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Leafs fans bailing on Clarky already


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#21 SterioDesign

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:48 AM

In fairness, the guys on that list really didn't perform that badly (not at first, anyway), and Parise is putting up Parise-like numbers in Minnesota (still vastly overpriced though).  Holik and Gomez actually performed at the level they should've been expected to as Rangers, but Sather is one of those idiots who thinks paying guys like superstars and bringing them to Broadway is somehow going to make them exponentially better than they really are, and the idiot Ranger fans bought into that as well.  Gionta was overpaid, but definitely not to the silly level that Holik and Gomez were, and to his credit, he did score 57 goals in his first two Canadien seasons...and is their captain to boot. 

 

Parise seems overpriced now cause most people are comparing with older contracts with lower cap hit because of frontloaded structure and we're used to "this amount of money = top player, but its a new reality now. In the new CBA Zach has a pretty good cap hit. Look what Perry and Getzlaf got cap will go higher and salaries will raise too and adjust.

 

When he was still a Devils all we were hearing here is that he was a top 10 player in the league, underrated etc etc now he's not even top 10 in cap hit and he's overpaid. Wut.


Edited by SterioDesign, 06 December 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#22 Triumph

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:52 AM

Parise seems overpriced now cause most people are comparing with older contracts with lower cap hit because of frontloaded structure and we're used to "this amount of money = top player, but its a new reality now. In the new CBA Zach has a pretty good cap hit. Look what Perry and Getzlaf got cap will go higher and salaries will raise too and adjust.

 

You have to factor in the CBRF - when Zach retires, the Wild will still be paying for him.  That is not the case with Getzlaf and Perry.

 

Of course Parise is worth his cap hit now - only the worst deals aren't worth it right away.  That's the idea.  You sign a guy for big money and he is great right away and then you hope he keeps it up.


Edited by Triumph, 06 December 2013 - 10:53 AM.

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#23 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:02 AM

You have to factor in the CBRF - when Zach retires, the Wild will still be paying for him.  That is not the case with Getzlaf and Perry.

 

Of course Parise is worth his cap hit now - only the worst deals aren't worth it right away.  That's the idea.  You sign a guy for big money and he is great right away and then you hope he keeps it up.

 

Yep, this.  No one really thought Zach was going to go to Minnesota and suck right off the bat (and if they did, it was because such fans were pissed off about him leaving more than anything else), and he hasn't...he's performing to a very Zach-like level, and that was to be expected.  It's what he does in the later years.   


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#24 Daniel

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:11 AM

In fairness, the guys on that list really didn't perform that badly (not at first, anyway), and Parise is putting up Parise-like numbers in Minnesota (still vastly overpriced though).  Holik and Gomez actually performed at the level they should've been expected to as Rangers, but Sather is one of those idiots who thinks paying guys like superstars and bringing them to Broadway is somehow going to make them exponentially better than they really are, and the idiot Ranger fans bought into that as well.  Gionta was overpaid, but definitely not to the silly level that Holik and Gomez were, and to his credit, he did score 57 goals in his first two Canadien seasons...and is their captain to boot. 

 

Not to mention that Sather managed to flip Gomez for one of the best defensemen in the league.  So far as the Rangers' signing of Holik, he could have done absolutely nothing and it wouldn't have really mattered since there wasn't a salary cap back then. 

 

All things considered, Sather hasn't really been that bad for the Rangers.  His biggest blunders were in the draft while he was still in control of it -- some time ago, I'm not sure when, he effectively ceded control of the draft to the scouts. 


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#25 SterioDesign

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:13 AM

You have to factor in the CBRF - when Zach retires, the Wild will still be paying for him.  That is not the case with Getzlaf and Perry.

 

Of course Parise is worth his cap hit now - only the worst deals aren't worth it right away.  That's the idea.  You sign a guy for big money and he is great right away and then you hope he keeps it up.

 

Yup of course but that's really a "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it" situation. But look at all the teams we thought would be fvcked long term and this buyout thing came out of nowhere and boom, they we're free. Not impossible that in 6-7 years that they won't be able to get away with it too somehow. We got away with Kovalchuk too. There's ways. Gomez got the Rangers freaking McDonagh! 

 

So the point is, no one want to overpay players of course but do you want to put yourself in trouble right away in the present not signing a players scared of what will happen in 8 years?

 

Cause right now thats what the board looks like "We can't fvcking buy a damn goal and it's looking pretty bad for the next few years... but heyyyy we're not overpaying a player that could actually do it, all good."

 

of course im not saying a team should overpay players and ignore that. But it's a gamble for sure. But look at us right now, like... sweet we don't have long term bad contracts. But we also have no one to fill the arena and no one to score goals on a regular basis... Whats better? Not having top players is really hurting the team on the ice and for a marketing point of view too. 

 

Personally i'd take a Zach at 7.5m right now putting points and leadership and thinking that in 8 years the cap could be at 100 000m and that it would be a problem at all if the finances are there


Edited by SterioDesign, 06 December 2013 - 11:20 AM.

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#26 Daniel

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

Yep, this.  No one really thought Zach was going to go to Minnesota and suck right off the bat (and if they did, it was because such fans were pissed off about him leaving more than anything else), and he hasn't...he's performing to a very Zach-like level, and that was to be expected.  It's what he does in the later years.   

 

And of course, the Wild are banking on the cap being in the $100 million range when cap recapture might become an issue.  And he'll be 40 when the contract is up.  It isn't that inconceivable that he'll still be a decent enough NHLer by then. 


