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#41 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:28 AM

Well Colo i won't get in another debate with you but i'll just say that once again you're wrong about what you "assume" im thinking. Absolutely ridiculous to say that i expect Lou to be 100% perfect all the time, absolutely ridiculous. I never ever even mentioned anything close to that. 

 

as for the whole contract thing i was again talking general about some quotes from guys here about guys or teams all around the league. Not saying i dont agree, i didnt like Kovy's contract and i wouldnt want Zach contract either, but i don't put extra gravy saying it was the worst thing in the world either and that we're better off now with a bunch of plugs, how can anyone in their right mind say that we're a better team without Zach and Kovy. Thats what im talking about. The mentality of "im better off living on the street with only my clothes and toothbrush than overpaying a little for a good apartment. Some are exaggerating. There's a fine line but there's a difference in (for example) the Leafs overpaying for a guy like Clarkson when their team we're pretty fine without it) than overpaying for a guy who would be "your guy".

 

Plus bunch of teams that guys around here we're saying we're doomed are all fine now that they can use their buyouts to get rid of those contracts. There's always problems that you can try to get the best out in the present and deal with the problems in the future if you're lucky. Of course teams like Philly will never have a clue and they are indeed doomed. 


Edited by SterioDesign, 14 November 2013 - 09:04 AM.

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#42 Triumph

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:39 AM

Because Kovalchuk was paid $11M a year.  If money is no object to the Devils, you're right, they're better off with Kovalchuk.  If the Devils have a budget, they're not, because there's just no way Kovalchuk was worth $11M to a team limited to spending, say, $65M.  Basically pick 3 of Jagr, Brunner, Zidlicky, Ryder, Clowe - that's what the Devils would've been paying to Kovalchuk.


Edited by Triumph, 14 November 2013 - 10:40 AM.

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#43 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:20 AM

Because Kovalchuk was paid $11M a year.  If money is no object to the Devils, you're right, they're better off with Kovalchuk.  If the Devils have a budget, they're not, because there's just no way Kovalchuk was worth $11M to a team limited to spending, say, $65M.  Basically pick 3 of Jagr, Brunner, Zidlicky, Ryder, Clowe - that's what the Devils would've been paying to Kovalchuk.

 

Thats true but you have to look at it as a whole and the structure of your team. I'm gonna talk general here, i feel some teams can live through an overpaid player in his big salary years or even if you want to see it has his cap hit value IF you have some good "deals" on the team that is "money wize" compensating. Like Sykora at 650k scoring 21 goals or a young superstar producing but still getting entry level contract money or guys popping out of the blues producing or playing big minutes. 

 

The Pens for example are able to survive with or without Malkin and Crosby (and their contracts) cause they have a bunch of "deals" on the team at this moment.

 

Of course it's not ideal and you don't want bad contracts but again it's not as deadly as some are making it to be sometimes. There's ways around it.


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#44 mouse

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:49 AM

 

as for the whole contract thing i was again talking general about some quotes from guys here about guys or teams all around the league. Not saying i dont agree, i didnt like Kovy's contract and i wouldnt want Zach contract either, but i don't put extra gravy saying it was the worst thing in the world either and that we're better off now with a bunch of plugs, how can anyone in their right mind say that we're a better team without Zach and Kovy. Thats what im talking about. The mentality of "im better off living on the street with only my clothes and toothbrush than overpaying a little for a good apartment. Some are exaggerating. There's a fine line but there's a difference in (for example) the Leafs overpaying for a guy like Clarkson when their team we're pretty fine without it) than overpaying for a guy who would be "your guy".

 

 

But signing Clarkson, Parise, or Kovalcuk at the rate they were/are paid is like buying a place in Trump Towers, only to be broke with a toothbrush in 5 or 10 years when you could suck it up and get a place on a safe block in Harlem. Sure, it's not as good. Less parking, less public transportation, smaller place, but in 10 years, you'll at least still have that, and if you're lucky and smart, you might even have a nice place in the Village because you were able to save a little money.


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#45 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:13 PM

But signing Clarkson, Parise, or Kovalcuk at the rate they were/are paid is like buying a place in Trump Towers, only to be broke with a toothbrush in 5 or 10 years when you could suck it up and get a place on a safe block in Harlem. Sure, it's not as good. Less parking, less public transportation, smaller place, but in 10 years, you'll at least still have that, and if you're lucky and smart, you might even have a nice place in the Village because you were able to save a little money.

