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GDT: Bolts at Brodeur-Lead DEVILS 7:30


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#201 SterioDesign

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:59 AM

Pete started Hedberg nine million games in a row last year (and it was like a 7-in-11 stretch too), he'd start Marty two in a row if he had to.  I agree with you it'd probably be a disaster, but it's not like we're out of the woods yet where it's reasonable to expect them to experiment with Kinkaid.

 

Yeah i agree with that, DeBoer REALLY doesnt seem to trust young players at all. This has been shown so often simply the way he's handling young guys, looking the other on most vets mistakes no matter the result but will punish a rookie mistake for weeks. Also in his interviews talking about  young guy "paying their due and deserving a spot" bla bla bla. 

 

Last year when he kept on starting Moose and putting the blame on the offence defending Hedberg even though he would have gave up 7 5-hole goals that game


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#202 Marshall

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:01 AM

Last year when he kept on starting Moose and putting the blame on the offence defending Hedberg even though he would have gave up 7 5-hole goals that game

 

You can't take that stuff seriously. Coaches just don't throw goalies under the bus, even though it's warranted. Whenever they do, it's a huge story. PDB knew who was to blame and it's easier to blame the group than the individual. Everybody in that room knew who was not performing, Hedberg included.


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#203 SterioDesign

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:19 AM

You can't take that stuff seriously. Coaches just don't throw goalies under the bus, even though it's warranted. Whenever they do, it's a huge story. PDB knew who was to blame and it's easier to blame the group than the individual. Everybody in that room knew who was not performing, Hedberg included.

 

Never said he should have thrown him under the bus (ala Torts) be in this situation it would not have been crazy to give a game to Kincaid at that point.


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#204 EdgeControl

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:27 AM

Just one point out of second place...the joys of playing in a division where exactly one team has a winning record...

Think about the NY football giants! lol


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#205 Marshall

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:28 AM

Never said he should have thrown him under the bus (ala Torts) be in this situation it would not have been crazy to give a game to Kincaid at that point.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood. Yeah, I believe quite a few people were calling for that as well.


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#206 NJDevs4978

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:29 AM

I don't really put too much stock into single game faceoffs though due to sample size. Zajac's not a great faceoff man but neither is anyone on the Devils (min. 80 FO's: Zajac 51.0%, Loktinov 44.8, Gionta 44.6, Elias 43.4%, Henrique 40.8%). Plus Zajac has taken 200 draws while the next most for a Devil player is 147.

Zajac struggled tonight but oddly enough had his most success (3/4) against Filppula who is TB's best faceoff man at 56.2% whom he faced more than any other TB player. At the end of the day it just wasn't Zajac's night in the circle while Henrique did much better than usual.

Zajac had the best FO% (min. 300 draws) last year for any Devil at 57.4% while taking 201 more of them than Henrique who had the 2nd most attempts and 2nd best FO% at 49.0. Zajac pretty much missed 2011-12. In 2010-11 Zajac took 1,278 draws, 528 more then Arnott who had the 2nd most attempts and 3rd best FO% (min. 400 draws) at 51.3 while Zajac's was 55.3 which was 2nd on the team, though Zubrus who led only took 449 draws. Trend tends to keep repeating in the preceding years as well. Zajac may not be great when it comes to faceoffs, but he doesn't hurt the Devils. Add in what he does during the play after the draw and that's why I am such a believer in the contract Lou gave him.

Another thing is I feel like FO% can be a bit misleading in a general sense. I do value it, but maybe not as much as others. The main reason for this is there are occasions where you intentionally lose by pushing the puck forward (neutral zone draw push puck into offensive zone) so that you can try to create a turnover on the forecheck or get setup in the neutral zone to create a tough zone entry for the opposition. I know this isn't the case most of the time but teams I played for often used set plays like that.

 

I'd take 55-57% from him.  When you go from that to 51%, that's kind of a significant dropoff for a guy like Travis.  You can say it's a small sample size so far but that wasn't my point.  If he's not going to score you kind of want Travis to 'at least' be +55% in faceoffs (especially with the lack of options elsewhere) and he hasn't been that this year.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 30 October 2013 - 07:30 AM.

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#207 redruM

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:46 AM

I'll keep on my same theme, Gelinas needs to be inthe NHL, he has gotten everything he can out of the Rats, his shot from the point onthe PP, is reason enough, its scarey!


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#208 Marshall

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:48 AM

I'd take 55-57% from him.  When you go from that to 51%, that's kind of a significant dropoff for a guy like Travis.  You can say it's a small sample size so far but that wasn't my point.  If he's not going to score you kind of want Travis to 'at least' be +55% in faceoffs (especially with the lack of options elsewhere) and he hasn't been that this year.

 

If he'd won 8 more draws to date he'd been at 55%. That difference is so small you could probably chalk it up to the scorer, or the wingers for that matter. Not to mention they've played a lot of road games. Sample size, debatable influence of face offs on scoring etc etc, but I think this is a pretty unimportant stat at this point in the season.


Edited by Marshall, 30 October 2013 - 07:48 AM.

