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NFL Off Season 2014 - Coaches, Caps, and Combines OH MY!


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#41 NJDevs4978

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:41 AM

 

Jay Gruden, like his brother is very, very overrated.

 

You're probably correct since he's now about to be coach of the Redskins :lol:


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#42 Beezer34

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:05 AM

I don`t love the idea of an 8-7-1 team hosting playoff games against a 12-4 team, while a 10-6 team misses the playoffs. That sucks all around. Too many examples of divisions just being sh!tty.

 

As a Jets fan.. the fact that Green Bay not only made the playoffs, but actually hosted a home game WITH 8 WINS (the same as my Jets) leaves me butt hurt, I'm not gonna lie. But I'd guess that I'm not alone among fans who's teams were 8-8. I don't know the answer in how to fix it, but there should be some rule where the threshold in winning a Division is at least 9 wins.

We all know the story of the 7-9 Seahawks winning the Division in 2010. Or the Broncos winning an AFC West Title with an 8-8 record.. the San Diego Chargers winning their Division @ 8-8 in 2008. It happens about once a year. A team will get in that everyone says didn't deserve to. Maybe it's time the NFL figure out a solution to THAT, instead of further rewarding mediocrity, by allowing nearly half the league to make the postseason.


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#43 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:19 AM

You could just do away with divisions and go to a pure conference format.  Top 6 teams get in, end of story.  Everyone plays each team in their conference once (no more playing out-of-conference teams).  It all depends on how much you'd miss division rivalries.  It would seem silly to keep divisions alive if winning the division doesn't mean anything. 

 

Short answer:  not matter what system is used, there probably isn't one that will make everyone happy.  Me personally, I do like the division rivalries (there are some great ones), and playing four games out-of-conference per season, just because (facing some different teams).  Yeah, it sucks that crappy division winners sometimes get to host home games against teams that are clearly better, but as long as winning the division is supposed to have significance (even if the divison blows), then I don't see how division winners can have a "worthy" cutoff win total.    

 

EDIT:  just realized that playing every team in your conference once only leads to 15 games, and no way in hell the NFL is going to want LESS games on the schedule.  Maybe that 16th game could be the one out-of-conference game, and is based on the previous year's standings somehow.  Maybe the #1 overall AFC team plays the #1 overall NFC team based on the previous season (and so on, down the line)?   

 

Not saying I would want to see the above implemented...just brainstorming about how to get the top 6 teams (based on purely on record and tie-breakers) in. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 09 January 2014 - 09:38 AM.

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#44 NJDevs4978

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:26 AM

The easy solution is just reseed 3-6 something similar to the NBA, division winners still get an automatic berth but not an automatic home game. I understand in theory why the NFL does it this way but with four team divisions and less than 40% of your games being division games perhaps winning the division shouldn't have a disproportionate weight.
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-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#45 devilsrule33

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:58 AM

 

 

 

You're probably correct since he's now about to be coach of the Redskins :lol:

 

 

I can't even find Manta's post to quote. But he said Jay Gruden is overrated?

 

How do you know that? It's a little ridiculous to say which coordinators are underrated or overrated. How much input does he have in player personnel? How much input does he have in the kind of offense he runs? (many coordinators get overruled a lot by their coaches) Who the heck knows how any coordinator would look as a head coach or how they'd build a football team.

 

So many big time coordinators have failed as head coaches (anyone out of New England, Mike Martz, Lebau, Jauron, Phillips, Haley, Greg Williams, Garrett...and random hires have succeeded, alternatively (Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton Mike McCoy, Bruce Arians (well he got a rare chance to shine in Indy first, and took advantage of that, but nothing from his coaching career could have predicted that)


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#46 MantaRay

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:36 AM

My comments about Gruden lies in the fact he had personnel on offense that most teams would die for and still managed to make mediocre. He didn't prepare Dalton enough to make him a viable NFL QB.
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#47 NJDevs4978

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:42 AM

I can't even find Manta's post to quote. But he said Jay Gruden is overrated?

How do you know that? It's a little ridiculous to say which coordinators are underrated or overrated. How much input does he have in player personnel? How much input does he have in the kind of offense he runs? (many coordinators get overruled a lot by their coaches) Who the heck knows how any coordinator would look as a head coach or how they'd build a football team.

So many big time coordinators have failed as head coaches (anyone out of New England, Mike Martz, Lebau, Jauron, Phillips, Haley, Greg Williams, Garrett...and random hires have succeeded, alternatively (Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton Mike McCoy, Bruce Arians (well he got a rare chance to shine in Indy first, and took advantage of that, but nothing from his coaching career could have predicted that)


I lifted Manta's post from the playoff thread, I was more being flip since most Dan Snyder moves are invariably the wrong ones, though now that RG3 made this hire, who knows :P

It really is hard to tell how good he is as a coach given the talent they now have in Cincy, or whether Dalton's failures reflect coaching or his own shortcomings.
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The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#48 MantaRay

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:15 AM

I lifted Manta's post from the playoff thread, I was more being flip since most Dan Snyder moves are invariably the wrong ones, though now that RG3 made this hire, who knows :P

It really is hard to tell how good he is as a coach given the talent they now have in Cincy, or whether Dalton's failures reflect coaching or his own shortcomings.