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#27 Triumph

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:15 AM

Yup of course but that's really a "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it" situation. But look at all the teams we thought would be fvcked long term and this buyout thing came out of nowhere and boom, they we're free. Not impossible that in 6-7 years that they won't be able to get away with it too somehow. We got away with Kovalchuk too. There's ways. Gomez got the Rangers freaking McDonagh! 

 

So the point is, no one want to overpay players of course but do you want to put yourself in trouble right away in the present not signing a player scared of what will happen in 8 years? 

 

of course im not saying a team should overpay players and ignore that. But it's a gamble for sure. But look at us right now, like... sweet we don't have long term bad contracts. But we also have no one to fill the arena and no one to score goals on a regular basis... Whats better? Not having top players is really hurting the team on the ice and for a marketing point of view too. 

 

Holy sh!t dude I wasn't making that argument at all.  I'm just saying what happens with long-term contracts.  The CRBF is happening no matter what.


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#28 SterioDesign

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:34 AM

Holy sh!t dude I wasn't making that argument at all.  I'm just saying what happens with long-term contracts.  The CRBF is happening no matter what.

 

Not cause i brought up a few points that i thought you we're arguing. Just keeping the discussion going.


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#29 Legion15

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:18 PM

it's what happens when they over-promote a new player. They make him look like a hockey god and the messiah the team is looking for and the fans buy into it. Then of course they're let down if he has a bad streak...


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#30 Marshall

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:47 PM

There are things to be worried about in a few years...and cap recapture is very much a thing to be worried about if you're a team like Chicago.


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#31 dmann422

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:58 PM

There are things to be worried about in a few years...and cap recapture is very much a thing to be worried about if you're a team like Chicago.

it really depends on league revenues. If the cap continues to rise as expected perhaps these recapture penalties won't be as bad as they were intended to be.

Edited by dmann422, 06 December 2013 - 12:59 PM.

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#32 Triumph

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:10 PM

it really depends on league revenues. If the cap continues to rise as expected perhaps these recapture penalties won't be as bad as they were intended to be.

 

They're not penalties.  It is merely balancing the books.  If you pay a player $100M in 10 years and only pay $80M on the cap, you owe $20M more in fake money to make up the difference.  Otherwise because of how the NHL salary system works, you are taking money out of every other player's pocket to pay that one guy.


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#33 dmann422

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:54 PM

They're not penalties. It is merely balancing the books. If you pay a player $100M in 10 years and only pay $80M on the cap, you owe $20M more in fake money to make up the difference. Otherwise because of how the NHL salary system works, you are taking money out of every other player's pocket to pay that one guy.

lol I understand the purpose of the recapture... You're arguing semantics so it's not that big of a deal but even cap geek uses the term "penalty". My mistake though.

Nevertheless the recapture on some of these contracts may be large but not disproportionate to the cap increase in the coming years. Take parise- if he retires in 2022 before his salary takes a dive the recapture penalty is 6.2 mil for 2 years... That may be the going rate for a good third liner by then.

Of course if he gets injured before then or his play drops off a cliff then that's another story.
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#34 Bartholomew Hunt

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:14 PM

.....why because some idiot on a hockey forum wants to trade him? A handful of people on an online forum doesnt mean the entire fanbase has given up on the guy. Jesus...youre like the mainstream media giving stories false names with little info to back it up.
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#35 cgb6397

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:52 AM

Hahaha the forward version of Kommisarek is the perfect way to describe Clarky. At least those stupid fans realize early that it was a terrible contract.

And how can we be feeling such hostility towards Clowe? He hasn't been playing which, yeah, is frustrating, but he hasn't played enough Devils hockey for us to decide if it's a good fit. As for me, I'm holding out hope, he's a guaranteed physical presence at the very least.
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#36 2ELIAS6

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:10 AM

Hahaha the forward version of Kommisarek is the perfect way to describe Clarky. At least those stupid fans realize early that it was a terrible contract.
And how can we be feeling such hostility towards Clowe? He hasn't been playing which, yeah, is frustrating, but he hasn't played enough Devils hockey for us to decide if it's a good fit. As for me, I'm holding out hope, he's a guaranteed physical presence at the very least.

i think with clowe the problem is the team needs him as a top 6 guy more then ever right now with half of our roster being ahl players theres no surprise why we are falling behind now.. we need him healthy especially with all of the injuries right now.. and his health is a big concern obviously
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#37 devils102

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:13 AM

I think Clarkson brings some intangibles to Toronto that make him worth more money there than anywhere else.

 

Being a hometown kid who went undrafted and still made it, he is a good story for the team to sell. He is also very good with the media on a team that doesn't have anyone like that. 

 

The Leafs are the most popular team in Canada, but they also attract a lot of negative media attention here because of their lack of success and the perception that ownership is more interested in making money than winning.

 

If Clarkson performs decently throughout the majority of his contract (which he isn't right now) I think the team can live with spending the money they did on a decent player who can generate some good PR and excitement.

 

Of course winning the cup would be the best PR for the team, and Clarkson's contract actually makes that harder to do. But it's easier to buy good PR than a Stanley Cup.


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#38 Baggy Spandex

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:05 PM

But it's easier to buy good PR than a Stanley Cup.

 

See : NY Rangers 


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#39 Mike Brown

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:32 PM

See : NY Rangers 

 

It's still amazing how many free agent signings ended up being failures for them.


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#40 GoArmySports

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:13 PM

Clarkson has two goals on the season and now two suspensions!


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