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GDT - 12/23 Devils at Blackhawks


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#221 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:51 AM

He's never been given the opportunity.  He deserves the chance.

 

Why does he deserve the chance? He needs to earn it by winning games. 

 

Cory - 17GP  4-8-5, 2.20 GAA, .910, 2 SO

 

Marty - 21GP 11-8-2, 2.38 GAA, .902, 3 SO

 

While Cory's numbers are better, they aren't better by enough to offset the win column. Cory has to gain the confidence of his coach and team mates, and he has to seize his opportunities. 


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#222 Steven M.

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:03 AM

Well, this weekend we have a back to back against two teams that the team, if they want to be considered a team that even deserves to be in the conversation... "should" beat. Cory will obviously get one of these games. I'd even like to see him get both games because I think that's a better guage of what he's dealing with right now. Cory's lost his last three to some Stanley Cup contenders. Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Chicago. Marty's past three opponents haven't been on this level. If Cory struggles against the Jackets or Isles... then yes, we should probably be worried.
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#223 leeski

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:04 AM

The fact that we only managed 12 shots should be the main topic in this thread, not Schneider's performance.


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#224 maxpower

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:09 AM

The fact that we only managed 12 shots should be the main topic in this thread, not Schneider's performance.

 

The problem is this is now the 4th or 5th time a trainwreck game has taken place with him in net


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#225 Joe B

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:14 AM

As I said at the trade.  It's Marty's job until Cory takes it.  Cory has not taken it.  Pete has tried, but Cory just hasn't.  Marty is streaky, but Marty is winning.  This isn't baseball where your offense is not affected but pitching,  Marty plays the puck more.  Cory while getting better isn't on the same page with he D all the time.  Blame the rookies a bit casue Marty hasn't been on the same page with them a couple times, but Cory just doesn't help himself when he's out of his crease.  And he stops play too often, Marty just has a better feel for wheat the team needs.  

 

 

Marty would be starting goalie if the devs played playoffs right now,

 

All that being said, was just an off night.  Cory will be the goalie of the future,  Whether that future is next season or by the end of this season is up to Cory stepping up when Marty goes in one of his bad streaks.  Cause if Marty is playing well, it's Marty's job and he deserves it.  

 

And if it's like now and both aren't on their A game, it's still Marty's job.  Cory is the future, but Marty has been here 20 fvcking years which is why their is so much Cory trolling tonight because of the double standard with some posters that have to take shots every game towards Marty even when when he wins. 

 

 

As for tonight,  one of a few bad games of the year.  I would be much more worried if they haven't played every other top team well.  3 in 4 nights, 4 in 6 nights,  road,, xmas break,  Didn't think it started bad, but once there was, the fight wasn't there.  again, don't come back from down 2 last game, more worried, but the team has had the heart most of the year.  so to quote AEN 'what, me worry?'

 

teddy look like he will have more value on another team,  shows flashes but I just don't see it.  

 

I like jj's game but he needs to show more killer instinct on the kill.  Glad it was back for the team a few games ago cause I don't remember the offensive chances like we've had the previous years under Pete.  I thought jj had a few chance to push but either didn't see it or didn't think it.  i'm not sure which is worse.

 

i really want to see Larsson and Gelly as a pair for every game they are healthy for the next, I don't know, dozen years?  Glad there is the break.  I think he needs to balance his game again,  Gelly has impressed me with his skating,  

 

Whole team has seemed to be skating out of the zone better on the pp.  Different breakouts? more confidence?  Anyone care to explain?

 

Speaking of Cory taking control,  Who is gonna step up to be the clear number 2 line?  Ryder is making his case.  Boucher has the skills and has a more complete game then I was expecting, Hit the post tonight, I think I saw him out there on a shift with Patty and Jagr, Maybe it was just a broken line change but that is getting a young skill player a chance if I've ever seen one.

 

took 5 of a tough 8

 

6 of the next 8 games are home games.  Take 12 of 16, including payback for tonight's loss and the team will be in a good place.

 

 

 

 

I can just imagine this board next year when Marty signs a 1 year deal while Cory extends for 8 on the same day.   That's how Lou rolls


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#226 Steven M.

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:19 AM

Good post man... one thing I will definitely agree with is on Cory stopping play VERY often. Maybe he's just completely lacking the confidence to move the puck or keep play alive because he gets that defensive zone faceoff almost every time he gets a chance. I'm not really sure that's a good thing at all.
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#227 Mike Brown

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:23 AM

Why does he deserve the chance? He needs to earn it by winning games. 

 

Cory - 17GP  4-8-5, 2.20 GAA, .910, 2 SO

 

Marty - 21GP 11-8-2, 2.38 GAA, .902, 3 SO

 

While Cory's numbers are better, they aren't better by enough to offset the win column. Cory has to gain the confidence of his coach and team mates, and he has to seize his opportunities. 