 

The fact that Synder hired him: I rest my case.

 

A good OC will push his QB into beng mentally tough and streamlining a process to limit mistakes and turnovers.

 

Arians is a great example of an OC who teaches and gets the most out young QB's whether it Peyton Manning, Big Ben, or Andrew Luck.  He even got Tim Couch to the playoffs.


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#49 devilsrule33

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:28 AM

The fact that Synder hired him: I rest my case.

 

A good OC will push his QB into beng mentally tough and streamlining a process to limit mistakes and turnovers.

 

Arians is a great example of an OC who teaches and gets the most out young QB's whether it Peyton Manning, Big Ben, or Andrew Luck.  He even got Tim Couch to the playoffs.

 

Maybe he deserves credit for Dalton and the Bengals making the playoffs 3 straight years? Maybe a QB coach deserves to get some of the criticism you have...or maybe not? Who knows. Maybe they took Dalton as far as they could. And maybe Arians didn't do enough with a former 1st overall pick?

 

All a bunch of guesses.


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#50 devilsrule33

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:46 PM

As for my guess...I think Gruden did a great job overcoming the limitations of Dalton. 80/49 TD/INT ratio. Making the playoffs 3 straight years. That's doing enough in my book. Deserved a shot to be a head coach.


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#51 CarterforPresident

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:04 PM

Dalton people relax. Three years? He broke the franchise record for TDs and passing yards in a season and helped them into the post season. And he's young. He's a GREAT regular season qb as if now. It took Manning six years for his first playoff win and we know how good he is. Don't judge him in three years. Doesn't help he has a AJ Green(over rated),doesn't show up for games that matter. Give him time.
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#52 CRASHER

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:43 PM

You could just do away with divisions and go to a pure conference format.  Top 6 teams get in, end of story.  Everyone plays each team in their conference once (no more playing out-of-conference teams).  It all depends on how much you'd miss division rivalries.  It would seem silly to keep divisions alive if winning the division doesn't mean anything. 

 

Short answer:  not matter what system is used, there probably isn't one that will make everyone happy.  Me personally, I do like the division rivalries (there are some great ones), and playing four games out-of-conference per season, just because (facing some different teams).  Yeah, it sucks that crappy division winners sometimes get to host home games against teams that are clearly better, but as long as winning the division is supposed to have significance (even if the divison blows), then I don't see how division winners can have a "worthy" cutoff win total.    

 

EDIT:  just realized that playing every team in your conference once only leads to 15 games, and no way in hell the NFL is going to want LESS games on the schedule.  Maybe that 16th game could be the one out-of-conference game, and is based on the previous year's standings somehow.  Maybe the #1 overall AFC team plays the #1 overall NFC team based on the previous season (and so on, down the line)?   

 

Not saying I would want to see the above implemented...just brainstorming about how to get the top 6 teams (based on purely on record and tie-breakers) in. 

 

They were talking about this heavily on the NFL XM channel this week....it was good stuff....I'm all for it....you'd no longer have the "wah they won with a weak schedule" crap going around....yes you'd have a 16th (or 17th) game to deal with....but you can make it a "rival" game.....Dallas vs Houston, Giants and Jets, Steelers and Eagles, San Fran and Oakland....most teams have someone close enough that you could cross-pollenate effectively....well maybe not Seattle, but that can be worked around as well....I'd love to see it and then you can just stack the conference 1-6 (or 7) and move on!

 

As for my guess...I think Gruden did a great job overcoming the limitations of Dalton. 80/49 TD/INT ratio. Making the playoffs 3 straight years. That's doing enough in my book. Deserved a shot to be a head coach.

 

I'm leaning towards agreement ....and remember John Gruden won a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson and made Rich Gannon into a Super Bowl level QB, that's not too shabby either....neither were all-pros or gonna get a phone call from the HoF either....somewhere along the line you gota give them SOME credit, I guess we'll see about Jay Gruden now with how the Bengals do without him....and if he can hug it with Griffin :P


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#53 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:42 PM

They were talking about this heavily on the NFL XM channel this week....it was good stuff....I'm all for it....you'd no longer have the "wah they won with a weak schedule" crap going around....yes you'd have a 16th (or 17th) game to deal with....but you can make it a "rival" game.....Dallas vs Houston, Giants and Jets, Steelers and Eagles, San Fran and Oakland....most teams have someone close enough that you could cross-pollenate effectively....well maybe not Seattle, but that can be worked around as well....I'd love to see it and then you can just stack the conference 1-6 (or 7) and move on!

 

 

I'm leaning towards agreement ....and remember John Gruden won a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson and made Rich Gannon into a Super Bowl level QB, that's not too shabby either....neither were all-pros or gonna get a phone call from the HoF either....somewhere along the line you gota give them SOME credit, I guess we'll see about Jay Gruden now with how the Bengals do without him....and if he can hug it with Griffin :P

 

What also makes the "play everyone in your conference" concept interesting:

 

EVERY GAME except for the one out-of-conference game would be very important, as far as head-to-head tie-breakers go. 

