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GDT: NJ Devils @ Blue Jackets - 7pm


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#221 Marshall

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:34 AM

The next guy is gonna be just as deferential to Brodeur as DeBoer is.

 

I know. Which is why I'm close but not on it. The way this team plays, handles its roster and chooses its lineup is just nauseating.


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#222 Mike Brown

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:56 AM

I love the way this team plays under Deboer.  I hate his lineup decisions though.  And the Devils have issues with hanging onto leads.  I know blowing leads sucks and all, but I actually think too much is made of it.  One of the worst 3rd period teams last year made it to the SCF.  Granted, their inability to hold a 3rd period lead ultimately cost them the Cup in game 6 last year.  Yes I am talking about the Bruins.  They were terrible at holding leads last year, and were awful in 3rd periods.

 

His strong points outweigh his negative points overall.  Ultimately, the most important positive point is that his players believe in his system, and play hard for him.  You can't ask for much more from your coach.


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#223 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:29 AM

The next guy is gonna be just as deferential to Brodeur as DeBoer is.

 

What's really odd about DeBoer being deferential to Brodeur is that he really has no reason to be.  I could almost understand if DeBoer had been here several years, and had seen Marty in his prime, and had built up a long-time kinship and loyalty to him.  But all DeBoer's worked with is the Marty of 2011-12 and beyond, and save for the 50-game stretch of good play in 2011-12 and the occasional limited hot streaks, Marty has been pretty bad...there's just no nice way to put it.  What does Pete think, that Marty has another prolonged stretch of very good goaltending in him?  Even if Marty is only technically a year-an-a-half removed from his '11-'12 run, it's not like he was just-turned-30 then and is only 31 now.  There is absolutely NO guarantee that Marty will ever be consistently good anymore, and if Pete is doing his homework and paying attention, he'll see that this started in 2010-11, so it's not like this is anything new.  This is now a multi-season sample, where for over half of it, Marty has been one of the worst puck-stoppers in the league.  Like I've pointed out, yes, he also has had extended stretches of terrific play in 2010-11 and 2011-12, but does Pete honestly believe that Marty, at 41 and with more miles on his odometer than any NHL goalie ever, will do it again?  And is it really necessary to try to find out at the expense of the guy that cost the Devils a first-round pick and who is indisputably the BETTER player?!

 

What's doubly aggravating about this is that the Devils witnessed first-hand, with Messier, exactly what can happen when a faded great's exit is not handled correctly.  Marty is on the last year of a lifetime achievement deal that everyone involved knew he wouldn't live up to from a value standpoint, but everyone also thought he deserved simply because of all he had given to the Devils throughout his career.  The Devils brought in someone not only better at this stage of Marty's career, but a guy who clearly is supposed to figure into the Devils' long-term plans, possibly for a decade if he sticks around.  Why the hell has Marty started 18 games and Cory 14?  And why the hell isn't DeBoer grilled on this point, because I for one want to hear the answer.  If he doesn't trust Cory for whatever the reasons, how the hell can he trust Marty?  Marty put up an .871 save% in his first five games (1-2-2 record), and now has an .864 save% in his last seven (2-5-0 record).  Cory hasn't had a stretch of futility anywhere NEAR as bad as these, but apparently two meh starts is enough for Cory to lose starts in Peteyland.

 

I can handle the team not making the playoffs if they're out there losing with their best, and we all knew this team had question marks coming in, but right now it feels like DeBoer is almost willing to punt a season in deference to Marty, and I don't get it one bit.  And I don't blame Marty one bit for this.  DeBoer is the coach.  DeBoer has given a player who is younger and better, and is playing like it.  It's on DeBoer to do the right thing, and play the friggin' guy who gives him and his team the BEST fvckING CHANCE TO WIN THE DAMNED GAME!  God-damn...   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 11 December 2013 - 07:34 AM.

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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#224 NJDevs4978

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:54 AM

Tri was getting at the whole deferential to Marty thing is more on Lou/Marty.  Or at least it seem as if they always control his playing time over the coach.  Plus at this point with Pete's job on the line he doesn't want to risk ticking off the franchise icon in Marty anyway.

 

But Pete's also the one who put the fourth line on the ice in the final two minutes of a tie division game, also the one who failed to call timeout last night at any point during Columbus' run and this team has blown leads consistently under Pete.


