Jump to content

Photo

Presenting...the New Jersey Devils last 26 shootout attempts


  • Please log in to reply
181 replies to this topic

#61 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,793 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:39 PM

And PDB still refuses to practice shootouts/breakways/finishing on a regular basis!

 

Yeah, I'm sure by practicing the shootout, these players who have spent their entire lives handling pucks, stickhandling, and thinking about how to deke out goalies will get much better at doing that.

 

The only reason to practice the shootout is to inform the coach who might be better at it than previously thought should he need to go looking for candidates.  


Edited by Triumph, 13 January 2014 - 01:40 PM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#62 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,512 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:44 PM

We're lacking finesse players, I don't really know if wasting time at the end of practice is going to help the fact that we have a lot of one type of player and absolutely zero of another type of player on our roster.

 

Randy Miller was justified in asking DeBoer that type of question, and DeBoer was just fine by me in responding the way he did. Good to see some frustration and anger in him.


  • 0

#63 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,554 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:59 PM

re:  shootouts...it will always be what it is. 

 

Detroit has always been a team that's had its share of skill players through the years.  Their lifetime shootout record?  39-48

 

Even with the Devils' recent suckage (2-14 in shootouts the last two years), they're still 56-43 in shootouts overall.  Just makes one realize how absurdly awesome they were in them for a while.  54-29 through the end of the 2011-12 season.  Great when you have both shooters and goalies who excel in them.  But even if the Devils start finding the back of the net, Schneider's been more of a .600 guy than the .700+ Marty's been.  And like shooters, goalies can unexpectedly be great at these things too...MAF is 42-17 with a .777 save% in SOs.  A lot of luck involved.     


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 13 January 2014 - 06:33 PM.

  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#64 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,512 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:27 PM

Schneider's been more of a .600 guy than the .700+ Marty's been.  And like shooters, goalies can unexpectedly be great at these things too...MAF is 42-17 with a .777 save% in SOs.  A lot of luck involved.     

 

Yeah it's kind of crazy. It's like, Schneider will stop that breakaway situation with a minute left in regulation time, but doesn't seem too solid on it during the shootout. Not a testament to his skill or whatever, but an intangible, one of those things we'll never understand. There are 4th liners that some teams throw on the shootout because they are randomly skilled at it...(???)


  • 0

#65 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,401 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:17 PM

Yeah, I'm sure by practicing the shootout, these players who have spent their entire lives handling pucks, stickhandling, and thinking about how to deke out goalies will get much better at doing that.

 

The only reason to practice the shootout is to inform the coach who might be better at it than previously thought should he need to go looking for candidates.  

 

Not quite true. Firstly, practicing the shootout can keep the breakaway situation fresh in players minds. Players aren't necessarily prepared for shootouts and practicing them allows players to develop moves and better learn how NHL goalies react one on one. Many players get so focused on the team game because of how much work they put into to being NHL caliber, that the more individual aspects of their game suffer. Better yet, if your coaching staff is aware of the tendencies of the upcoming team's goalie, replicating that in a shootout could do wonders for the players' preparation. It's naive to think that NHL players cannot improve their shootout skills just because they have been playing hockey for their whole lives. 


  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#66 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,967 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:36 PM

Not quite true. Firstly, practicing the shootout can keep the breakaway situation fresh in players minds. Players aren't necessarily prepared for shootouts and practicing them allows players to develop moves and better learn how NHL goalies react one on one. Many players get so focused on the team game because of how much work they put into to being NHL caliber, that the more individual aspects of their game suffer. Better yet, if your coaching staff is aware of the tendencies of the upcoming team's goalie, replicating that in a shootout could do wonders for the players' preparation. It's naive to think that NHL players cannot improve their shootout skills just because they have been playing hockey for their whole lives. 

 

right, for example Kovalchuk (who was already handling the puck and knew how to score obviously more than most guys in the NHL) was always struggling in SO, until Brodeur gave him a trick and then the fvcker couldnt stop scoring.


