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Update: Odjick and Parker Battling Effects of Concussions


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#41 mouse

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:46 PM


If you gave any goon that played in the NHL in the past 15 years the truth serum with a disclosure form that had graphic details of what could happen because of concussions, they would sign on the dotted line without hesitation. I know I would.


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Which is why it may be time for the union or the league to step in. Not to get paternalistic, but there are a ton of 40, 50 year olds with serious health problems who I am sure would rather have made different decisions, and would have signed up when they were younger, even after hearing the risks. We tend to think we're invincible, until we're not, so nobody's going to convince a guy not to make the NHL if he has a chance, even if the risk is terrible.


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#42 CarterforPresident

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:52 AM

Question. Why do these days say stuff when their are suits. Yet when this isn't a conflict they never say anything before hand? And. Another.
Why back then no helmets or nothing and less injuries. Yes the game is faster now but when your practically naked compared to today's game and there is by far less injuries in sports in general wth? Football rule changes haven't made huge differences at all. Same here.
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#43 mouse

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:02 AM

Question. Why do these days say stuff when their are suits. Yet when this isn't a conflict they never say anything before hand? And. Another.Why back then no helmets or nothing and less injuries. Yes the game is faster now but when your practically naked compared to today's game and there is by far less injuries in sports in general wth? Football rule changes haven't made huge differences at all. Same here.

Concussions are caused by the brain hitting the skull, so helmets don't necessarily prevent them, because if the head changes direction fast enough, the brain still hits the skull. Helmets prevent a lot of other types of head injury, but when players are stronger and faster, that does cause impact to be that much harder. Most rule changes can't solve this. I don't deny that a lot of guys are probably speaking up for opportunistic reasons, but there are plenty of guys who have issues who don't speak up (just look at the suicides among NHL and NFL players), and even if some of this is motivated by greed, that doesn't make the complaints any less true. As far as the NHL is concerned, I don't totally side with the players suing -- they had a much better idea what they were getting into than the NFL guys did, since the NHL doesn't seem to have gone as far to convince them they were safe, but I do think the league should be doing what it can to make things safer without fundamentally changing the sport, and I think removing fighting is an easy fix.


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Sumus Legio
You don't turn this around in a couple shifts. Its going to take a little time, but I know the guys will come back. Because I can see it. -- Jacques Lemaire

 

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#44 CarterforPresident

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

Thanks. It seems they say they wanna do what's best for the league and dont make the changes that are needed most. Same with football. Qbs are over protected(different store) head hits,causes players to hit low. That's a whole other relm of dangerous injuries. Consistency with penalities on boarding etc is really needed in these situations but it doesn't happen either. The pads for hockey make half of the injuries. Go back to the old pads. That would be better IMO.

Concussions are caused by the brain hitting the skull, so helmets don't necessarily prevent them, because if the head changes direction fast enough, the brain still hits the skull. Helmets prevent a lot of other types of head injury, but when players are stronger and faster, that does cause impact to be that much harder. Most rule changes can't solve this. I don't deny that a lot of guys are probably speaking up for opportunistic reasons, but there are plenty of guys who have issues who don't speak up (just look at the suicides among NHL and NFL players), and even if some of this is motivated by greed, that doesn't make the complaints any less true. As far as the NHL is concerned, I don't totally side with the players suing -- they had a much better idea what they were getting into than the NFL guys did, since the NHL doesn't seem to have gone as far to convince them they were safe, but I do think the league should be doing what it can to make things safer without fundamentally changing the sport, and I think removing fighting is an easy fix.


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#45 dmann422

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:18 AM

I've avoided this thread like the plague because I know where it'll lead.. But this is a ridiculous example. Prust stood up for a young teammate that got run by a goon.. It wasn't the most entertaining fight but it certainly wasn't staged.

And my only input: if you're going to ban fighting, you might as well ban shot blocking, slapshots, and open ice hitting. Because all lead to concussions, and we'll eventually get to that point someday at this rate.

It's a contact sport, and they're paid hundreds of thousands or even millions to exchange punches. This stuff is tragic, but, in my mind, it's a workplace hazard. You know the risk when you sign that dotted line. Maybe all blue collar retirees should sue former employers for injuries experienced on the job?

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I never said the fight was staged just that it was boring, specifically in response to 7's argument that some fans will go away if fighting is banned.

I have no problem with a teammate sticking up for another player, but let's be honest- the majority of fights these days are draws and not that entertaining. It's not like we're getting UFC quality matches out there.

And fighting is an action that stops the play and flow of a game, it's entirely different from shot blocking, slapshots and hitting, which directly contribute to a team trying to win. As mouse said, fighting largely disappears in the playoffs and I don't hear anyone complain about it.
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#46 ATLL765

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:33 AM

I never said the fight was staged just that it was boring, specifically in response to 7's argument that some fans will go away if fighting is banned.

I have no problem with a teammate sticking up for another player, but let's be honest- the majority of fights these days are draws and not that entertaining. It's not like we're getting UFC quality matches out there.

And fighting is an action that stops the play and flow of a game, it's entirely different from shot blocking, slapshots and hitting, which directly contribute to a team trying to win. As mouse said, fighting largely disappears in the playoffs and I don't hear anyone complain about it.

