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GDT: Stars @ Devils - 7:00PM


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#101 Triumph

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:23 PM

I understand the million and one good things we did last night (and have been doing for weeks, months now, frankly). This game is no different than at least a dozen of the 1-goal games we've lost. We've "outplayed" opponents in probably 3/4 of our losses honestly (or at least that's how I feel game after game; hey, we outplayed Chicago for most of that last game).

 

But at the end of 60 minutes we only score a goal, and if Schneider plays like anything short of the second coming of Christ, these are the types of games we've been losing 2-1, or in Overtime or in Shootout.

 

We need a 5-0 game with Schneider in net before I can feel confident we're going to make a run for a playoff; otherwise, as it stands now, I just have a feeling we have another month or two of tight 2-1/OT/Shootout-type losses, like December and November. Games like last night have turned on us dozens of times this year, I'm not satisfied with the win at all, and I hope DeBoer's saying the same thing to them in the locker room.

 

A 5-0 game?  You do realize those are seldom the result of the team playing like they deserve to win 5-0, right?   Most of the time that's one goalie playing terrible/one team getting all the bounces and one team's goalie playing great/not getting any bounces.

 

You outshoot teams 31-21 at even strength every night while tied/losing by 1 and you'll win more games than you lose.  A 5-0 game is one game.


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#102 dmann422

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:30 PM

Niedermayer was not that bad at the beginning of that year. But he continued to get worse - I have no idea how you can get 40% of the shots with Rolston and Clarkson on your line, but he did. Good lord.

Gionta's problem is no longer possession, it's that line is just not going to score anywhere close to NHL average without help from the percentages. Bernier's about a 6% shooter the last 4 years, Gionta is 6% lifetime, Carter is around NHL average - it's going to be a low-scoring line. It's tough to abide that when your top two lines aren't going to score like the average top two lines of an NHL team.

this is the problem we have, if we're not getting goals from the zajac line (and this past stretch we haven't), we are in trouble, more than most teams are when their top line isn't scoring. I just don't see the answer to the problem here- until Elias and Brunner come back, Pete will use the gionta line in a checking role.

We knew coming in that with our roster, our offensive strength needed to be in our scoring depth. With the injuries, the gionta line has once again been promoted to a pseudo 3rd/checking line role.
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#103 Mike Brown

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:30 PM

I understand the million and one good things we did last night (and have been doing for weeks, months now, frankly). This game is no different than at least a dozen of the 1-goal games we've lost. We've "outplayed" opponents in probably 3/4 of our losses honestly (or at least that's how I feel game after game; hey, we outplayed Chicago for most of that last game).

 

But at the end of 60 minutes we only score a goal, and if Schneider plays like anything short of the second coming of Christ, these are the types of games we've been losing 2-1, or in Overtime or in Shootout.

 

We need a 5-0 game with Schneider in net before I can feel confident we're going to make a run for a playoff; otherwise, as it stands now, I just have a feeling we have another month or two of tight 2-1/OT/Shootout-type losses, like December and November. Games like last night have turned on us dozens of times this year, I'm not satisfied with the win at all, and I hope DeBoer's saying the same thing to them in the locker room.

 

Well according to TG, Schneider is starting tomorrow night.  If we can't score at least 3 against the Panthers, then feel free to go on a rant.


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#104 Marshall

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:56 PM

point taken and I respect the stats and dont profess to know a lot about them, but look at the zone starts/finishes. We've already conceded the gionta line doesn't put shots in goal, so their Corsi will suffer, but they do posses the puck a lot, which is valuable protecting a lead.

 

dmann, in just about every case possessing the puck a lot = Corsi%. I think your statement is somewhat true for the entire team however - lots of time spent down low, lots of cycling and grinding but not many shots. 

 

As for zone starts/finish, they both end up around 50%. Unless I'm mistaken those tend to regress towards 50% (Patrick Kane for example has a 68% O-Zone start but 51% O-Zone finish. He's an OK player on an OK team).

 

It makes sense Gio has a worse CF cause look at the disparity between him and Sislo/Bouch in Offensive Zone/Defensive Zone starts.

 

Yes, Boucher & Sislo should be racking up good possession numbers given their zone starts. But Gionta gets favorable match-ups (relatively middle of the pack QoC) as a trade off to his zone starts. Obviously this has more to do with PDB (and Lou by extension) - it's not Gionta's fault that he's trotted out there to take defensive face offs. 

 

I just find it deplorable that the coach puts so much faith in a guy who is the worst forward and probably something like the 8th best center on the team.


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#105 dmann422

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:17 PM

dmann, in just about every case possessing the puck a lot = Corsi%. I think your statement is somewhat true for the entire team however - lots of time spent down low, lots of cycling and grinding but not many shots.

As for zone starts/finish, they both end up around 50%. Unless I'm mistaken those tend to regress towards 50% (Patrick Kane for example has a 68% O-Zone start but 51% O-Zone finish. He's an OK player on an OK team).


Right but isn't giontas more impressive considering he starts in the defensive end 70% of the time?

Also, I'm not necessarily saying gionta is the better player than the others, I'm only pointing out why I think Pete have him 17 mins of ice time in a game where we were protecting a one goal lead.

Edited by dmann422, 10 January 2014 - 02:18 PM.

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#106 SterioDesign

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:48 PM

There is no way that an NHL quality lineup should be constructed such that Stephen Gionta deserves 17 minutes of ice time.

 

considering he spent 4 minutes in the box too, then it would have been 21 minutes.


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#107 DJ Eco

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:53 PM

Well according to TG, Schneider is starting tomorrow night.  If we can't score at least 3 against the Panthers, then feel free to go on a rant.

