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Possible New OT rules


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#41 dmann422

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:17 PM

My hope is that the SO disappears. So I put that into my fantasy. If they did a resurface before the OT, maybe they could get away with not doing one before the SO. Probably not though.



A tie is a result though. Is the SO really that important to you that without seeing one, a game could go from quality entertainment to waste of money?

meh, tbh I'm just playing a bit of devils advocate here. I'll still be a fan and watch every devils game no matter what.

But to me there is something of value in leaving with a result. I was against the SO when it was started I thought it was a gimmick (and it still is) but I do like the fact that the game ends in something other than a tie. If a tie wasn't a bad thing why play overtime at all? Why not just stop after 60?
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#42 ATLL765

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:21 PM

meh, tbh I'm just playing a bit of devils advocate here. I'll still be a fan and watch every devils game no matter what.

But to me there is something of value in leaving with a result. I was against the SO when it was started I thought it was a gimmick (and it still is) but I do like the fact that the game ends in something other than a tie. If a tie wasn't a bad thing why play overtime at all? Why not just stop after 60?

All the major sports have some sort of OT format. Football, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, Hockey all have extra time given if the game is tied after 60 mins.


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#43 dmann422

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:21 PM

I think if they went to ten-minute overtimes, they would have to do an ice cut beforehand. Thirty minutes is a long time with no cut, plus I think a fresh surface would lead to more goals because they will be able to skate and pass faster.

this may be a dumb question when it comes to this but is the ice breakdown exponential? Like in that extra 5 mins of playing time where the ice hasn't been resurfaced for 25 mins will it get more choppy than say the first 5 mins after a resurface?
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#44 dmann422

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:34 PM

All the major sports have some sort of OT format. Football, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, Hockey all have extra time given if the game is tied after 60 mins.

exactly. And what do all of those have in common? They never end in a tie (nfl is a slight exception in that they very very rarely have ties... Less than 2 a year throughout the whole league).

Every sport plays until a winner and loser is determined.

I'm not even advocating for a shootout to award he hypothetical 3rd point, I'm just saying to use it as a standings tiebreaker.
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#45 CarterforPresident

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:44 PM

I've seen soccer games end 0-0..most boring thing ever...

exactly. And what do all of those have in common? They never end in a tie (nfl is a slight exception in that they very very rarely have ties... Less than 2 a year throughout the whole league).

Every sport plays until a winner and loser is determined.

I'm not even advocating for a shootout to award he hypothetical 3rd point, I'm just saying to use it as a standings tiebreaker.


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#46 devilsfan26

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:46 PM

this may be a dumb question when it comes to this but is the ice breakdown exponential? Like in that extra 5 mins of playing time where the ice hasn't been resurfaced for 25 mins will it get more choppy than say the first 5 mins after a resurface?

You're asking if the rate at which it gets chewed up increases over time, right?  It's kind of hard to quantify that, but there is a very big difference in ice quality at the end of each period compared to at the start of each period.  After 20 minutes, there's a lot of deep ruts in the ice and a lot of snow built up, both of which slow down the skaters and the puck and sometimes cause weird bounces that break up passing plays. 

 

I think they would have to do an ice cut before overtime if they were to extend it to ten minutes, the ice would be in pretty bad shape by then.  They could lay less water down if necessary to make sure the entire surface is frozen as they drive off the ice.  You might not end up with as good a surface as you would after a normal intermission, but for the purpose of getting the players back on the ice ASAP, it would be good enough, all the snow buildup would be gone and the ruts would be cut out.  If they do this, they could probably get away without doing the dry cut down the middle before the shootout if they wanted to, but that doesn't take very long so I think they would keep that.


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#47 dmann422

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:23 PM

You're asking if the rate at which it gets chewed up increases over time, right? It's kind of hard to quantify that, but there is a very big difference in ice quality at the end of each period compared to at the start of each period. After 20 minutes, there's a lot of deep ruts in the ice and a lot of snow built up, both of which slow down the skaters and the puck and sometimes cause weird bounces that break up passing plays.

I think they would have to do an ice cut before overtime if they were to extend it to ten minutes, the ice would be in pretty bad shape by then. They could lay less water down if necessary to make sure the entire surface is frozen as they drive off the ice. You might not end up with as good a surface as you would after a normal intermission, but for the purpose of getting the players back on the ice ASAP, it would be good enough, all the snow buildup would be gone and the ruts would be cut out. If they do this, they could probably get away without doing the dry cut down the middle before the shootout if they wanted to, but that doesn't take very long so I think they would keep that.

correct, I obviously know ice quality deteriorates over playing time, I'm wondering if the rate at which it deteriorates increases.

So if you play 30 minutes on it without resurfacing (which is only 5 more mins than is played in it now) is that final 5 mins exponentially worse to warrant the need to resurface?
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#48 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:30 PM

I've seen soccer games...most boring thing ever...

 

fixed

 

http://uncyclopedia....com/wiki/Soccer

 

A total of 110 games have been played in the Premier League so far this season, and 13 of them have ended in 0-0 "draws".  Another 25 have ended in 1-0 wins.  Half that league averages 1 goal for per game or less.  Outstanding. 

 

 

correct, I obviously know ice quality deteriorates over playing time, I'm wondering if the rate at which it deteriorates increases.

So if you play 30 minutes on it without resurfacing (which is only 5 more mins than is played in it now) is that final 5 mins exponentially worse to warrant the need to resurface?

 

Prior to the 1910-11 season, the NHA games (precursor to NHL) used to be played in two 30-minute halves.  It was changed to (3) 20 minute periods due to the ice quality being so bad by the end of each half, but I'm sure the technology to make good ice back then was nowhere near what it is now.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 18 November 2013 - 04:31 PM.

