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Did I just hear Chico correctly?


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#81 Marshall

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:13 PM

If he gets 20 starts and goes 5-7-8 are we really going to piss and moan that we *maybe* could have squeezed 2-3 points out with a more qualified back up? 

 

3 points are kind of a big deal.


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#82 squishyx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:20 PM

I agree with your last paragraph to an extent, but another issue is that Kinkaid is having a great AHL year and will be 25. They may want to take their next step with him, or he may look elsewhere as well. If they honestly feel Schneider is the #1 after this season, it may be time for a clean break.

14-7 with a 2.18 and a .915% idk about great, certainly a good year. As you noted though he is 25, 26 by the time next year starts. Assuming we lock up Cory, I don't think any of the goalies we have in the system will be anything but footnote backups.

If we don't lock up Cory, then I'd definitely want to have Marty stick around while we cycle through an endless list of hopefuls.


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#83 squishyx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:23 PM

3 points are kind of a big deal.

In all likelihood it would be a hypothetical argument (in addition to this hypothetical... inception...). We would be debating weather Kincaid or Wedgewood would have gotten us those points. It would be a lot of conjecture but I doubt we would be able to conclude anything one way or the other. 


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#84 NJDevs4978

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:30 PM

Pete never acknowledged it, unless you think he has by starting him three in a row. Even Lou never really has publicly though he did call Cory a Top 5 goalie after the trade.
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#85 Triumph

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:18 PM

I don't ever want to see Marty in another sweater. He can back up here for 2,3,5 however many seasons he wants for all I care. Starting and finishing a career with a team has a certain special meaning for me, especially for a player of his caliber. I think it's part of the legend and it is diminished a little by closing out his last few chapters somewhere else.

Everyone (Marty, Lou, Pete, Cory) at some point as more or less acknowledged that Schneider is the new #1. This year is a bit of an anomaly as this is the first time Marty is truly sharing the net since the Terreri days. Next year will be a much cleaner transition if he does (hopefully) stay. As others noted, there's really no where for him to go and be a starter, might as well be a back up here then somewhere else. And to what harm really? If he gets 20 starts and goes 5-7-8 are we really going to piss and moan that we *maybe* could have squeezed 2-3 points out with a more qualified back up? 

 

This .900 stuff he's doing is the best he's got at this age.  Who is to say that will continue?  Grant Fuhr's final season in the NHL was with the Flames - he had an .856 SV% in 23 games.  In 99-2000.  League average was .904.  Relative to league average he cost the Flames 25 goals, that's between 4 and 5 wins.  That pretty much knocks a team out of the playoffs who isn't elite.

 

I'm not saying that will happen with Brodeur, but this is the best he's got now, and he's got nowhere to go but down.  What if Schneider got hurt?  Would Brodeur become the starter?   I'm not saying the Devils are necessarily ready to run with Kinkaid - he had a great first three months and has leveled off in January - but they can do better than Brodeur.  


Edited by Triumph, 13 January 2014 - 01:24 PM.

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#86 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:20 PM

I don't ever want to see Marty in another sweater. He can back up here for 2,3,5 however many seasons he wants for all I care. Starting and finishing a career with a team has a certain special meaning for me, especially for a player of his caliber. I think it's part of the legend and it is diminished a little by closing out his last few chapters somewhere else.

Everyone (Marty, Lou, Pete, Cory) at some point as more or less acknowledged that Schneider is the new #1. This year is a bit of an anomaly as this is the first time Marty is truly sharing the net since the Terreri days. Next year will be a much cleaner transition if he does (hopefully) stay. As others noted, there's really no where for him to go and be a starter, might as well be a back up here then somewhere else. And to what harm really? If he gets 20 starts and goes 5-7-8 are we really going to piss and moan that we *maybe* could have squeezed 2-3 points out with a more qualified back up? 

 

In bold...how would his playing a handful of games (in comparison to the number he's played for the Devils) for another team diminish his legend at all? 

 

You got to see him at his best.  You got to see him hoist three Cups, get to five Finals, win four Vezinas, break several goaltending records that may never be broken by anyone else. 

 

I don't need to see Marty stick around just so he can finish out his career as a Devils.  I don't want to see a guy who used to be one of the very best in the game struggling to hang on, even if it's in a backup role.  The organization is still trying to win games here, and I think the Devils have been as loyal to Marty as can be reasonably expected.  Take a poll of Devils fans before who were on board with Marty coming back on a two-year deal before he signed his last contract, and I'm guessing 90% or so would said "strongly in favor", even though his age made such a deal a significant risk.  If you took a poll now, asking if fans would want Marty back for next season on a one-year deal, I think it's pretty safe to say the "strongly in favor" percentage would be signficantly lower. 

