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If the team continues to struggle, does Lou start to feel the heat?


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#21 NJDevils1214

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

The ability to control, and keep control, of the puck down low like in the cup run is certainly missing right now. The hard workers and big bodies are either gone or not getting the job done(Zubrus). The team has finishers, but not enough skill or the system in place to score on the rush.


Edited by NJDevils1214, 04 November 2013 - 12:50 PM.

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#22 Devilsfan118

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:55 PM

For what he has done for this organization, Lou lamoriello deserves to go out when and how he decides, and not a second before that.

I'm not attacking you personally here, but this is quite possibly the worst mentality the new owners could take. This could doom the devils even further.

No one deserves absolute freedom in the sports business.

Edited by Devilsfan118, 04 November 2013 - 12:56 PM.

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#23 dmann422

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:02 PM

I'm not attacking you personally here, but this is quite possibly the worst mentality the new owners could take. This could doom the devils even further. No one deserves absolute freedom in the sports business.

without Lou's leadership, this team is long gone from New Jersey. So as a fan of this team solely because I'm an nj native, yes he does deserve a lifetime pass from fans.

The owners can do what they want but I won't necessarily agree with it. Plus people are overreacting here he hasn't been that bad (as was summed up nicely in szmanta's post)
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#24 Devilsfan118

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

without Lou's leadership, this team is long gone from New Jersey. So as a fan of this team solely because I'm an nj native, yes he does deserve a lifetime pass from fans.

The owners can do what they want but I won't necessarily agree with it. Plus people are overreacting here he hasn't been that bad (as was summed up nicely in szmanta's post)

 

So, by logic, does Marty 'deserve' to be the starting goaltender as long as he desires to be?  It's the same situation, and I think sometimes the greats have a hard time realizing when they've lost their edge.


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#25 Jerzey Devil

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:15 PM

Parise- He gave every indication that he would stay if we fielded a competitive offer. ZP and Lou both said NJ's offer was right around where Minnesota's was. I, and many others believe that the reason he chose Minny is because he got the lockout guaranteed signing bonus. There is no way, with the state of our finances back then, we could have given him millions of guaranteed money without games. I mean, I guess Lou could've locked up ZP after his knee injury, but that would've been a gamble for obvious reasons and we don't know what JVB's checkbook looked like (Hint: probably not pretty)

 

Kovalchuk- JVB obviously drove the bus with that one. Lou fleeced Waddell and even got the pick that landed us Merrill (RIP). The contract was lunacy, but once again, I wouldn't doubt that JVB told Lou to get it done, no questions asked. I will blame Lou with how he handled the rejected contract and basically challenged the NHL. However, all bias aside, the punishment did not fit the crime. Now here's the real question- how would y'all have handled Kovy's request to go back home? You can: A) keep a disgruntled player here who clearly wasn't giving it his all last season B) let him go and and gain instant/future cap flexibility or C) collude with Kovalchuk to let him go back so that a potential sale would go more swimingly. Not going to blame Lou there

 

Lesser UFA's leaving (Martin, Gionta, Clarkson)- Martin would be nice to have, but not necessary as shown by the 2012 run. Gionta is pretty meh and Clarkson's contract just reeks. Martin is the only one who probably got a fair contract. My memory is pretty hazy, but I believe is was pretty set on leaving anyway.

 

29th Pick- Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh

 

Recent UFA Aquisitions (Ryder, Clowe, Brunner, Jagr, Olesz)- 

 

Goodness that Clowe contract is awful but he is far from a useless player. He has much better playmaking abilities than Clarkson. Still, his contract is about 2 years too long and is 2 million overpaid per year. 

 

Ryder and Brunner are decent offensive pieces, though are far from core players. They need to be put in the right situation to succeed and I'm not sure NJ has the right personnel to do that. Not bad gambles though

 

Jagr- Great move and can be traded at the deadline if need be

 

Olesz- Low risk, medium reward. No problem here

 

Recent Trades of Note:

 

Tallinder for Useless Minor Leaguer- Obvious roster dump, but he's certainly missed. Easiest guy to move and I remember most of NJDevs praised the trade so Larsson and younger players would have room

 

Loktionov for 5th Round Pick- Brilliant move, even if Loktionov has been underwhelming this season. Like I said earlier, this is the kind of thing Lou needs to pull off in order to give our offense new, young blood. Grigorenko, perhaps?