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#225 SterioDesign

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:58 AM

I feel the same as everyone, but really Pete and Lou's absolute stubbornness to just stick with what they believe, that it makes sense or not and STICKING to it no matter the situation is and wtv the results are is beyond frustrating when you clearly see as a nobody sitting in his living room that it's OBVIOUSLY not the right decisions and then you're proven right. 

 

I don't want Pete fired, what i hate about him seems to be SO SIMPLE to fix. 

 

Also i dont think that the problem is about Brodeur's situation. It sticks out more now because of the games he's losing but he's doing it all over the roster its not a goalie only thing. He's doing it all year long sitting rookies for fvck all and playing vets like they never make mistakes. Thats the whole problem it's not about Lou/Marty and wtv. And we heard the same thing in Florida before he comes in. Seems to be extremely frustrating to be playing under vets with DeBoer.

 

 

on a side note about the game... it fvcking sucks when a guy scores 2 and we dont win (without even getting a damn point), i remember Zid (a DMAN) scoring 2 last season and we lost too. 


Edited by SterioDesign, 11 December 2013 - 08:01 AM.

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#226 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:20 AM

on a side note about the game... it fvcking sucks when a guy scores 2 and we dont win (without even getting a damn point), i remember Zid (a DMAN) scoring 2 last season and we lost too. 

 

It's actually worse when the Devils lose a game where they scored 3+.  They're now 9-2-3 in such games.  That's a .750 point% in those games...Devils probably need to be over .800.  Guess who was in net for the two regulation losses and two of the charity-point losses. 

 

BTW Marty has given up 3+ goals in 10 out of 18 starts (total of 35 goals in those starts, 4 or more allowed in four of those games).  Schneider has given up 3 in 6 out of 16 starts (he has yet to allow four in a game).  Not piling on Marty, just wondering what it's going to take before the Devils see this and start making decisions accordingly.

 

Tri was getting at the whole deferential to Marty thing is more on Lou/Marty.  Or at least it seem as if they always control his playing time over the coach.  Plus at this point with Pete's job on the line he doesn't want to risk ticking off the franchise icon in Marty anyway.

 

If this is the case (and who knows if it is?), then I think Pete has to ask Lou, "Are we trying to win hockey games here?  Or is this a victory lap for a player, who, let's face it, is going to cost us wins if I keep playing him?"

 

I just find it hard to believe that Lou would dictate that Marty continue to get more playing time at the expense of everything and everyone else.  Pete WAS ready to go with Cory earlier this season...hopefully he is now.  I don't know what more he could possibly need to see.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 11 December 2013 - 08:21 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#227 EdgeControl

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:40 AM

Tim sestito has to get that fvcking puck deep, he cannot be on the ice with two minutes left in a tie game what the fvck

yup, that led to the garbage at the other end. we could have easily contained there for a bit. instead we lose possession and the jackets get numbers and set up deep


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#228 LucifersDog

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:44 AM


 

 

 

I just find it hard to believe that Lou would dictate that Marty continue to get more playing time at the expense of everything and everyone else.  Pete WAS ready to go with Cory earlier this season...hopefully he is now.  I don't know what more he could possibly need to see.   

 

I do think it is a Marty/Lou/Pete a group decision re: Marty's playing time.  But lets look at your statement if Lou isn't involved with the Marty's playing decision then he should be all over Pete and he isn't. How do I know this because Pete keeps doing the same thing regarding Marty's playing time while Marty is having a bad set of games lately.


Edited by LucifersDog, 11 December 2013 - 08:45 AM.

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#229 NLinfante

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:07 AM

I cant add much that hasnt been said. Obviously this was a rough loss and Marty played poorly. Perhaps the silver lining is that if Brunner gets going and Ryder stays hot, we might actually score 3 or 4 goals per game for a stretch. That needs to be good enough to win games.

 

 

Edit: I am a big supporter of PDB and I think lots of his detractors don't understand how to manage a team with anything other than fire and brimstone...BUT, having the Sestito line on the ice with less than 2 minutes is pretty inexcusable. Even if all of the guys who should have been out there were gassed, he could have used his TO.


Edited by NLinfante, 11 December 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#230 EdgeControl

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:39 AM

Volchenkov was trash as well.

he's falling into the boards a lot and getting smashed because of it.  his legs  are going on him. where is larsson


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#231 Marshall

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:03 AM

DeBoer is the coach.  DeBoer has given a player who is younger and better, and is playing like it.  It's on DeBoer to do the right thing, and play the friggin' guy who gives him and his team the BEST fvckING CHANCE TO WIN THE DAMNED GAME!  God-damn...   