 

Like DD56 says, sometimes, painful as it is to watch, a clean break is the best way to go.  Nothing against Marty in the slightest, but sometimes these guys simply can't or won't differentiate between what was and what is, and they put their GMs and ownerships into the uncomfortable position of either having to push them out as gently as possible, or even worse, force the team to flat-out say "No" to them.  I know quotes on paper can be twisted around, read into too much, picked apart to make people look bad, but I really don't want to hear Marty talk about 2014-15.  Worry about this year and the fact that you've been well below average for the balance of your past 11 games...and have now been a below-average NHL goaltender for much of this season and last.  He seems oblivious to this, and that goes back to the whole "can't differentiate between the present and the past" issue.  Even now, Marty probably still thinks he's the Devils' best goalie.  I know that kind of thinking comes with what makes the greats great in the first place, but the Devils shouldn't feel indebted to him forever. 


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#87 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:25 PM

This .900 stuff he's doing is the best he's got at this age.  Who is to say that will continue?  Grant Fuhr's final season in the NHL was with the Flames - he had an .856 SV% in 23 games.  In 99-2000.  League average was .904.  Relative to league average he cost the Flames 25 goals, that's between 4 and 5 wins.

 

I'm not saying that will happen with Brodeur, but this is the best he's got now, and he's got nowhere to go but down.  What if Schneider got hurt?  Would Brodeur become the starter?   I'm not saying the Devils are necessarily ready to run with Kinkaid - he had a great first three months and has leveled off in January - but they can do better than Brodeur.

 

In bold:  yes, this, right now he's performing on the outermost fringes of respectability overall (thanks to that .960ish five-game burst a while back).  I don't need to see it get worse.  Marty's has sustained stretches of sub-.880 save% goaltending this season and last...I don't need to see a full, 20-25 games or so season of that from him, so he can have another shutout or two in there somewhere and limp towards 700 wins.  I've got to think there's a veteran backup somewhere (if the Devils are unsure about Kinkaid) who can stop somewhere between 90.5% and 91.5% of the shots coming his way, who doesn't think of his being a backup as something temporary. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 13 January 2014 - 01:27 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#88 cgb6397

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 03:12 PM

Since Chico is the trend of this topic, I have to bring something up. Did anybody else hear him whisper to himself "dang!" after he fvcked up on the telestrator for like the 10th time that game. Oh my god I was crying, gotta love Chico


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#89 squishyx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 03:44 PM

This .900 stuff he's doing is the best he's got at this age.  Who is to say that will continue?  Grant Fuhr's final season in the NHL was with the Flames - he had an .856 SV% in 23 games.  In 99-2000.  League average was .904.  Relative to league average he cost the Flames 25 goals, that's between 4 and 5 wins.  That pretty much knocks a team out of the playoffs who isn't elite.

 

I'm not saying that will happen with Brodeur, but this is the best he's got now, and he's got nowhere to go but down.  What if Schneider got hurt?  Would Brodeur become the starter?   I'm not saying the Devils are necessarily ready to run with Kinkaid - he had a great first three months and has leveled off in January - but they can do better than Brodeur.  

Marty has show that he can still string together a set of decent games, I don't see how that changes with 1 or 2 years elapsed time, either we get that consistency or we don't. If Cory goes down for a couple weeks, I feel like we can weather the storm with him in net as well as any other back up. If he is out for serious time then we were probably screwed anyway. I think it's the exception and not the rule that teams recover missing their #1 for half a season.

Fuhrs career sv % was .887  and a gaa of 3.38, so his last seasons numbers aren't as bad relative to himself. In fact the best seasons he had statistically were 4 of his last 5 granted they were with STL.


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#90 squishyx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:04 PM

In bold...how would his playing a handful of games (in comparison to the number he's played for the Devils) for another team diminish his legend at all? 

 

You got to see him at his best.  You got to see him hoist three Cups, get to five Finals, win four Vezinas, break several goaltending records that may never be broken by anyone else. 

 

I don't need to see Marty stick around just so he can finish out his career as a Devils.  I don't want to see a guy who used to be one of the very best in the game struggling to hang on, even if it's in a backup role.  The organization is still trying to win games here, and I think the Devils have been as loyal to Marty as can be reasonably expected.  Take a poll of Devils fans before who were on board with Marty coming back on a two-year deal before he signed his last contract, and I'm guessing 90% or so would said "strongly in favor", even though his age made such a deal a significant risk.  If you took a poll now, asking if fans would want Marty back for next season on a one-year deal, I think it's pretty safe to say the "strongly in favor" percentage would be signficantly lower. 