 

Schneider for 9th overall- Another no brainer. Re-signing him will be a different matter though

 

Re-signing of players since '12- 

 

Travis Zajac- Length is fine, probably a bit overpaid but I think these last two games kind of prove how important he is. Does it all, although you feel he could do more offensively. Absolutely necessary to lock him up

 

Patrik Elias- You give the man anything he wants. Still a fantastic player even if the 3rd year could be ugly

 

Zubrus- Looks done to be honest. Early returns aren't flattering and it won't be getting any better

 

Bryce Salvador- Was ready to kick him to the curb after last season, but has rebounded nicely. Still don't like the contract, but whatever

 

Adam Henrique- Getting paid a million too much but another necessary move. Locks up some UFA years to boot

 

Mark Fayne- Another good move. Wish Deboer liked him more 

 

Zidlicky- One year, so not a big deal. Can flip him at the deadline if it comes to that

 

Summation-

 

I ask everyone here: what could Lou have done differently personnel wise? The only thing I could think of is maybe take a flier on Semin, but he was coming off a putrid year in Washington. The losses of Parise and Kovy weren't his fault. The Schneider trade was larssony (heh). Some of the newer contracts stink but every GM makes those sort of mistakes. With Brodeur, Zids and Jagr gone, there will be a ton of space to make changes. 

 

Agree with a lot, just not about Zach. If Zach really had every intention of re-signing he would not have signed that one year deal. That was an obvious sign that Lou missed IMO. Very big mishandling of assets there especially for a high profile guy like Zach.

 

As for losing some of the lesser players to UFA while them leaving didn't really impact our team it would have been nice to get back a pick or prospect instead of just losing them for nothing. I get that when you think you are a contender it doesn't make sense to trade players at the deadline which is why I don't think it should even get that far. If you can't get a deal done before the season then there's an obvious reason why. Lou's "No contact talks during the season" is just stupid IMO. Not everyone is as loyal as Marty and Elias and I think that Lou thinks everyone is or should be.

 

I do like the recent signings except for Clowe (so far). And Lou is magical with trades. 


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#26 The 29th Pick

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:21 PM

You haven't really experienced true darkness yet.  Not too many current Devils fans have.  The only ones who really did were the one who jumped on board the minute the Rockies came here, and even then, I think everyone knew it was going to take some serious time before the team became any good.

 

When this team starts missing the playoffs for 3+ seasons consecutively, then we can start talking about dark times...hell, we're still less than a year-and-a-half removed from being in a Cup final.  But I'm not going to pretend I'm full of optimism as to what the immediate future holds.  I'm preparing myself for a rough year.    

Yeah when they came to Jersey no one expected much, but nowadays we do

Also....the Oilers were in the finals in 2006 and really havent done a thing (thats putting it nicely) since then


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#27 third man in

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:57 PM

I haven't seen mention of this on here yet (might've missed it), but I found this interesting yesterday, as reported by TG:

 

Lamoriello said there was “never anything negative” between him and Parise or Parise and the Devils’ organization and then said something a little strange about Parise’s decision to sign with Minnesota. “There were extenuating circumstances in that whole thing,” Lamoriello said. When I asked if it had anything to do with the ownership situation that summer, Lamoriello would only say, “Everything’s in the past. You go forward.” -

 


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#28 lazer

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:09 PM

 i love debos system, but it showed its faults against the Kings.

 

losing those guys like parise who made his sytem work...fvck that deusch.

 

this roster screams shell defensive trap and debo cant provide that.


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#29 maxpower

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:10 PM

I haven't seen mention of this on here yet (might've missed it), but I found this interesting yesterday, as reported by TG:

 

They couldn't cut him a Brad Richards style front-load.    I don't even think he had to be that vague about it.   Everyone knows.


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#30 dmann422

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:12 PM

So, by logic, does Marty 'deserve' to be the starting goaltender as long as he desires to be? It's the same situation, and I think sometimes the greats have a hard time realizing when they've lost their edge.

I don't see why one has to follow the other. There is a clear difference between the physical demands of hockey and general managing.

It's not like Lou has gone senile (I know some would argue the 29th pick). He's still an effective gm as evidenced by the Schneider trade.