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#67 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,554 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:52 PM

right, for example Kovalchuk (who was already handling the puck and knew how to score obviously more than most guys in the NHL) was always struggling in SO, until Brodeur gave him a trick and then the fvcker couldnt stop scoring.

 

More of an exception to the rule. 

 

What do people think...teams who have a lot of success in the shootout just work on them tirelessly?  Devils had an awesome awesome run.  It wasn't going to last forever.  Neither will the god-awful run they're on now. 

 

Want to practice it, sure, why not, but I don't think it will make that much difference. 


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#68 RizzMB30

RizzMB30

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 900 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:56 PM

The shootout is totally random, and the stats back that up. As a goalie, I would say that confidence is one half and that luck is the other. The Devils are being plagued by both in this case I think. Yes its been a long stretch of suckage, but it wont last forever. Due to it being a confidence thing, its not something u can blame the coach for. His choices of shooters on the other hand is a different issue

Edited by RizzMB30, 13 January 2014 - 06:58 PM.

  • 0

This fan will never forget Scott Stevens.

 believe-ll.jpgbelieve-devs.jpg

 


#69 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,401 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:47 PM

More of an exception to the rule. 

 

What do people think...teams who have a lot of success in the shootout just work on them tirelessly?  Devils had an awesome awesome run.  It wasn't going to last forever.  Neither will the god-awful run they're on now. 

 

Want to practice it, sure, why not, but I don't think it will make that much difference. 

 

While, I think what Sterio said is a simplification, it's not just a coincidence that we are failing on the shootout - but only that we are failing THIS bad. If you can couple a few coincidences with poor play then that is how you end up with the worst record in the league on the shootout. My previous points still stand though,over-practicing the shootout certainly won't help, as DeBoer rightly hinted at. Secondly, the argument you made ("What do people think...teams who have a lot of success in the shootout just work on them tirelessly?") is faulty because no one is saying that you HAVE to practice the shootout to perform well at it but that if you are failing at it, it should become are area to work on.


  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#70 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,967 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:42 AM

well lets hear what Pierre has to say about it

 

http://www.nj.com/de...otout_woes.html


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#71 redruM

redruM

    Hockey God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,487 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:10 AM

And PDB still refuses to practice shootouts/breakways/finishing on a regular basis!

you seriously think they should waste time practicing the shootout??

 

They could sepnd all practice on the PP and it would not be enough for me!!


  • 0
Posted Image

2006 Pat Burns Award Winner(Most emotional Poster)
2006 JHL CHAMPION!!
2005 CHAMPION of the 1st Annual NJDevs Fantasy Wrestling League!!!
2005 Finalist 1st Annual NJDEVS Fantasy Baseball League
2005 Pat Burns Award Winner(Most emotional Poster)
2004 LockOut Trivia CHAMP!!!


Keeper of The original Welcome to Hell Forum, Jimmy Dowd, Brian Rolston, "Christmas Tree" Jersey's and the Original Trade Documents of the FREEZE man!!


BOM U11G Dynamite

Posted Image

#72 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,554 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:14 AM

well lets hear what Pierre has to say about it

 

http://www.nj.com/de...otout_woes.html

 

I'm guessing you probably focused on this part of the article:

 

There's no doubt part of the problem is that the Devils lost their two best offensive players during the last two offseasons.

 

In 2011-12, coach Pete DeBoer’s first season with the Devils, they were 12-4 in shootouts with Zach Parise and Ilya Kovalchuk combining for 19 goals on 30 shots.

Both are gone now

 

But this is also accurate:

 

"A lot of the teams practice it after every practice, some even practice it in the pregame skate,” McGuire said. “It’s hard to equate. The Detroit Red Wings have some of the best shootout players in the league in terms of skill and go check their record. They were 0-7 at one point and now they’re 1-7."

 

"You can practice it all you want,” McGuire said, “but if you’re not comfortable with it … It’s a different situation. That’s why it’s called a skilled competition. It’s just a weird kind of a deal."