 

You don't win cup living in Harlem though lol but again i was talking general, there's no way i'd want those 3 contracts now. 


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#46 2ELIAS6

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:15 PM

You don't win cup living in Harlem though lol but again i was talking general, there's no way i'd want those 3 contracts now.

out of all 3 of those contracts o really wish something would've worked ot with parise but on the back of his kind I think he was planning on dogging is all along
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#47 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:31 PM

out of all 3 of those contracts o really wish something would've worked ot with parise but on the back of his kind I think he was planning on dogging is all along

 

I dont think it was his plan all along, must have been in the back of his mind but i really think he wanted to stay in NJ, why would he ask Sutter to sign in NJ if he wanted to leave?

 

He said himself in an interview 2 years before that if a free agent gets to 1 month or wtv before free agency, why not wait to see whats out there? And well we gave him exactly that opportunity.


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#48 Triumph

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:40 PM

Thats true but you have to look at it as a whole and the structure of your team. I'm gonna talk general here, i feel some teams can live through an overpaid player in his big salary years or even if you want to see it has his cap hit value IF you have some good "deals" on the team that is "money wize" compensating. Like Sykora at 650k scoring 21 goals or a young superstar producing but still getting entry level contract money or guys popping out of the blues producing or playing big minutes. 

 

The Pens for example are able to survive with or without Malkin and Crosby (and their contracts) cause they have a bunch of "deals" on the team at this moment.

 

Of course it's not ideal and you don't want bad contracts but again it's not as deadly as some are making it to be sometimes. There's ways around it.

 

The Penguins would be a good team without Malkin, but they'd be in trouble without Crosby - Crosby is far and away the best player in the league.  Regardless, those contracts are much much much better than Ilya Kovalchuk's contract, because Ilya Kovalchuk was not as good or close to as good as those players.  The issue is with Kovalchuk's 'stardom' - somehow he is this giant star who is unable to produce even close to the numbers of star players 2 of the 3 years he was here.

 

The Devils' top scorer makes $2M on the cap this year and his bonuses may run the Devils over the cap.  Their top scoring defenseman is being paid $3M, and is in the same spot.  They've got Gelinas who is producing a ridiculous shot rate early on, he's providing a ton of value.  Larsson is too.  Reid Boucher is in the minors putting up great shot stats, he should be in the NHL next year, along with Gelinas on a cheap contract, perhaps Merrill as well.  The Devils have some entry-level bargains coming.  It's much much easier to build a team when your superstar player that you picked 1st overall has a dumb fixation with his birthdate that translates to a favorable cap hit.


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#49 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:26 PM

The Penguins would be a good team without Malkin, but they'd be in trouble without Crosby - Crosby is far and away the best player in the league.  Regardless, those contracts are much much much better than Ilya Kovalchuk's contract, because Ilya Kovalchuk was not as good or close to as good as those players.  The issue is with Kovalchuk's 'stardom' - somehow he is this giant star who is unable to produce even close to the numbers of star players 2 of the 3 years he was here.

 

The Devils' top scorer makes $2M on the cap this year and his bonuses may run the Devils over the cap.  Their top scoring defenseman is being paid $3M, and is in the same spot.  They've got Gelinas who is producing a ridiculous shot rate early on, he's providing a ton of value.  Larsson is too.  Reid Boucher is in the minors putting up great shot stats, he should be in the NHL next year, along with Gelinas on a cheap contract, perhaps Merrill as well.  The Devils have some entry-level bargains coming.  It's much much easier to build a team when your superstar player that you picked 1st overall has a dumb fixation with his birthdate that translates to a favorable cap hit.

 

i somewhat agree that Malkin is better but is he "2millions per year better"? not sure.

 

And Crosby who may be a hit away from being a catastrophe and i mean, i remember you saying that it was fine not to re-sign zach long term the first summer was that he was just coming back from a knee injury and that it was too risky. But Crosby's concussion problem is not to worry going forward?


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#50 ATLL765

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:54 PM

i somewhat agree that Malkin is better but is he "2millions per year better"? not sure.