So yes, unless he's put in a mental institution or is convicted of a felony, I have no problem supporting him 100% until he's ready to go.
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#31 EdgeControl

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:14 PM

we knew we were in trouble short term when kovy bolted, but long term its good

zach was a tough deal keep him for a SC run or sell  we went for the run

 

like others the thing which totally pisses me off is the matteau pick, why not give it back there??? stupid!

 

the signing this year are what they are, a mad scramble to feild a team and try and get some goals anyway he could

 

they certainly arent Devil style role models.

btw,  brunner has fallen off the corsi cliff the last 7 of 8 games. he's teddy-like defensively now.


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#32 ATLL765

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:21 PM

So, by logic, does Marty 'deserve' to be the starting goaltender as long as he desires to be?  It's the same situation, and I think sometimes the greats have a hard time realizing when they've lost their edge.

I've said in the past he gets a pass for one GOD AWFUL season. Last year we all sucked, so it's not just him. If he's awful this year, he gets the whole year to do a goodbye tour and that's it.

 

we knew we were in trouble short term when kovy bolted, but long term its good

zach was a tough deal keep him for a SC run or sell  we went for the run

 

like others the thing which totally pisses me off is the matteau pick, why not give it back there??? stupid!

 

the signing this year are what they are, a mad scramble to feild a team and try and get some goals anyway he could

 

they certainly arent Devil style role models.

btw,  brunner has fallen off the corsi cliff the last 7 of 8 games. he's teddy-like defensively now.

Brunner has looked like garbage lately. Hasn't been able to control the puck on his stick, terrible on the forecheck, looks lost on defense.


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#33 The 29th Pick

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:27 PM

I've heard the new owners have already cleaned house twice in Philly with the Sixers management.....so it looks like they're all business and don't care much for excuses


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#34 lazer

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:36 PM

sixers?


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#35 Triumph

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

The scoring sucks, the goaltending sucks, but you know what hasn't been bad yet?  The defense.  You just fix one of the other two and you've got a team that's going to win more games than it loses.  

 

The thing about the Devils' UFA signings this year is that one of them lasts more than 3 years.  Now it's obviously the worst one and that's too bad, but if these are mistakes, they're theoretically fixable mistakes.


Edited by Triumph, 04 November 2013 - 03:15 PM.

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#36 coldply123

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:19 PM

The scoring sucks, the goaltending sucks, but you know what hasn't been bad yet? The defense. You just fix one of the other two and you've got a team that's going to win more games than it loses.

The thing about the Devils' UFA signings this year is that one of them lasts more than 3 years. Now it's obviously the worst one and that's too bad, but if these are mistakes, they're theoretically fixable mistakes.


I think the argument is that the person making these mistakes should not be the one fixing them as the mistakes have become more pronounced and increasing in volume for nearly a decade now.
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#37 dmann422

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:20 PM

The scoring sucks, the goaltending sucks, but you know what hasn't been bad yet? The defense. You just fix one of the other two and you've got a team that's going to win more games than it loses.

The thing about the Devils' UFA signings this year is that one of them lasts more than 3 years. Now it's obviously the worst one and that's too bad, but if these are mistakes, they're theoretically fixable mistakes.

stop being so rational, people around here want to scream and throw their arms up in the air because this team is doomed for the next 5 years!

Edited by dmann422, 04 November 2013 - 03:21 PM.

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#38 dmann422

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:22 PM

I think the argument is that the person making these mistakes should not be the one fixing them as the mistakes have become more pronounced and increasing in volume for nearly a decade now.

please name more than 5 gms who over the past decade have done better than Lou.

And I want ones that didn't need to tank in consecutive years to get elite talent.
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#39 Mitico12

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:24 PM

I've heard the new owners have already cleaned house twice in Philly with the Sixers management.....so it looks like they're all business and don't care much for excuses

 

Yep.  Look where that's landed them...the sixers are an abomination (to say the least).


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#40 Triumph

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:27 PM

I think the argument is that the person making these mistakes should not be the one fixing them as the mistakes have become more pronounced and increasing in volume for nearly a decade now.

 

The places where teams make catastrophic errors are typically in trade and free agency.  Lou hasn't gotten significantly beaten in trade in a long time.  He's made errors in free agency but everyone makes mistakes there.  The drafting hasn't been great, but I wouldn't call it poor either.


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