 

The writer wonders why Brodeur isn't as good in shootouts as he once was.  Maybe because he's 41 and not what he was?  At any rate, 11 shots against is a pretty small sample.   

Schneider has faced the same number of shots this season, so trying to draw conclusions from those samples is probably futile. 

 

But yeah, if you're getting meh-ish goaltending in these things, and basically taking 0-fers in every shooting attempt, yeah, you're going to lose a lot. 


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#73 2ELIAS6

2ELIAS6

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,656 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:38 AM

you seriously think they should waste time practicing the shootout??
 
They could sepnd all practice on the PP and it would not be enough for me!!

i think they should be practicing the shoot out regularly. ... at the end of every practice they should run through it. however if the players on the team(the majority of them) just arent talented in that department i dont think practicing it over and over will change all that much in the end
  • 0
believe-devs.jpg1dun.jpg

*authentic Martin Brodeur autographed goalie stick with COA for sale pm me if interested*

#74 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,967 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:45 AM

I'm guessing you probably focused on this part of the article:

 

There's no doubt part of the problem is that the Devils lost their two best offensive players during the last two offseasons.

 

In 2011-12, coach Pete DeBoer’s first season with the Devils, they were 12-4 in shootouts with Zach Parise and Ilya Kovalchuk combining for 19 goals on 30 shots.

Both are gone now

 

lol i mean seriously, every time I mention something about Zach you get on my case whining about it that i'm beating a dead horse, yet every chances YOU get to bring it up quoting me even though i havent said a thing about it really, you'll go for it. You're really one of a kind.

 

Not even the first time i'm telling you this. YOU keep bringing up this conversation or stuff i said in the past. If you really want me to shut up about it stop poking.


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#75 devlman

devlman

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,976 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:55 AM

Yeah, I'm sure by practicing the shootout, these players who have spent their entire lives handling pucks, stickhandling, and thinking about how to deke out goalies will get much better at doing that.

The only reason to practice the shootout is to inform the coach who might be better at it than previously thought should he need to go looking for candidates.

Yeah I'm sure confidence plays no factor. Yeah I'm also sure practicing skills doesn't apply to professional players, cuz you know, they never do drills which incorporate stick handling or skating or anything. Yeah I'm also sure we don't need to look for other shootout candidates because we are so great at shootouts. What drivel.

Edited by devlman, 14 January 2014 - 11:00 AM.

  • 0

#76 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,554 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 11:06 AM

lol i mean seriously, every time I mention something about Zach you get on my case whining about it that i'm beating a dead horse, yet every chances YOU get to bring it up quoting me even though i havent said a thing about it really, you'll go for it. You're really one of a kind.

 

Not even the first time i'm telling you this. YOU keep bringing up this conversation or stuff i said in the past. If you really want me to shut up about it stop poking.

 

You posted the link, I clicked on it and read it.  Based on things you've said previously, I wouldn't be surprised if your eyes happened to go to that part of the article first and foremost.

 

But anyway, I think what Pierre was going for is that there's no real answers.  Sure, they can practice, but it may not make any real difference.  I think what the Devils have on their side, more than anything, is the law of averages.  Even the teams who have sucked at shootouts since their implementation don't often lose them at this high of a rate. 

 

One thing that I think we can safely say won't be as good as it once was is the goaltending the Devils got in shootouts though the end of 2012.  Marty was a .710ish guy during that time, and they got decent shootout performance from other goalies too.  Cory's been a .630ish guy in his career, and soon someone not named Marty Brodeur will be the Devils' backup.  Maybe the Devils get lucky and that guy will be a good shootout performer (like Hedberg was).    


