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#341 MadDog2020

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:33 PM

I don't agree with this because Finland and the Swiss have actually been legit opponents for US and Canada at least this year. It's still a growing sport.

And Finland and Switzerland were so good, they got picked off by teams the US and Canada would wipe the floor with. In 2018 if some of these other countries can't compete, just stay home. Of course I want our girls to win, but its not even fun to watch at this rate.


There was a time when men's hockey was the same. I think in 10 years or less, we'll at least see a legit 4 team race in women's hockey.

I'll bet someone said that after 2006 too.


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#342 Mike Brown

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:33 PM

And Finland and Switzerland were so good, they got picked off by teams the US and Canada would wipe the floor with. In 2018 if some of these other countries can't compete, just stay home. Of course I want our girls to win, but its not even fun to watch at this rate.

 

Canada just beat the Swiss 3-1.  How is that wiping the floor?  The goalies Finland and the Swiss have are probably both better than the goalies the US and Canada have alone.  Give it time.  16 years isn't that long.


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#343 MadDog2020

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:37 PM

Canada just beat the Swiss 3-1. How is that wiping the floor? The goalies Finland and the Swiss have are probably both better than the goalies the US and Canada have alone. Give it time. 16 years isn't that long.

3-1 is progress. But I figured the Scandinavian countries would be further along at this point. Sweden embarrassed themselves this morning.


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#344 Marshall

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:40 PM

3-1 is progress. But I figured the Scandinavian countries would be further along at this point. Sweden embarrassed themselves this morning.

 

"Embarassed themselves" implies they can play better, which they really can't. 


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#345 MadDog2020

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:44 PM

"Embarassed themselves" implies they can play better, which they really can't.

True, perhaps that was a bit strong. I just figured 16 years into olympic competition, some of the other hockey countries would have been able to develop better women's talent to this point.


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#346 dmann422

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:26 PM

True, perhaps that was a bit strong. I just figured 16 years into olympic competition, some of the other hockey countries would have been able to develop better women's talent to this point.

I understand what you're saying but honestly is the men's all that different? IMO there are 4 teams that have legit shot at gold compared to two for the women. Anyone outside of those 4 winning would be a big upset IMO. Sure a team like the Czechs or Swiss might go on a run and get to a bronze medal game but even that's unlikely.

Heck go back and look at the first 6 Olympic men's ice hockey tournaments- Canada won 5 of them and silver once, with the US getting silver 3 times. So it's not unusual for one or two teams to dominate early in international competitions.
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#347 Mike Brown

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:57 PM

True, perhaps that was a bit strong. I just figured 16 years into olympic competition, some of the other hockey countries would have been able to develop better women's talent to this point.

 

16 years isn't a lot of time.  Look how long it's taking US Men's hockey to just get on par with Canada.  And we're still not equal to them.


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#348 MadDog2020

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:06 PM

16 years isn't a lot of time. Look how long it's taking US Men's hockey to just get on par with Canada. And we're still not equal to them.

We were a goal away from beating them on their soil for a gold medal 4 years ago. I'd say we're on par.


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#349 Mike Brown

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:08 PM

We were a goal away from beating them on their soil for a gold medal 4 years ago. I'd say we're on par.

 

I agree.  But my point was it took how many years to get there?  16 years isn't a lot of time to develop that much talent.


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#350 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:16 PM

16 years isn't a lot of time.  Look how long it's taking US Men's hockey to just get on par with Canada.  And we're still not equal to them.

 

We were a goal away from beating them on their soil for a gold medal 4 years ago. I'd say we're on par.

 

I agree.  But my point was it took how many years to get there?  16 years isn't a lot of time to develop that much talent.

 

So which is it Mike?  Are we still not equal to them or are we on par?  Jesus Christ.

 

Anyway, two golds for Canada in the last four Olympics, two silvers for the US.  One-goal loss for the US the last time.  Pretty close. 


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#351 CarterforPresident

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:18 PM

Glad I'm not the only one that just went on a mental rollercoaster with those posts there.

So which is it Mike? Are we still not equal to them or are we on par? Jesus Christ.

Anyway, two golds for Canada in the last four Olympics, two silvers for the US. One-goal loss for the US the last time. Pretty close.


Edited by CarterforPresident, 17 February 2014 - 08:18 PM.

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#352 MadDog2020

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:23 PM

In 16 years ONE of these other countries should have improved enough to actually beat the US and/or Canada. That's my point. Sweden, Finland, these are hockey countries. They should be better than this 16 years in. Instead, its been the same thing pretty much every olympics. It gets a little boring after a while. That said, hopefully we'll beat Canada this time. If we don't- see you again in 4 years for another gold medal game.