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#209 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:50 AM

was wondering what the attendance was for tonight.. didnt look as empty as i was really expecting it to be in there.

 

Surprised the official attendance was that low.  Thought there were more people in the building than that. 


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#210 2ELIAS6

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:27 AM

Larsson was fantastic. Gelinas struggled a bit but man do I love his slap shot. Refreshing to see a Dman of ours not softly wrist a puck towards goal. Marty was decent but def looks slower this year on reflexes and recovery.

maybe its a consistency thing for him.. cant imagine him being much slower then last year.. well see how he looks saturday i guess that will be 3 straight games for him.. being he plays which im sure they are going to play him again
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#211 Colin226

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

I was at the game in Boston too! What a game...

 

If you high 5'd and/or hugged a complete stranger in a Broduer jersey, odds are it was me :lol:


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#212 Triumph

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:07 AM

Haha who cares where Zajac is in faceoffs, he probably takes more PK faceoffs than PP faceoffs, which lowers his percentage.  Amazing how people obsess over faceoffs but don't care about shots %, where Zajac is killing it (again).


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#213 2ELIAS6

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:13 AM

zajac is good defensively.. there was one play in our own end i specifically recall him breaking up last night and just thinking to myself wow.. now i see what everyone has been talking about.. he seems to be pretty decent with face offs(just off of watching and taking note not looking at stats) .. just really wish he contributed to scoring more goals we need that out of him and it really seems like were not going to get it.. but what im saying is at least hes not completely useless and he shines in other areas.. but we still need some goals from him
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#214 lazer

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:16 AM

scuderi broke his ankle...yez excellent


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#215 SterioDesign

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:36 AM

Haha who cares where Zajac is in faceoffs, he probably takes more PK faceoffs than PP faceoffs, which lowers his percentage.  Amazing how people obsess over faceoffs but don't care about shots %, where Zajac is killing it (again).

 

Well cause when you win a faceoff most of the time your team get possession of the puck. That's a pretty "favorable result" for the team. A "shot" can be absolutely useless in a lot of cases and the "positive outcome" of a shot has a way lower %.

 

This is a perfect example, if Zajac is losing faceoff the other team gets the puck, Zajac can be "killing it" in shot %... the results are not there at all. And thats whats important. Why would you take a shot other than attempting to score or get a bounce... it's not happening for him now so he's not "killing it"


Edited by SterioDesign, 30 October 2013 - 10:37 AM.

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#216 Marshall

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

Hey, I've seen this movie before!

 

kingofpopcorn1.gif


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#217 Triumph

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:08 AM

Well cause when you win a faceoff most of the time your team get possession of the puck. That's a pretty "favorable result" for the team. A "shot" can be absolutely useless in a lot of cases and the "positive outcome" of a shot has a way lower %.

 

This is a perfect example, if Zajac is losing faceoff the other team gets the puck, Zajac can be "killing it" in shot %... the results are not there at all. And thats whats important. Why would you take a shot other than attempting to score or get a bounce... it's not happening for him now so he's not "killing it"

 

*facepalm* - you're hopeless.  A percentage of shots is so so so so so so so so so so much more important than faceoff %.  Go look at the guys who are top in the league in Fenwick % year after year vs. faceoff percentage, which players would you rather have?  Faceoffs lead to shots.  Shots (and consequently goals) are what win games.  You can't faceoff the puck into the net.


Edited by Triumph, 30 October 2013 - 11:11 AM.

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#218 ATLL765

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:15 AM

This is the way they are going to win games.  It's about time for this ship to turn around but it is turning around.  There was one breakaway against but that was it really for outmanned chances.

 

Brodeur played well tonight but he is a disaster waiting to happen - tremendous save in the 3rd, but he is slow reacting to the play and he is just not able to ever recover if he's moved out of position.  There is no way he could start both games on the weekend - Kinkaid would have to start one of them.

 

Gelinas didn't have a great game tonight, but he was due for that.  He started losing some of thsoe 50/50 battles.    Larsson came out with a shift in the first where he showed what he is going to look like in 3 years and it is going to be quite a good defenseman.

Pretty much agree with everything here. Marty looked lost a couple times when he got stuck outside the crease. He looks slow, which isn't good for a guy who relied a lot on athleticism to make saves.

Gelinas has been losing some 50/50 1on1 battles the whole time he's been here. Think we're just gonna have to deal with it and hope he doesn't screw the pooch at a really bad time. His shot is good and clearly a positive on the PP. Larsson played his best game this season last night. Looked really good.


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#219 Devilsfan118

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:18 AM

 You can't faceoff the puck into the net.

 

Mario Lemieux begs to differ...

 

/sarcasm


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#220 NJDevs4978

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:18 AM

I 'think' Tri meant shot percentage in relation to the number of shots other teams get while Travis is on the ice compared to the number of shots the Devils get as a team when Travis is on the ice...not individual shooting percentage (which has to be horrendous).

And that's fine in terms of his defense, nobody's arguing he's not a terrific defensive forward. But at some point he can't be completely one-dimensional either in terms of results. John Madden in his prime was a more effective offensive player than Zajac has been lately.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 30 October 2013 - 11:21 AM.

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