 

The tie-breaker scenarios could REALLY get complicated under this model though.  Suppose you have four 8-8 teams, (Teams A, B, C and D) all of whom are going to have either 8-7 or 7-8 conference records...or even worse, imagine if ALL of them have identical conference records.  (One positive that comes out of playing four out-of-conference games is that it's much less likely that multiple teams who have the same overall record will have the same conference record.) 

 

Anyway, going with the whole Teams A, B, C, and D all finish 8-8 overall and 8-7 in the conference scenario:

Team A, in the course of the regular season, beat Teams B and C, but lost to D.

Team B lost to Team A, but beat C and D.

Team C lost to Teams A and B, but beat D. 

Team D beat Team A, but lost to B and C. 

 

Who the hell wins the tie-breaker here?  Team A beat Team B in head-to-head, but Team D beat Team A, and Team B and Team C beat Team D, but Team B beat Team C...this can get very complicated very quickly, especially for fans trying to figure out how their team gets into the playoffs for the last seed.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 09 January 2014 - 02:51 PM.

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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#54 CRASHER

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:02 PM

Heh....it does toss the "common opponents" out the window since they play the same schedule....if I know my playoff tie breakers stuff well, the next on the list is point differential....imagine that....last week of the year....Arizona needs to win by 20 to win a tiebreaker....that would be fascinating stuff there!! 

 

However in your scenario:

 


Anyway, going with the whole Teams A, B, C, and D all finish 8-8 overall and 8-7 in the conference scenario:

Team A, in the course of the regular season, beat Teams B and C, but lost to D.

Team B lost to Team A, but beat C and D.

Team C lost to Teams A and B, but beat D. 

Team D beat Team A, but lost to B and C.

 

A is 2-1

B is 2-1

C is 1-2

D is 1-2

 

you knock out C and D and then resolve with A and B....I would think at least


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TWO TIME (2005, 2006) Award Winner and the man who can show Jeremy Roenick what a REAL loudmouth is all about.... hell this mouth roars SO loud, they retired the DAMN AWARD!!!! But how do you be emotional about an award for being most emotional when you're sharing it?

2008 NJDevs Stanley Cup Winner for best overall poster... where's my damn ring?

June 6, 2007... the NHL dies just a little bit.....
.. April 20, 2008...it gets a little better :)

#55 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:27 PM

Heh....it does toss the "common opponents" out the window since they play the same schedule....if I know my playoff tie breakers stuff well, the next on the list is point differential....imagine that....last week of the year....Arizona needs to win by 20 to win a tiebreaker....that would be fascinating stuff there!! 

 

However in your scenario:

 

 

 

A is 2-1

B is 2-1

C is 1-2

D is 1-2

 

you knock out C and D and then resolve with A and B....I would think at least

 

Thought about that...that is one way you could resolve it (eveyone's records in the 12 games involving A, B, C, and D).  Team A would win head-to-head against B, but D would probably think "Hey, we beat A!"   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 04:16 PM

http://www.nfl.com/s...akingprocedures

 

Next tiebreaker is Strength of Victory, so that might knock someone out (they lose to the 11-5 team but beat the drecks).

 

Strength of Schedule is after that, but this probably couldn't be used anymore, since there's a 1 game difference between the teams.  Could you imagine how mad the New York media would go if the Giants went 9-7/8-8 but missed the playoffs because the Jets went 3-13 (or vice-versa)?

 

After that it's a combination of points scored and points allowed in the conference.  So teams with the highest positive point differential would win tiebreakers. 

 

After that it's "net" points, then net touchdowns, then coin tosses.

 

Also bear in mind, regarding the conference scheduling; the NFL is strongly talking about expansion in London and Los Angeles, so they COULD turn this into the MLB circa pre-21st century where you get 16 games intra-conference and no cross-conference games

 

And finally, bear in mind that if you absolutely NEED to manufacture conference rivalries, it is easily possible to move people across conferences when the realignment happens.


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#57 MantaRay

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:12 PM

NFL continues to water down the product with ideas like this.
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#58 MadDog2020

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:57 PM

Whisenhunt named head coach of the Titans: http://profootballta...ken-whisenhunt/


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#59 MantaRay

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:10 AM

Good for the Titans. Ironically, the Lions thought they had Wisenhunt and now may hire Munchek.
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Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

Caldwell is official as the Lions coach: http://www.nfl.com/n...s-as-next-coach


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Co-winner of the 2008-2009 UnderdogX Signature Award (Internet awards = serious business)


Devils Head Coach = More turnover than the Defense Against the Dark Arts post.


"congratulations, Value. Maximum Value was, apparantly, gaurenteed." -Martysb3tt3r

I will not remove this line from my signature until everyone alive realizes that
THE INTERNETS ARE SERIOUS BUSINESS KTHXBYE~!




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