 

He deserves the chance because he's the better goalie.  He deserves the chance because Lou made a big sacrifice to get him.  He deserves the chance because the alternative has played worse.  Cory is the more important goalie to this team.


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#228 maxpower

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:30 AM

He deserves the chance because he's the better goalie.  He deserves the chance because Lou made a big sacrifice to get him.  He deserves the chance because the alternative has played worse.  Cory is the more important goalie to this team.

 

Then maybe they should stop getting outshot 35-15 in half of the games he plays in, there's more to playing goalie that stopping the puck and his numbers are not much better anymore.   So basically everyone bitched about Marty being entitled to the job even though he wasn't winning and was shot, and now Schneider is entitled to the job even though he's not winning and isn't really playing significantly better.


Edited by maxpower, 24 December 2013 - 01:31 AM.

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#229 CarterforPresident

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:33 AM

Lou seems to be fine with how the goalie splits are mike.. And cory is a wreck outside the net.
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#230 thefiestygoat

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:20 AM

Right now Cory's playing 'why is he still playing bad' too...his GAA's 3.4 for the month and he's done something bad in just about every game (the hideous first goal at Pittsburgh, the nightmare shootout against the Habs and tonight's trainwreck with two bad goals).  Marty's not been much better this month but at least he's going to have confidence.  Cory has none at the moment, and at SOME point four wins in 17 games ain't gonna cut it.

 

It doesn't help Cory's playing playoff teams practically every game either, they need to give him a couple of soft landing games and try to get him some W's and get his confidence back.

No doubt Schneider's had a bad December but to me it was more like "this is a NHL goalie in a slump" and not the "why is this old guy flailing around the crease." I love Brodeur, but when he's been bad, he's been really bad. Schneider by far has had fewer horrendous games.

 

I really hope Schneider works out too as if he doesn't then I think this could be the move that might end Lou's career with the devils. To say we passed up some good talent on the board to get Schneider is looking like a big understatement.

I said it back at the draft after I got over my initial shock of the trade, I like this deal if Lou signs Schneider to an extension this summer, otherwise I hate it. If Brodeur decides to come back for another year then I'd look to trade Schneider to a contender desperate for goaltending this summer. I can't imagine Schneider being happy spending another year of his career in a goaltending controversy and I would doubt he'd want to stay with the organization then after that final year on his contract. Either next year this is his team or he should be moved.

 

That's the other pink elephant in the room...although you know they weren't picking the Russian kid anyway considering the Kovy/KHL mess.  It would have been even more embarassing passing him up for another prospect as opposed to taking a shot at Cory, at least you could rationalize it away then trading off one need for another need that's more of a proven commodity.

I don't think passing up on Nichushkin would've been embarrassing. Horvat's a solid prospect and was my favorite entering the draft out of all the guys that I thought would be available for the Devils. I would've been thrilled to have him. Horvat may not have that high end potential or beautiful offensive touch like Nichushkin but he really seems to have a good shot of being a solid 2 way 2nd line C for years to come.

 

Cory could be lights out, but if the guys in front of him don't play as well as they do in front of Marty then forget it.

I doubt anything Brodeur does really impacts the offense enough to make up for this much of a difference. Of course he is much better at playing the puck and helping the breakout occasionally but I doubt it's enough to account for that much more offense in a game. Maybe he helps add a few goals over the course of the full year which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much.

 

Why does he deserve the chance? He needs to earn it by winning games. 

 

Cory - 17GP  4-8-5, 2.20 GAA, .910, 2 SO

 

Marty - 21GP 11-8-2, 2.38 GAA, .902, 3 SO

 

While Cory's numbers are better, they aren't better by enough to offset the win column. Cory has to gain the confidence of his coach and team mates, and he has to seize his opportunities. 

Devils shoot 11.1% in front of Brodeur. They shoot 7.0% in front of Schneider. Out of 40 goalies with a minimum 15+ GP, that gives Brodeur the 2nd most favorable SH% support and Schneider one of the least favorable at 36th. Factor in normal regression towards the mean and Brodeur's record wouldn't look as good and Schneider's would look better than what it is now. I posted a few pages back that the Devils only give Schneider about 1.6 goals per game of support which is just over a full goal less than what Brodeur gets. I don't know where that ranks amongst NHL goalies but I imagine Schneider has to be right up there towards least favorable goal support.

 

Devils have lost 9 games in which Schneider has given up 3 goals or less, including 2 games where he gave up 2 goals.  When Brodeur gives up 3 goals or more the Devils have won 4 of those games. This is why I hate using W-L records since they don't tell the whole story.

 

The fact that we only managed 12 shots should be the main topic in this thread, not Schneider's performance.

This. I guess I missed the part of hockey camp growing up where they taught that the goalie is responsible for his team's offense and not the skaters.


