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The Schneider and Marty disparity.


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#21 Onddeck

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

IMO with Schneider in net, the defense can't take as many chances offensively, therefore offensive opportunities suffer.

this is ridiculous. So with Schneider in net we can expect or team to only put up like 5 sog?
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#22 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:19 PM

IMO with Schneider in net, the defense can't take as many chances offensively, therefore offensive opportunities suffer.

 

This is what I'm thinking, as they haven't really built up that trust with Schneider yet and learned to play with his style (and vice versa). I'd like to wait until we have a 40 game sample or so but I wouldn't consider it permanent a problem.

 

It wouldn't be the first time the team has played differently in front of different goaltenders. (the great Clemmensen run comes to mind)


Edited by Devil Dan 56, 22 November 2013 - 01:19 PM.

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#23 Triumph

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:23 PM

It's luck, nothing more.  Goalies don't sustain this throughout their careers.


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#24 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:28 PM

this is ridiculous. So with Schneider in net we can expect or team to only put up like 5 sog?

 

It's not too ridiculous. Marty and Schneider have very different styles and there's a definite adjustment time needed. Hockey is not a plug-and-play sport. It's like a receiver and a quarterback. It takes some time for them to get on the same page and know where to look for each other. Again, I don't think it's a big issue, just some adjustment.

 

Additionally, the forwards may be feeling some more internal pressure to score when Schneider is in net since they haven't done it much. It's like a forward in a scoring slump. Once he realizes he's on it, it gets in his head and it makes it even harder to score. It's just one of those things that will even out in time.


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#25 ATLL765

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:45 PM

It's not too ridiculous. Marty and Schneider have very different styles and there's a definite adjustment time needed. Hockey is not a plug-and-play sport. It's like a receiver and a quarterback. It takes some time for them to get on the same page and know where to look for each other. Again, I don't think it's a big issue, just some adjustment.

 

Additionally, the forwards may be feeling some more internal pressure to score when Schneider is in net since they haven't done it much. It's like a forward in a scoring slump. Once he realizes he's on it, it gets in his head and it makes it even harder to score. It's just one of those things that will even out in time.

It's pretty ridiculous. I don't think these guys let things like that get in their heads like it gets in ours. Especially when the team is winning despite how they looked last night.


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#26 ThreeCups

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 02:51 PM

i think its a coincidence too

 

I think it's been wayyyyy too long to keep calling this a "coincidence".


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#27 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 02:54 PM

I think it's been wayyyyy too long to keep calling this a "coincidence".

 

The season is only a quarter over.  It has not been a long time.  Crazy sh!t can happen over the course of a full season on occasion, but I think this is going to even out as this season goes on.  Hopefully last night was the beginning of that. 


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#28 StormJosh

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:50 PM

It's luck, nothing more.  Goalies don't sustain this throughout their careers.

 

I'm curious if there has been a test for this. Is it possible to look at Marty's Corsi or shots per game (or whatever similar metric) vs. various backup goalie metrics?

 

Edit:

 

Here are the Shorts For/Against % (shots Devils took divded by shots opponents took)

 

Year Marty Backup Diff

2013-14 0.512 0.531 -0.019

2012-13 0.547 0.532 +0.015

2011-12 0.501 0.505 -0.004

2010-11 0.532 0.499 +0.033

2009-10 0.513 0.533 -0.020

2008-09 0.502 0.555 -0.053

 

*Interestingly enough, we seem to be carrying the play more when Schneider is in net, at least as far as shot breakdown goes. When Schneider is playing we average 26 shots on net and 23 against. Compared to Brodeur with 25 shots on net and 24 against. 

 

Note: score effects causing this? Chicken and the egg


Edited by StormJosh, 22 November 2013 - 04:02 PM.

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#29 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:11 PM

It's pretty ridiculous. I don't think these guys let things like that get in their heads like it gets in ours. Especially when the team is winning despite how they looked last night.

 

It definitely gets into their heads. We hear guys in slumps all the time talking about 'squeezing their sticks' or 'being snakebit' and things like that. The winning is good, the locker room is definitely happier as a whole. But when every reporter that walks into the room after a 1-0 loss asks why you can score for one goalie and not the other, it can build a little pressure up to perform. Again, nothing long term. Just a little nuance to that they have to shake off.

 

It's like those too many men penalties we got at the beginning of Lemaire's first season back. Everyone made a big deal out of it, so it became a bigger deal than it was.