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#49 dmann422

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

fixed

http://uncyclopedia....com/wiki/Soccer

A total of 110 games have been played in the Premier League so far this season, and 13 of them have ended in 0-0 "draws". Another 25 have ended in 1-0 wins. Half that league averages 1 goal for per game or less. Outstanding.



Prior to the 1910-11 season, the NHA games (precursor to NHL) used to be played in two 30-minute halves. It was changed to (3) 20 minute periods due to the ice quality being so bad by the end of each half, but I'm sure the technology to make good ice back then was nowhere near what it is now.

interesting... I never really considered how they took care of ice back then. Did people just come on and shave the ice by hand?
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#50 redruM

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:43 PM

All the major sports have some sort of OT format. Football, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, Hockey all have extra time given if the game is tied after 60 mins.

I could be wrong about the MLS, but soccer around the world does not have OT unless you are int he knockout round of a tournament, like the world cup, but round robin play, no OT.


I've seen soccer games end 0-0..most boring thing ever...

Clearly you either donot understand the game or you are wathcing bad teams...

 

my guess is probably both...


Edited by redruM, 18 November 2013 - 04:44 PM.

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#51 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:47 PM

interesting... I never really considered how they took care of ice back then. Did people just come on and shave the ice by hand?

 

I saw an old old OLD video somewhere of basically this process:

 

In 1939, Zamboni created the Iceland Skating Rink in Paramount, California. In order to resurface the skating rink, 3 or 4 workers would have to scrape, wash and squeegee the ice. A thin layer of water would then be added for the fresh ice. This process was extremely time consuming and Zamboni wanted to find a more efficient way to resurface the ice.[

 

 

 

The first one he got to work was built in 1949...not sure when the NHL started to use them. 


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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#52 ATLL765

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:54 PM

I could be wrong about the MLS, but soccer around the world does not have OT unless you are int he knockout round of a tournament, like the world cup, but round robin play, no OT.


Clearly you either donot understand the game or you are wathcing bad teams...

 

my guess is probably both...

I don't keep up on other sports, so I probably just caught a world cup game and assumed all soccer was like that. All the other NA sports leagues have OT though. That I'm pretty sure I got right, lol.


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#53 CarterforPresident

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 05:04 PM

Seattle isn't a bad team. But my opinion the sport in general is nothing compared to football hockey or boxing. Not a soccer dude

I could be wrong about the MLS, but soccer around the world does not have OT unless you are int he knockout round of a tournament, like the world cup, but round robin play, no OT.

Clearly you either donot understand the game or you are wathcing bad teams...

my guess is probably both...


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#54 Mike Brown

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 06:49 PM

Part of the problem with longer OT is the ice doesn't get cut after the 3rd.

 

It only takes 7 minutes to zamboni the ice.  Have a short intermission.  Hockey games are too short to begin with.


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#55 thefiestygoat

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:17 PM

I hate the shootout, the loser point, 4v4 OT, and the idea of extending OT 3v3. I honestly never saw the problem with ties. I wish the system was 2 points for a win, 1 point for a tie, 0 points for any loss. If not that then 3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for a OT win, 1 point for a tie, and 0 points for any loss. I know that's impossible since the new NHL is all about how their must always be a winner/loser. I can dream though.

To be more realistic, I like the idea of 10 minute OT with the long change and a 3-2-1-0 system.


Edited by thefiestygoat, 18 November 2013 - 07:18 PM.

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#56 devilsfan26

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 09:34 PM

correct, I obviously know ice quality deteriorates over playing time, I'm wondering if the rate at which it deteriorates increases.

So if you play 30 minutes on it without resurfacing (which is only 5 more mins than is played in it now) is that final 5 mins exponentially worse to warrant the need to resurface?

It's hard to say if it deteriorates faster, you could probably make a case for either side but there's not really an easy way to measure it.  In my opinion, the 25 minutes of third period plus overtime is pushing it, so I think if overtime is any longer, they should really do a cut.

 

The technology of ice resurfacing is much better than it was in the NHA days, but we also have stronger and faster skaters that turn and stop harder than they did, so the ice takes more of a beating than it did back then too.  At 1:40 of this video you see some guys working on the ice between periods of a game in 1929...


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#57 Mike Brown

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 09:40 PM

They can definitely resurface the ice and still have the ten minute if they want to.  Like I said, it only takes 7 minutes for both zambonis to resurface the ice.


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#58 2ELIAS6

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:24 PM

It only takes 7 minutes to zamboni the ice.  Have a short intermission.  Hockey games are too short to begin with.

i agree with this i often feel like hockey games are a little too short. from start to finish your usually looking at about 2.5 hours..most other sports are longer football/baseball.. i wish the periods were just a little bit longer or something.
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#59 StarDew

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:12 PM

I wish it was the way it used to be.  Tie and there is OT and if no one scores then each team gets a point. Winner gets 2 points and loser gets nothing.  Hell with this  4 on 4 and shootout crap.


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#60 redruM

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:23 AM

Seattle isn't a bad team. But my opinion the sport in general is nothing compared to football hockey or boxing. Not a soccer dude

Depends who you are comparing them to, not sure they could beat anyone in the premier league... and Hockey is great, still my favorite sport to watch, I havenot watched a boxing match in a decade, that sport died along time ago....

 

Problem with soccer is Americans love scoring, not scoring chances, so they donot get soccer, If you watch soccer at the highest level ( lets be honest, most donot want to watch 2 bad football teams either) its a beautiful thing to see.


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