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#231 Mike Brown

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:33 AM

Lou seems to be fine with how the goalie splits are mike.. And cory is a wreck outside the net.

 

Except there hasn't been a split.  Marty has played in 55% of the games.  And what does his ability to play the puck have to do with anything?

 

Then maybe they should stop getting outshot 35-15 in half of the games he plays in, there's more to playing goalie that stopping the puck and his numbers are not much better anymore.   So basically everyone bitched about Marty being entitled to the job even though he wasn't winning and was shot, and now Schneider is entitled to the job even though he's not winning and isn't really playing significantly better.

 

You seem to forget that the Devils also had a game where they only mustered up 14 shots against the Flyers when Marty was in net.  The disparity is nothing more than a coincidence, and eventually the team will start playing better in front of Schneider as well.  Like I've been saying, Schneider has had great games only to be benched the very next game.  That's what can't happen.  Yet Marty is allowed to have 2 stinkers in a row.

 

I'd also like to mention that on HF, you told me that .01 difference in SV% is very significant.  Remember when I argued that a .920 SV% and .910 SV% wasn't THAT much of a difference, and you came back explaining to me that the difference in GAA as a result was very significant?  Now you're telling me that a .910 SV% and a .900 SV% isn't significant at all.


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#232 maxpower

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:36 AM

Except there hasn't been a split.  Marty has played in 55% of the games.  And what does his ability to play the puck have to do with anything?

 

 

You seem to forget that the Devils also had a game where they only mustered up 14 shots against the Flyers when Marty was in net.  The disparity is nothing more than a coincidence, and eventually the team will start playing better in front of Schneider as well.  Like I've been saying, Schneider has had great games only to be benched the very next game.  That's what can't happen.  Yet Marty is allowed to have 2 stinkers in a row.

 

I'd also like to mention that on HF, you told me that .01 difference in SV% is very significant.  Remember when I argued that a .920 SV% and .910 SV% wasn't THAT much of a difference, and you came back explaining to me that the difference in GAA as a result was very significant?  Now you're telling me that a .910 SV% and a .900 SV% isn't significant at all.

 

I don't post on HF anymore, haven't for a couple of years


Edited by maxpower, 24 December 2013 - 03:36 AM.

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#233 Marv4Life

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:52 AM

How come this wasn't a problem in Vancouver? How come his team "bailed him out" there while here is the exact opposite? It's not just him though he has not been impressive at all.
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#234 LucifersDog

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:57 AM

Welcome to the Marty & Cory show !

 

Devils play the Blackhawks the second best team in the NHL. and ;lose 2-5

 

Devils have on the ice for 18 minutes Merrill a rockie D along with Gelinas another rookie D for 21 minutes and on the offensive side we had Gionta an AHL player for 10 mins, Josefson a ? player for 10 mins, Janssen another AHL player for 7 mins,Tedendy a ? player for 14 mins. And we expect to win or have a close game?

 

We have DeBoer and his system as coach dump and forecheck against a powerful Blackhawk D that schooled us. And we expect to win?

 

But now we are talking about a goalie dispute, how does that happen?

 

The Devils don't belong in the playoffs this season, period ! They are only a thought because the division has so many other teams that don't belong in the playoffs.

 

When are Devils fans going to understand that with the injuries, these players, DeBoer's bad player selections and marginal goal tending from both goalie to date this team doesn't belong in the NHL playoffs.

 

Yet the discussion is about the goaltending. Strange

 

Merry Christmas folks and Happy Holidays


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#235 EdgeControl

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:29 AM

The fact that we only managed 12 shots should be the main topic in this thread, not Schneider's performance.

seriously! its like complaining to the capt of the titanic that your coffee was served cold. the team was completely sufficated. the score was not a reflection on how bad they were handled last night. the hawks had little respect for our skaters, the gaps given were microscopic. only zajac looked like he belonged on the ice with those guys. deboer had no answer in his bag of tricks


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#236 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:37 AM

 

 

Devils shoot 11.1% in front of Brodeur. They shoot 7.0% in front of Schneider. Out of 40 goalies with a minimum 15+ GP, that gives Brodeur the 2nd most favorable SH% support and Schneider one of the least favorable at 36th. Factor in normal regression towards the mean and Brodeur's record wouldn't look as good and Schneider's would look better than what it is now. I posted a few pages back that the Devils only give Schneider about 1.6 goals per game of support which is just over a full goal less than what Brodeur gets. I don't know where that ranks amongst NHL goalies but I imagine Schneider has to be right up there towards least favorable goal support.

 

Devils have lost 9 games in which Schneider has given up 3 goals or less, including 2 games where he gave up 2 goals.  When Brodeur gives up 3 goals or more the Devils have won 4 of those games. This is why I hate using W-L records since they don't tell the whole story.

