 8th defenseman spot by then otherwise it's been pretty useless keeping him in the system.

 

Next year you'll probably have Reece Scarlett and Curtis Gedig starting their first pro season and very likely Seth Helgeson will have had a full year of AHL under his belt. Of these, only Scarlett sees the puck as anything but something to be chucked before it explodes, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be serviceable on a stay at home level. There is still a pipeline, but Merrill and Severson are likely the last of the sweet crude.


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#52 Marshall

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

 

 

Next year you'll probably have Reece Scarlett and Curtis Gedig starting their first pro season and very likely Seth Helgeson will have had a full year of AHL under his belt. Of these, only Scarlett sees the puck as anything but something to be chucked before it explodes, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be serviceable on a stay at home level. There is still a pipeline, but Merrill and Severson are likely the last of the sweet crude.

 

Scarlett is in the AHL. He has played 6 games. 


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#53 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

Scarlett is in the AHL. He has played 6 games. 

My mistake. In that case by next year he'll have a year under his belt.


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#54 redruM

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:10 PM

Most of you know I'm just against players ove rthe age of 32, in gerneral they are on th downside and I think the team would get more out of a kid learning on the job, there is always the exception, I lvoe Sal right now, he's been great, but Vol, please he is slow and takes too many penalties, as for Harold, He;s 31 and still not a regular, why was a roster spot on him, I donot not understand.


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#55 Triumph

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

Brandon Burlon will have played three years in the AHL by start of next season. I would hope he'd be able to take on an 8th defenseman spot by then otherwise it's been pretty useless keeping him in the system.

 

Next year you'll probably have Reece Scarlett and Curtis Gedig starting their first pro season and very likely Seth Helgeson will have had a full year of AHL under his belt. Of these, only Scarlett sees the puck as anything but something to be chucked before it explodes, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be serviceable on a stay at home level. There is still a pipeline, but Merrill and Severson are likely the last of the sweet crude.

 

Burlon turns 24 in March, and while I'm not vigilant about keeping up on Albany defensemen, I've never heard anyone mention his name as someone who's really impressing people down there, nor did he have a particularly impressive career at Michigan.  He seems like a body - I wouldn't be surprised if the organization held on to him just because, but there's not a lot of NHL potential there.

 

Gedig is interesting and Scarlett has potential, but these are guys I'd write into a future NHL lineup with very light pencil - a fair amount has to go right for these to be NHL players.


Edited by Triumph, 29 October 2013 - 03:34 PM.

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