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#353 devilsrule33

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:44 PM

In 16 years ONE of these other countries should have improved enough to actually beat the US and/or Canada. That's my point. Sweden, Finland, these are hockey countries. They should be better than this 16 years in. Instead, its been the same thing pretty much every olympics. It gets a little boring after a while. That said, hopefully we'll beat Canada this time. If we don't- see you again in 4 years for another gold medal game.

 

I've been back and forth with this, but the Olympics is key to the growth of the Women's game. You need to play Canada and US to get better. There have been strides already.

 

In 2010, Canada and US combined for 73 GF and 3GA in the qualification round. This year it was 25 to 6 (granted Canada and US played each other this time around) Canada beat the Swiss 10-1 outshooting them 62-12. Today it was 3-1 for Canada, and the shots were 48-22.

 

It looks like Russia, the Swiss, and Finland continue to make noticeable strides. As long as you keep seeing these steps every 4 years, you keep the tournament as is. No crazy blowouts this time around.


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#354 Mike Brown

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:46 PM

So which is it Mike?  Are we still not equal to them or are we on par?  Jesus Christ.

 

Anyway, two golds for Canada in the last four Olympics, two silvers for the US.  One-goal loss for the US the last time.  Pretty close. 

 

Glad I'm not the only one that just went on a mental rollercoaster with those posts there.

 

Both of you need to go back reread the sequence of posts.

 

On Par and Equal do not mean the same thing.


Edited by Mike Brown, 17 February 2014 - 08:56 PM.

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#355 Mike Brown

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:55 PM

16 years isn't a lot of time.  Look how long it's taking US Men's hockey to just get on par with Canada.  And we're still not equal to them.

 

I specifically said we were ON PAR with them, but not EQUAL with them.

 

We were a goal away from beating them on their soil for a gold medal 4 years ago. I'd say we're on par.

 

This post is mainly half confirming what I said.  Unless he meant to use the term EQUAL instead, and used ON PAR by mistake.

 

I agree.  But my point was it took how many years to get there?  16 years isn't a lot of time to develop that much talent.

 

This is me agreeing with him when he said we were ON PAR with them.


Edited by Mike Brown, 17 February 2014 - 08:57 PM.

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#356 thefiestygoat

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:59 PM

I wish the women's games were more competitive though I wonder how much support the European countries give their women. Hockey Canada and USA Hockey have done a great job supporting their programs and organizing exhibitions between the two sides. The US women get what seems like a decent league like the NCAA to play in while they are still in college and I know only a few of the European women compete in it. I'm not sure how many of the Canadians play in the NCAA or if the CIS is suitable for women's hockey but whatever they do seems to be working. Of course once they burn their eligibility it becomes tougher but Canada and the US seem to have found a way to keep the players playing post-college. 

 

It seems like the infrastructure just isn't there for the European women to develop and play, while still be able to make a living in their own countries. Even the youth development probably is almost non-existent. Finnish goalie Noora Raty just retired from women's hockey citing financial reasons but she is hoping to catch on in a lower Finnish men's league. It's a shame since she is only 24 and has a lot of talent but that's the reality of the times.

 

It would be awesome if their was a women's league that was their version of the NHL for these players but it just doesn't seem possible. The NWHL only lasted from 1999-2007 and the CWHL doesn't seem like it can do a whole lot. 


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#357 MadDog2020

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:29 PM

I specifically said we were ON PAR with them, but not EQUAL with them.


This post is mainly half confirming what I said. Unless he meant to use the term EQUAL instead, and used ON PAR by mistake.


This is me agreeing with him when he said we were ON PAR with them.

I actually did mean to say 'equal', and I would have edited it but I can't edit using Tapatalk for some reason.


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#358 Mike Brown

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:38 PM

I actually did mean to say 'equal', and I would have edited it but I can't edit using Tapatalk for some reason.

 

In that case I don't agree, but we're pretty close.  We've never finished above Canada in any Olympics since NHL players have been participating.

 

1998: Canada 4th; USA 6th

2002: Canada 1st; USA 2nd

2006: Canada 7th; USA 8th

2010: Canada 1st; USA 2nd


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#359 SMantzas

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:34 PM

Didn't the WJC used to be a two team race back in the day? Women will catch up if given time
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#360 Mike Brown

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:51 PM

Didn't the WJC used to be a two team race back in the day? Women will catch up if given time

 

You're already starting to see signs of that.


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