 

This. I guess I missed the part of hockey camp growing up where they taught that the goalie is responsible for his team's offense and not the skaters.

 

I understand the whole goal support issue, but Deboer needs wins. At the end of the day, it's about getting those 2 points. Cory needs to win games to earn the number one spot. Deboer is going to go with the guy that the team is playing for, and it's up to Cory to gain the confidence of is team mates and coach. 


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#237 maxpower

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:44 AM

How come this wasn't a problem in Vancouver? How come his team "bailed him out" there while here is the exact opposite? It's not just him though he has not been impressive at all.

 

Better team.  If this little theory that his lack of puck playing effects how the team plays is real, it's not really saying anything about him, it's saying something about the team.  It's not doing him any favors, nor is the way Pete using him doing him any favors.  He needs a couple of soft games right now and they might as well have rolled Marty out there last night as the most likely outcome was a loss anyway.


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#238 devilsrule33

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:21 AM

I understand the whole goal support issue, but Deboer needs wins. At the end of the day, it's about getting those 2 points. Cory needs to win games to earn the number one spot. Deboer is going to go with the guy that the team is playing for, and it's up to Cory to gain the confidence of is team mates and coach. 

 

If it's about getting 2 points, well Deboer will never make the right decision. Right now, Brodeur has gotten tons of goal support and the much much much easier schedule. If you switched the schedule around, would this even be up for debate?

 

The last two games sum it up. Brodeur is atrocious in Washington and gets the win giving up 4 goals on 22 freaking shots. Schneider goes in against a team that is light years better and takes the loss giving up 5 goals on 37 shots. A good game? Certainly not, but a lot better than Brodeur.

 

Many nights Brodeur doesn't give this team a chance to win.The Devils lost to the Jackets less than two weeks ago 5-4 when giving up 23 shots. Brodeur did not make one solid save the entire night. When Schneider gets a start against a team like Columbus and loses when the team scores 4 goals in front of him when only giving up 23 shots, then I'll have cause for concern.

 

It's not really fair when you throw Cory vs Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Chicago, Detroit, and Montreal and Brodeur vs Washington, Tampa, Ottawa, and NY and compare it by wins and losses of the two goalies.


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#239 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:28 AM

How do you justify giving Schneider 5 starts in a row? You keep saying "look at that LA game!!", but are you really going to tel me in his last few starts he's a bonifide #1 goalie? I don't care how poorly New Jersey played, 5 goals is 5 goals is 5 goals is 5 goals. When Marty let's them in, we all say "turn to Schneider next game". When Corey does, why can't we turn to Marty?

 

Just stop it...that is too rational a thought for the Marty haters in the room.  Too many people are willfully blind to Cory's mistakes, but are oh so quick to jump all over Brodeur for making the same ones.  Marty is a legend...rightly or wrongly, if Cory wants to take his job, he needs to be lights out and distance himself completely from Brodeur in every statistical category (most importantly in wins).  He hasn't done that yet hence the split.   

 

Plus, is anyone really surprised we went into Chicago and lost last night?  We are a middling .500 team.  They are the top team in the NHL, and a matchup nightmare for the Devils (they are way to fast in transition for our team to handle effectively).  We stunk but, overall, we are not in a bad position at this point in the season.  If you told me in September we'd be 1 point out of a playoff spot after the roster upheaval in the offseason, and the number of injuries we have had to endure, I would have taken it.


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#240 ATLL765

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:41 AM

Just stop it...that is too rational a thought for the Marty haters in the room.  Too many people are willfully blind to Cory's mistakes, but are oh so quick to jump all over Brodeur for making the same ones.  Marty is a legend...rightly or wrongly, if Cory wants to take his job, he needs to be lights out and distance himself completely from Brodeur in every statistical category (most importantly in wins).  He hasn't done that yet hence the split.   

 

Plus, is anyone really surprised we went into Chicago and lost last night?  We are a middling .500 team.  They are the top team in the NHL, and a matchup nightmare for the Devils (they are way to fast in transition for our team to handle effectively).  We stunk but, overall, we are not in a bad position at this point in the season.  If you told me in September we'd be 1 point out of a playoff spot after the roster upheaval in the offseason, and the number of injuries we have had to endure, I would have taken it.

If not for his past couple games, his stats would stand out more. How is Schneider supposed to get in a rythym when, no matter what, he gets 2 games in a row and then doesn't see the ice for another week. I don't want to see Brodeur as the default starter because we all know that Schneider is the better goalie right now. Looking at this season they look like they're close, but over the past few, Schneider has already proven he's better. That's not the question here. Schneider needs to get 60-70% of the starts because he's better, period. Just because Marty got lucky and we score when he's in doesn't make him better. Schneider will get his sh!t together, but I think he needs an easier game to get back into it. One where we actually get a lead so he doesn't have to feel like every goal is another nail in the coffin.


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