 

Like DD56 says, sometimes, painful as it is to watch, a clean break is the best way to go.  Nothing against Marty in the slightest, but sometimes these guys simply can't or won't differentiate between what was and what is, and they put their GMs and ownerships into the uncomfortable position of either having to push them out as gently as possible, or even worse, force the team to flat-out say "No" to them.  I know quotes on paper can be twisted around, read into too much, picked apart to make people look bad, but I really don't want to hear Marty talk about 2014-15.  Worry about this year and the fact that you've been well below average for the balance of your past 11 games...and have now been a below-average NHL goaltender for much of this season and last.  He seems oblivious to this, and that goes back to the whole "can't differentiate between the present and the past" issue.  Even now, Marty probably still thinks he's the Devils' best goalie.  I know that kind of thinking comes with what makes the greats great in the first place, but the Devils shouldn't feel indebted to him forever. 

Look we could debate all day about how to quantify his "legendary-ness" and probably never agree. It's subjective, for sure.

For me personally, I think it's a little more special when an athlete begins and end his career with just a single team. I'm not even sure I can explain why, but It just feels right. I was never a big Daneyko fan when he played, but I'll always have a fondness for him because he stayed here for his entire tenure. When I think of a player who embodies the NJ Devils, I think of Daneyko, Broduer, Elias before I think of Niedermayer, Raflaski, Driver.

If this board was any indicator, I doubt it was ever 90%. But sure, that seems natural. You are only likely the lose favor over time, he isn't going to get better so any desire to resign him year after year is just going to go down. But I'm just not there yet. I think Marty has enough left in the tank to be a serviceable back up that at best will be as good as any other back up out there, and at worst, slightly below them. He's currently 17th in GAA, 35th in SV%  and he's also got 3 shutouts on the year. Those are better stats then some other teams starters, I think it's more then acceptable for a back up.

I also agree, the Devils are not indebted to Marty forever, but this is really the first year in over 20 years where it's even been a debate about who is our number 1 goaltender. I think he deserves a little slack for comments he makes or whatever. 


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#91 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:06 PM

Marty has show that he can still string together a set of decent games, I don't see how that changes with 1 or 2 years elapsed time, either we get that consistency or we don't. If Cory goes down for a couple weeks, I feel like we can weather the storm with him in net as well as any other back up. If he is out for serious time then we were probably screwed anyway. I think it's the exception and not the rule that teams recover missing their #1 for half a season.

Fuhrs career sv % was .887  and a gaa of 3.38, so his last seasons numbers aren't as bad relative to himself. In fact the best seasons he had statistically were 4 of his last 5 granted they were with STL.

 

But Marty will want another 4-5 million to hopefully string together some decent games. It gets to a point where it isn't worth it. It's also piling more pressure onto Corey, who obviously can't get a fair shot at the job when Marty is around. There's too much sentimentality involved in Marty's playing time, and he's being pretty badly outplayed by Corey this season.

 

Fuhr also played most of his career in one of the higher scoring times in NHL history for a team that didn't bother playing defense. By the time he retired, the league had changed a lot and .887 was no longer acceptable, much like .902 isn't so great now.


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#92 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:11 PM

Look we could debate all day about how to quantify his "legendary-ness" and probably never agree. It's subjective, for sure.

For me personally, I think it's a little more special when an athlete begins and end his career with just a single team. I'm not even sure I can explain why, but It just feels right. I was never a big Daneyko fan when he played, but I'll always have a fondness for him because he stayed here for his entire tenure. When I think of a player who embodies the NJ Devils, I think of Daneyko, Broduer, Elias before I think of Niedermayer, Raflaski, Driver.

If this board was any indicator, I doubt it was ever 90%. But sure, that seems natural. You are only likely the lose favor over time, he isn't going to get better so any desire to resign him year after year is just going to go down. But I'm just not there yet. I think Marty has enough left in the tank to be a serviceable back up that at best will be as good as any other back up out there, and at worst, slightly below them. He's currently 17th in GAA, 35th in SV%  and he's also got 3 shutouts on the year. Those are better stats then some other teams starters, I think it's more then acceptable for a back up.

I also agree, the Devils are not indebted to Marty forever, but this is really the first year in over 20 years where it's even been a debate about who is our number 1 goaltender. I think he deserves a little slack for comments he makes or whatever. 