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#30 devils102

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

I think everyone's covered all the points I was going to make... but I'll make them anyway! Here are the issues in order of importance:

 

1. Puck handling adjustment - Marty starts the rush going the other way which has an impact on the offence. I feel like there's been some confusion with Cory and the defencemen as to is supposed to do what. It's led to a goal against early in the season and the team being pinned in their own end. Last night this was not an issue that I noticed so hopefully it's getting better.

 

2. Opponents - Pittsburgh, Vancouver twice, Toronto, LA twice... Those are good teams offensively and defensively. 

 

3. Team gripping their sticks - After it became a trend I think the team wanted to score too much and were gripping their sticks.

 

4. Luck - As a lot of people mentioned, luck has no doubt played a factor.


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#31 LucifersDog

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:23 PM

I'll be worried about this when we're 50 games in and things are still this bad. Until then, it's coincidence. Cory was unbelievable last night.

 

'things are still bad" just how bad is being 3rd in the Metro division and being better than 500% after 1/4 of the season?


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#32 ATLL765

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:37 PM

'things are still bad" just how bad is being 3rd in the Metro division and being better than 500% after 1/4 of the season?

I meant as in the disparity of goals, not the overall team play.


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#33 nessus

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:24 PM

I think it's luck, too. I do agree that Marty's stick handling is very helpful, but the team has played well in front of other backup goalies, so they'll start playing better in front of Schneider soon.


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#34 95Crash

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:11 PM

I just think it's awesome the way that these two goalies seem to be pushing each other to higher levels, even if it's happening unconsciously.

 

Obviously Cory will never be able to live up to Marty's career, but perhaps during his time on the bench during Marty's starts in net he is able to learn some things from his future Hall-of-Fame teammate -- some tricks of the trade.

 

And maybe Marty, being the proud professional he always has been throughout his long tenure in the Devils net, is inspired to regain and maintain his high level of play even longer than previously thought due to him watching the new young netminder bringing his A game night in and night out.

 

Who knows how long it lasts, but most recently it sure has been fun to witness.


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#35 Marshall

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:31 AM

 

 

2. Opponents - Pittsburgh, Vancouver twice, Toronto, LA twice... Those are good teams offensively and defensively. 

 

 

 

I think this is it, pretty much. I also don't think it's a coincidence Schneider has gotten the tougher starts.


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#36 Mike Brown

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:53 AM

I think this is it, pretty much. I also don't think it's a coincidence Schneider has gotten the tougher starts.

 

Regardless, I still think the Devils don't play as aggressive of a system with Schneider in net.  They seem to be more tentative.  I do think it'll all even out in the end though.


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#37 2ELIAS6

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 11:00 AM

Regardless, I still think the Devils don't play as aggressive of a system with Schneider in net.  They seem to be more tentative.  I do think it'll all even out in the end though.

it will clearly even out theyre not going to play like crap in front of him every single game for the rest of his contract here.. i think they still have to get use to him as well and how he works and handles the puck.. i bet its just more of a comfort thing.. the guy is a brick wall every night its nothing hes doing wrong.
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#38 Mike Brown

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 11:05 AM

it will clearly even out theyre not going to play like crap in front of him every single game for the rest of his contract here.. i think they still have to get use to him as well and how he works and handles the puck.. i bet its just more of a comfort thing.. the guy is a brick wall every night its nothing hes doing wrong.

 

I just hope Schneider stays with us after next year.  He's already a fan favorite, and if Lou lets him walk, god help us.


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#39 2ELIAS6

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 11:09 AM

I just hope Schneider stays with us after next year.  He's already a fan favorite, and if Lou lets him walk, god help us.

if they dont learn him a little better and start performing for him how they do with marty i honestly think it could be a problem... you know how frustrating that has got to be for this guy.. you almost feel bad
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#40 Devs3cups

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 11:16 AM

I just hope Schneider stays with us after next year. He's already a fan favorite, and if Lou lets him walk, god help us.


I think that if LL gives him the money he deserves, he'll stay. He looks like he's enjoying it, he'll have a secured number 1 spot, NJ will have a solid D (Larsson,Gelly,Merril,Santini etc.) and offense can be worked on in FA or with new prospects. I believe he stays long-term (4-5-6 years) with us.

Edited by Devs3cups, 23 November 2013 - 11:17 AM.

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