I'd say it was about as entertaining as two dudes rolling around on the ground, which is basically what every UFC fight I've seen ended up as. BORING.


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#47 dmann422

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:21 PM

I'd say it was about as entertaining as two dudes rolling around on the ground, which is basically what every UFC fight I've seen ended up as. BORING.

tbh I've never seen a UFC fight in my life... Probably a bad example I guess but my point stands that the quality of fights is so often lacking that they're more boring to watch than any actual gameplay...
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#48 ATLL765

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

tbh I've never seen a UFC fight in my life... Probably a bad example I guess but my point stands that the quality of fights is so often lacking that they're more boring to watch than any actual gameplay...

I just wanted to get a dig in at the UFC. I seriously have no idea how anyone finds it entertaining.

I like when guys fight who don't usually fight. Then it's entertaining because they don't spend the whole time avoiding getting hit like the Janssen-Prust fight was. Those guys know if they let the other guy get a clean shot in, it could be lights out. Two non-fighters and there's less strategy, which makes it more exciting to me.


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#49 CarterforPresident

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:10 PM

Attl. Ufc is one of the fastest growing sports in the u.s right now. They dnt get payed like boxers do but it can be entertaining if you want to like it lol
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#50 ATLL765

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:37 PM

Attl. Ufc is one of the fastest growing sports in the u.s right now. They dnt get payed like boxers do but it can be entertaining if you want to like it lol

Oh I know it's popular right now and I've seen several fights. Every single one is a SNORE FEST. I don't want to see some dude getting bludgeoned by another guy's fists while he's pinned on the ground, it's beyond boring. I would much rather watch boxing, which even can get a bit boring depending on the fighters.


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#51 CarterforPresident

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:21 PM

Ppl want to see bludgeoned though. Boxing isnt a slugfest yet thats the entertainment. Ppl like say rigo in boxing is boring but pure skills and what the sport is. Ppl want that brawl. Half the reason why ufc is so popular.
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#52 Sarge18

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:53 PM

The events of last night in Boston make a good case to bring this back up.

 

http://www.youtube.c...Ez9p8-L3s#t=154

 

What in the world is Thornton doing?  So now we have a player leaving the game on a stretcher because of the ridiculous notion of frontier justice that goes around in the league.

 

I know the history from last years playoffs, and this game was down and dirty with four guys leaving the game due to injury.    But seriously why does Orpik, a guy who doesnt really fight have to answer the bell to Thornton, the B's enforcer?  Its a pretty big mismatch, and what does it solve?  Makes Thornton feel better?  Is any sort of justice being served?  Lets see how he feels when what should be a 10+ game suspension is handed out.


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"Jay Pandolfo's last game at Boston University was against the Wolverines," Madden said. "My job was to cover his line. Jay had scored something like 30 goals in 30 games that season. And that was his 31st game. Guess what happened?"

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#53 dmann422

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 03:37 PM

The events of last night in Boston make a good case to bring this back up.

http://www.youtube.c...Ez9p8-L3s#t=154

What in the world is Thornton doing? So now we have a player leaving the game on a stretcher because of the ridiculous notion of frontier justice that goes around in the league.

I know the history from last years playoffs, and this game was down and dirty with four guys leaving the game due to injury. But seriously why does Orpik, a guy who doesnt really fight have to answer the bell to Thornton, the B's enforcer? Its a pretty big mismatch, and what does it solve? Makes Thornton feel better? Is any sort of justice being served? Lets see how he feels when what should be a 10+ game suspension is handed out.

it's even more ridiculous when you consider orpik's hit on Eriksson was completely clean. Thornton just had it in his head it wasn't and decided to take things into his own hands.

If orpik is out for an extended period I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 20+ game suspension.
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#54 mouse

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:08 PM

it's even more ridiculous when you consider orpik's hit on Eriksson was completely clean. Thornton just had it in his head it wasn't and decided to take things into his own hands.

If orpik is out for an extended period I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 20+ game suspension.

That's the real problem. If fighting's still part of the game, guys should answer the call after dirty hits, but an idiot like Thornton goes into the game waiting for a reason to fight, and Orpik can't make a clean hit without consequences.


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Sumus Legio
You don't turn this around in a couple shifts. Its going to take a little time, but I know the guys will come back. Because I can see it. -- Jacques Lemaire

 

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#55 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:43 PM

I just wanted to get a dig in at the UFC. I seriously have no idea how anyone finds it entertaining.

I like when guys fight who don't usually fight. Then it's entertaining because they don't spend the whole time avoiding getting hit like the Janssen-Prust fight was. Those guys know if they let the other guy get a clean shot in, it could be lights out. Two non-fighters and there's less strategy, which makes it more exciting to me.

 

 

Ppl want to see bludgeoned though. Boxing isnt a slugfest yet thats the entertainment. Ppl like say rigo in boxing is boring but pure skills and what the sport is. Ppl want that brawl. Half the reason why ufc is so popular.

 

 

Not to go off-topic, but the 4th and 5th rounds of the Silva-Hunt fight the other night were why people watch UFC. Just an absolute slugfest. I just had to mention it since my room mate watched it today and I was shocked at how those 2 guys fought. 


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