 

And Crosby who may be a hit away from being a catastrophe and i mean, i remember you saying that it was fine not to re-sign zach long term the first summer was that he was just coming back from a knee injury and that it was too risky. But Crosby's concussion problem is not to worry going forward?

Of course it is, but he's so fvcking good that you take that risk. And plus, you'd think if teams insure contracts, that's gotta be one the Pens insured.

And the reason why the Pens have guys on "deals" as you put it, is because Crosby and Malkin can make guys like Dupuis better. Same with Kunitz. These guys are like Sykora and Clarkson were for us, in that they would not have had nearly the success they did had it not been for another player giving them the time, space and excellent passes to put up points.


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#51 Onddeck

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:04 PM

Kovalpuke is such a lame title to this thread. . Lol, so original
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#52 2ELIAS6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:11 PM

I dont think it was his plan all along, must have been in the back of his mind but i really think he wanted to stay in NJ, why would he ask Sutter to sign in NJ if he wanted to leave?
 
He said himself in an interview 2 years before that if a free agent gets to 1 month or wtv before free agency, why not wait to see whats out there? And well we gave him exactly that opportunity.

i feel like we shouldve really made an exception for him though and he should have been locked up well before his contract was up.. but oh well its all in the past now no sense in crying about it
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#53 NJDevs4978

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:15 PM

sundstrom claimed there was such an offer and Parise's reps turned it down.  The Devils probably didn't have the money at that point to make a 'real' offer and the agents knew that.  Just because Lou has a policy doesn't mean he won't make exceptions (the way he did with Marty).


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#54 2ELIAS6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:18 PM

sundstrom claimed there was such an offer and Parise's reps turned it down.  The Devils probably didn't have the money at that point to make a 'real' offer and the agents knew that.  Just because Lou has a policy doesn't mean he won't make exceptions (the way he did with Marty).

hopefully from here on out now that we have owners that arent broke we will have a little more money to throw around .. in the back of most of their heads that had to have been a little bit of a concern the financial situation of the team
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#55 dmann422

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:19 PM

Kovy leaving IMO was a huge mix a many many many things. Could be all small things that kept on adding up but i think thats what it is.

- The lockout is the main reason, he pretty much said fvck You NHL. Few top russians had a pact of staying in russia for good if the lockout would have continued a few more weeks.

- I could be wrong but him not getting the C in NJ might have stung him a little.

- Playing in a very strict system where some of his offensive abilities we're restrained. (personally i think he was perfectly fine with it AS LONG we we're successful and winning, some kind of creative/freedom sacrifice for success. We know Russians like to do their dekes and carrying the puck all the time). Dumb reason or not, that kind of player like to do "his things". I still think he was a great teammates though.

- Getting more money in Russia

- Seeing what it was to play in Russia during the lockout and being THE face of the league, he was not even invited to the all stars games anymore in the NHL. He was a GOD in russia. Playing in front of his family and all

- Maybe the timing of the Sochi games and him making a statement that his country was the most important thing to him (he'll be captain of the team there's no way around it)

- fvck him

Bottom line i think he mostly said. fvck you NHL and not fvck You NJ.


I guess i'll specify that all those small reasons may be a very small % or not be a reason at all, its all speculations. Don't jump on me for a specific one as if im saying thats the one and only reason.

out of all of this there is really only one thing that holds any importance and you devoted one sentence to it. He's getting paid more.

Combine that with the fact that he's getting paid more to be HOME as opposed to halfway across the world and I don't blame him for leaving.
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#56 95Crash

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:18 PM

Chico makes it seem like getting Suter to go to Minny strongly factored into Parise leaving N.J.

 

And even though they had some success together, I always thought that Kovy and Zach just didn't mesh well -- either personally or professionally. They seemed to me like oil and water.

 

I have nothing substantial to base that on. It's just what I always thought.


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#57 NJDevs26

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 11:19 PM

Chico makes it seem like getting Suter to go to Minny strongly factored into Parise leaving N.J.

 

And even though they had some success together, I always thought that Kovy and Zach just didn't mesh well -- either personally or professionally. They seemed to me like oil and water.

 

I have nothing substantial to base that on. It's just what I always thought.

 

Kovy had his only real success in NJ with Parise.  Or at least his only success that wasn't low-pressure low-expectation games in the second half of 2011.


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