 

Well, judging by his comments regarding Janssen, he feels he can give out playing time to guys that give the team a lesser chance to win because this isn't a shortened season.


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#232 SterioDesign

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:11 AM

one thing is for sure, Pete is a HUGE fan of guys who "paid their due" once you're paid off though you don't have to worry, Gionta, Brodeur, Volch, Salvador etc etc...

 

If we re-sign Schneider and that Pete feel he paid his due he'll play like 82 games a year lol


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#233 Triumph

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:24 AM

The issue is that the Devils have won games with Brodeur and in net and haven't with Schneider and that's the problem.  The offensive gulf between the two is even more stark - the Devils have scored 8 goals in Brodeur's last 2 games.  I think Schneider might've been in net for 8 goals in 2 games, once.  My guess is that there are a myriad of dumb reasons Brodeur got this start - A: Schneider had probably his worst game of the season against Columbus B: Columbus isn't a very good team so Brodeur could regain his confidence against them, maybe C: Brodeur 'felt good, and he asked for it'

 

Schneider was injured for what, 3 games?  So really take that away and they're even in games played.  The problem is they shouldn't be close.


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#234 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:47 AM

The issue is that the Devils have won games with Brodeur and in net and haven't with Schneider and that's the problem.  The offensive gulf between the two is even more stark - the Devils have scored 8 goals in Brodeur's last 2 games.  I think Schneider might've been in net for 8 goals in 2 games, once.  My guess is that there are a myriad of dumb reasons Brodeur got this start - A: Schneider had probably his worst game of the season against Columbus B: Columbus isn't a very good team so Brodeur could regain his confidence against them, maybe C: Brodeur 'felt good, and he asked for it'

 

Schneider was injured for what, 3 games?  So really take that away and they're even in games played.  The problem is they shouldn't be close.

 

The win with Brodeur thing was true earlier, but it's not now (they've lost five out their last six Brodeur starts), and the Devils going 7-1 in an 8-game stretch of Marty's starts had everything to do with Marty giving up just 11 goals over that time frame (and finding a way to win the two games where Marty gave up 3 goals).  I would think that if Schneider went on a similar run, the Devils would find ways to win games for him eventually.  I think the difference in goal support has everything to do with luck more than anything else, but Cory hasn't yet gotten the extended run to prove that.  

 

In bold:  yep.  Like it's been pointed out, Marty getting hot and Cory getting hurt played a factor, but by now, Cory should've gotten at least 60% of the starts.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 11 December 2013 - 10:48 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#235 BlueSkirt

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

If the Devils go 30-20 the rest of the way, that should be enough to make it.

 

Ugh, that really puts it into perspective. 


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#236 EdgeControl

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:30 AM

on a good note, bouch has added a nice spark which fills out the top 3 lines. debo has some workable combos. need to IR volch again and get carter and larsson back


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#237 ATLL765

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:33 AM

on a good note, bouch has added a nice spark which fills out the top 3 lines. debo has some workable combos. need to IR volch again and get carter and larsson back

What exactly was wrong with Larsson? Maybe I'm paranoid(I am), but every game he sits out, the more concerned I become that they might trade him for a forward.


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#238 SterioDesign

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:37 AM

What exactly was wrong with Larsson? Maybe I'm paranoid(I am), but every game he sits out, the more concerned I become that they might trade him for a forward.

 

I'd be more upset if the return is not good, by the look of our young dmen i'd give up Larsson for a few young forwards. We really but really need to balance our future.


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#239 dmann422

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:41 AM

Boy it's always good to wait 12 hours to let the steam die off before posting lol. Lots of angry posters last night.

Some positives to take: hopefully our offense is starting to spark a little. Now back to back games with 4 goals. Ryder is finally earning his paycheck this past week, and hopefully brunners goal propels him moving forward. If we regularly score 3 or more goals we should be in good shape.

Obviously the negative was brodeur, along with gelinas and Merrill showing a few warts, but it's to be expected. Hopefully Pete takes this as an opportunity to position Cory as the regular starter moving forward, but with all the back to backs that might be hard.
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#240 Triumph

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:42 AM

What exactly was wrong with Larsson? Maybe I'm paranoid(I am), but every game he sits out, the more concerned I become that they might trade him for a forward.

 

Since when do they trade injured players?


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