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#77 '7'

'7'

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,146 posts

Posted 16 January 2014 - 11:50 PM

Andrei Loktionov unsuccessful attempt versus Ben Bishop

Travis Zajac unsuccessful attempt versus Mathieu Garon

Patrik Elias unsuccessful attempt versus Mathieu Garon

Steve Sullivan unsuccessful attempt versus Ryan Miller

Patrik Elias unsuccessful attempt versus Ryan Miller

Travis Zajac unsuccessful attempt versus Ryan Miller

Damien Brunner unsuccessful attempt versus Evgeni Nabokov

Ryane Clowe unsuccessful attempt versus Evgeni Nabokov

Patrik Elias unsuccessful attempt versus Evgeni Nabokov

Travis Zajac unsuccessful attempt versus Evgeni Nabokov

Michael Ryder unsuccessful attempt versus Evgeni Nabokov

Jaromir Jagr unsuccessful attempt versus Evgeni Nabokov

Damien Brunner unsuccessful attempt versus Jason LaBarbera

Ryane Clowe unsuccessful attempt versus Jason LaBarbera

Travis Zajac unsuccessful attempt versus Roberto Luongo

Adam Henrique unsuccessful attempt versus Roberto Luongo

Patrik Elias unsuccessful attempt versus Roberto Luongo

Michael Ryder unsuccessful attempt versus Jonathan Bernier

Travis Zajac unsuccessful attempt versus Jonathan Bernier

Adam Henrique unsuccessful attempt versus Jonathan Bernier

Reid Boucher successful attempt versus Peter Budaj

Travis Zajac unsuccessful attempt versus Peter Budaj

Patrik Elias unsuccessful attempt versus Peter Budaj

Jaromir Jagr unsuccessful attempt versus Curtis McElhinney

Ryan Clowe unsuccessful attempt versus Curtis McElhinney

Patrik Elias unsuccessful attempt versus Curtis McElhinney

Jaromir Jagr unsuccessful attempt versus Jonathan Bernier

Ryan Clowe unsuccessful attempt versus Jonathan Bernier

Patrik Elias unsuccessful attempt versus Semyon Varlamov

Adam Henrique unsuccessful attempt versus Semyon Varlamov

 

 

1-31 in shootout attempts. 0-12 (new NHL record)

 

this is all psychological

 

will it turn around one day? Sure it will, but it's not about turning it around...it's about turning it around before incredible damage to our playoff chances has been done. How long will they carry this on?

 

1-60 perhaps. Maybe lose every shootout until 2016?

 

What are the odds of even getting to this point? 1 in a million I'd guess. No exaggeration


Edited by '7', 16 January 2014 - 11:57 PM.

  • 0
^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
Posted Image Posted Image

#78 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,793 posts

Posted 17 January 2014 - 02:01 AM

if you're 50% to win every shootout, it'd be 1/(2^12) which is not close to a million.  (1/4096).  If you're 30% to win each one, it's 1.4%, so within 100.  Binomial theorem wise, if NJ's shooters are collectively 30% to score on a given shot, going 1/31 or worse is .02% likely.  


Edited by Triumph, 17 January 2014 - 02:02 AM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#79 sassquash

sassquash

    Albany Devil

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 257 posts

Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:17 AM

Hey can we pull the goalie on the shootout and go 2-on-0 vs the other team? Can't hurt :P


  • 0

functionless art is simply tolerated vandalism


#80 redruM

redruM

    Hockey God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,487 posts

Posted 17 January 2014 - 08:37 AM

Hey can we pull the goalie on the shootout and go 2-on-0 vs the other team? Can't hurt :P

Just let Marty Shoot!!


  • 0
Posted Image

2006 Pat Burns Award Winner(Most emotional Poster)
2006 JHL CHAMPION!!
2005 CHAMPION of the 1st Annual NJDevs Fantasy Wrestling League!!!
2005 Finalist 1st Annual NJDEVS Fantasy Baseball League
2005 Pat Burns Award Winner(Most emotional Poster)
2004 LockOut Trivia CHAMP!!!


Keeper of The original Welcome to Hell Forum, Jimmy Dowd, Brian Rolston, "Christmas Tree" Jersey's and the Original Trade Documents of the FREEZE man!!


BOM U11G Dynamite

Posted Image




1 user(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users