 

I won't consider this game too easy, the Panthers have been giving just about everybody problems lately. I was more worried about that game than the Stars game, so hopefully we can put them away, we'll see!


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#108 NJDevs4978

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

That would be the second year in a row the fanbase lost it on a coach. But playing Niedermayer that much was not even close to what Sutter did in 2009.

Game 7 of the Canes series. There is so much wrong with this picture.

http://postimg.org/image/crq7zaa1x/


lol THAT I do remember well, the anti-Euro bias from Sutter (re: Elias and Zubrus), the fact the old man line got two shifts before ZZPops got one - which they scored on.
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#109 devilsrule33

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:16 PM

lol THAT I do remember well, the anti-Euro bias from Sutter (re: Elias and Zubrus), the fact the old man line got two shifts before ZZPops got one - which they scored on.

 

Well that is the most disappointing end to a season as a fan because that team had the potential to go toe-to-toe with Pitt. They were flying and just hit a bump, and Sutter couldn't get them out of it. He started overcoaching and matching lines with Pandolfo-Madden-Shanahan. So while the Devils had two awesome scoring lines, (including the 45 goal, 94 point season from Parise), they saw less ice time because the Canes put Eric Staal on the ice 24 minutes a game. Suddenly, you have Shanahan and Pandolfo playing more than a top 5 player in the league and John Madden (a player the Devils didn't even want to bring back in the off-season) leading the forwards in ice-time.

 

What's worse is that Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner were more than capable of going head-to-head against any top line


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#110 Mike Brown

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:39 PM

I won't consider this game too easy, the Panthers have been giving just about everybody problems lately. I was more worried about that game than the Stars game, so hopefully we can put them away, we'll see!

 

True, but quite frankly we have given teams a lot of problems as well.  If Thomas plays though, it might be even more challenging.


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#111 '7'

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:54 PM

Well that is the most disappointing end to a season as a fan because that team had the potential to go toe-to-toe with Pitt. They were flying and just hit a bump, and Sutter couldn't get them out of it. He started overcoaching and matching lines with Pandolfo-Madden-Shanahan. So while the Devils had two awesome scoring lines, (including the 45 goal, 94 point season from Parise), they saw less ice time because the Canes put Eric Staal on the ice 24 minutes a game. Suddenly, you have Shanahan and Pandolfo playing more than a top 5 player in the league and John Madden (a player the Devils didn't even want to bring back in the off-season) leading the forwards in ice-time.

 

What's worse is that Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner were more than capable of going head-to-head against any top line

 

Ultimately it came down to Brodeur stopping two stoppable shots....which he did not do. The recent winning goal from the Flyer game was similar to the Jokinen tying goal in 2009. Brodeur is too slow to get across and reads the play poorly.

 

but Elias ice time is ridiculous. Sutter was an atrocious coach, and a homesick man child crybaby.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why Claude Julien was fired.


Edited by '7', 10 January 2014 - 03:56 PM.

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#112 DevsMan84

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

Ultimately it came down to Brodeur stopping two stoppable shots....which he did not do. The recent winning goal from the Flyer game was similar to the Jokinen tying goal in 2009. Brodeur is too slow to get across and reads the play poorly.

 

but Elias ice time is ridiculous. Sutter was an atrocious coach, and a homesick man child crybaby.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why Claude Julien was fired.

 

Because a bratty clique within the Devils didn't like him.


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#113 Triumph

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:23 PM

Ultimately it came down to Brodeur stopping two stoppable shots....which he did not do. The recent winning goal from the Flyer game was similar to the Jokinen tying goal in 2009. Brodeur is too slow to get across and reads the play poorly.

 

but Elias ice time is ridiculous. Sutter was an atrocious coach, and a homesick man child crybaby.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why Claude Julien was fired.

 

Julien wasn't a great coach either.  That Devils' team's record was inflated by a number of things - Brodeur played well, the Devils got a bunch of goals late in games, and they were the best OT team in hockey.  They really weren't a top team or anything close that year.


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#114 ThreeCups

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:26 PM

I understand the million and one good things we did last night (and have been doing for weeks, months now, frankly). This game is no different than at least a dozen of the 1-goal games we've lost. We've "outplayed" opponents in probably 3/4 of our losses honestly (or at least that's how I feel game after game; hey, we outplayed Chicago for most of that last game).

 

But at the end of 60 minutes we only score a goal, and if Schneider plays like anything short of the second coming of Christ, these are the types of games we've been losing 2-1, or in Overtime or in Shootout.

 

We need a 5-0 game with Schneider in net before I can feel confident we're going to make a run for a playoff; otherwise, as it stands now, I just have a feeling we have another month or two of tight 2-1/OT/Shootout-type losses, like December and November. Games like last night have turned on us dozens of times this year, I'm not satisfied with the win at all, and I hope DeBoer's saying the same thing to them in the locker room.

 

This is the story of our season.

 

All gonna be nailbiters, let's just hope Cory Christ can keep it up...lol


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#115 DevsMan84

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:49 PM

Julien wasn't a great coach either.  That Devils' team's record was inflated by a number of things - Brodeur played well, the Devils got a bunch of goals late in games, and they were the best OT team in hockey.  They really weren't a top team or anything close that year.

 

Aren't those things considered having a good team?  You can say that about a lot of the top teams in the NHL now.


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#116 LucifersDog

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 05:20 PM


 

I just find it deplorable that the coach puts so much faith in a guy who is the worst forward and probably something like the 8th best center on the team.

 

Marshall, thank you, re: Gionta; I find it deplorable  for a coach to do this as well but I find it worse and more deplorable for a GM to allow this.


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