 

If he decides to leave, he leaves. There's nothing much you can do about it. Guy Lafluer will always be known as a Canadien, Bobby Hull will always be a Blackhawk, Bobby Orr will always be known as a Bruin, and Marty will always be remembered as a Devil.


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#93 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:13 PM

Marty has show that he can still string together a set of decent games, I don't see how that changes with 1 or 2 years elapsed time, either we get that consistency or we don't. If Cory goes down for a couple weeks, I feel like we can weather the storm with him in net as well as any other back up. If he is out for serious time then we were probably screwed anyway. I think it's the exception and not the rule that teams recover missing their #1 for half a season.

Fuhrs career sv % was .887  and a gaa of 3.38, so his last seasons numbers aren't as bad relative to himself. In fact the best seasons he had statistically were 4 of his last 5 granted they were with STL.

 

Fuhr played in the thick of the Live Puck Era, in his prime, on possibly THE most offensive-minded team ever.  Goalies were consistently getting better throughout the 90s too...Fuhr was terrific in his heyday, but there was some pretty bad goaltending in the 80s.  

 

Problem with Marty the last couple of seasons is yeah, he MAY be able to string some decent, even terrific games together, but you have no idea when he's going to be able to do it, you definitely can't count on him to do it, and even worse, when he's bad at stopping pucks, he's just about as bad as an NHL goaltender gets in today's NHL gets.  That six-game burst from 10/29 to 11/26 is propping up his whole season.  His save% in the other 19 games?  .884.  Remember how hard Johan Hedberg was to watch last season?  He put up an .883 save% last year.

 

Going back to last season, in Marty's last 14 games of 2013, he put up an .882 save%. 

 

So basically, in Marty's last 39 GP, here's what you have:

 

10/29 to 11/26:  6 GP, 138 Shots Faced, 133 Saves, .964 save%

the other 33 GP:  756 Shots Faced, 668 Saves, .8835 save%

 

The numbers don't lie...Marty is far more likely to be an .880s guy at this point in his career, and waiting/hoping for another streak of NHL average play or better (when he's been far below that for most of his last 39 GP) seems counterproductive.  Sadly, for all we know, we may have seen that last bit of greatness he had in those six late October-to-early-November games.  There may simply not be much left. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 13 January 2014 - 04:38 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#94 squishyx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:15 PM

But Marty will want another 4-5 million to hopefully string together some decent games. It gets to a point where it isn't worth it. It's also piling more pressure onto Corey, who obviously can't get a fair shot at the job when Marty is around. There's too much sentimentality involved in Marty's playing time, and he's being pretty badly outplayed by Corey this season.

 

Fuhr also played most of his career in one of the higher scoring times in NHL history for a team that didn't bother playing defense. By the time he retired, the league had changed a lot and .887 was no longer acceptable, much like .902 isn't so great now.

Well I can agree there. I'm not about extorting the team to accommodate Marty. If he thinks he is going to get a 3 year 4m deal anywhere that's one thing. But he if he is determined to play in the NHL and wants to sign a 1-2 year deal at 2, 2.5 million, considering we will need a back up anyway, I think that works for all parties involved.

I like Schneider, I am glad we got him, but this board needs to stop coddling him. He's not that fragile. We all talk about doing whats best for the team, and while Cory has pretty much had better numbers all year long, there was a long stretch where we won with Marty and not with Cory. Whether that's fair or not isn't really the question, maybe the team was nervous not having Marty in net, maybe his puck handling skills made a difference, maybe it's the way to he moons aligned on Jupiter, doesn't matter. We were winning when Marty was between the pipes and if you value the logo on the from more then the name on the back then you don't mind sitting until the winds start blowing the other direction; and now that they have I think it's Cory's job to lose. He's played outstanding these last few games, and as long as he continues to do so he's going to get the majority of starts.

 

And Tri picked Fuhr. I was just keeping his numbers in perspective.


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#95 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:27 PM

Well I can agree there. I'm not about extorting the team to accommodate Marty. If he thinks he is going to get a 3 year 4m deal anywhere that's one thing. But he if he is determined to play in the NHL and wants to sign a 1-2 year deal at 2, 2.5 million, considering we will need a back up anyway, I think that works for all parties involved.

I like Schneider, I am glad we got him, but this board needs to stop coddling him. He's not that fragile. We all talk about doing whats best for the team, and while Cory has pretty much had better numbers all year long, there was a long stretch where we won with Marty and not with Cory. Whether that's fair or not isn't really the question, maybe the team was nervous not having Marty in net, maybe his puck handling skills made a difference, maybe it's the way to he moons aligned on Jupiter, doesn't matter. We were winning when Marty was between the pipes and if you value the logo on the from more then the name on the back then you don't mind sitting until the winds start blowing the other direction; and now that they have I think it's Cory's job to lose. He's played outstanding these last few games, and as long as he continues to do so he's going to get the majority of starts.

 

And Tri picked Fuhr. I was just keeping his numbers in perspective.

 

At low money, like 2-2.5 million, I'd be more receptive to him returning. For all we know, this will be moot and he'll decide his body is done, of course.


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#96 squishyx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:27 PM

If he decides to leave, he leaves. There's nothing much you can do about it. Guy Lafluer will always be known as a Canadien, Bobby Hull will always be a Blackhawk, Bobby Orr will always be known as a Bruin, and Marty will always be remembered as a Devil.

I guess. I'm to young to really remember most of those guys, but as a counter I'll always remember Niedermayer, bourque, Messier, Gretzky et all as great players who left their original team for one reason or another. And if Marty backs up Price for two years to finish our his career I will always remember that too. I understand that it's normal for lots of players to bounce around during their careers, often to no fault of their own. So maybe that's just makes it special, it's so rare to have a player dominate his positon for so long, set all the records, and do 100% for one team. not 96%.

And yes, I am well aware that I have no control over the actual situation. Just a fan sharing his opinion. 


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#97 Triumph

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

Well I can agree there. I'm not about extorting the team to accommodate Marty. If he thinks he is going to get a 3 year 4m deal anywhere that's one thing. But he if he is determined to play in the NHL and wants to sign a 1-2 year deal at 2, 2.5 million, considering we will need a back up anyway, I think that works for all parties involved.

I like Schneider, I am glad we got him, but this board needs to stop coddling him. He's not that fragile. We all talk about doing whats best for the team, and while Cory has pretty much had better numbers all year long, there was a long stretch where we won with Marty and not with Cory. Whether that's fair or not isn't really the question, maybe the team was nervous not having Marty in net, maybe his puck handling skills made a difference, maybe it's the way to he moons aligned on Jupiter, doesn't matter. We were winning when Marty was between the pipes and if you value the logo on the from more then the name on the back then you don't mind sitting until the winds start blowing the other direction; and now that they have I think it's Cory's job to lose. He's played outstanding these last few games, and as long as he continues to do so he's going to get the majority of starts.

 

And Tri picked Fuhr. I was just keeping his numbers in perspective.

 

Fuhr was an extreme example, but you can go down the line - Roloson, Osgood, Hedberg, Joseph, Theodore, Turco - guys are effective until they're not, and sometimes they can become really ineffective.  Brodeur would likely be facing involuntary retirement if he didn't have the record he has over the years previous to the last 4, but those great years don't matter much.  What matters is his results over the last 4 years, which are not good, and are likely to become worse.


Edited by Triumph, 13 January 2014 - 04:32 PM.

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#98 squishyx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:46 PM

Fuhr was an extreme example, but you can go down the line - Roloson, Osgood, Hedberg, Joseph, Theodore, Turco - guys are effective until they're not, and sometimes they can become really ineffective.  Brodeur would likely be facing involuntary retirement if he didn't have the record he has over the years previous to the last 4, but those great years don't matter much.  What matters is his results over the last 4 years, which are not good, and are likely to become worse.

Roy, Belfore, Khabibulin Vernon, Hasek, Vokoun, Richter. All guys with 600+ games played who were effective basically until the retired. who went out with good or moderate seasons, certainly good enough to qualify them as a back up. Maybe they knew when to quit, and I have no issues if Marty hangs em up after this season, but again his numbers this year are not great, but more then sufficient for a back up spot. Maybe next year is the year his stats plummet, maybe it's 4 years from now, either way we do need 'a' back up, for my money it might as well be him.


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#99 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:49 PM

I guess. I'm to young to really remember most of those guys, but as a counter I'll always remember Niedermayer, bourque, Messier, Gretzky et all as great players who left their original team for one reason or another. And if Marty backs up Price for two years to finish our his career I will always remember that too. I understand that it's normal for lots of players to bounce around during their careers, often to no fault of their own. So maybe that's just makes it special, it's so rare to have a player dominate his positon for so long, set all the records, and do 100% for one team. not 96%.

And yes, I am well aware that I have no control over the actual situation. Just a fan sharing his opinion. 

 

I understand the feeling. I'd prefer he played every single game of his career as a Devil (and won that 2001 Cup and 2003 Smythe haha). I just think Brodeur is making it very hard for the Devils to allow him to finish up here. It's painful to watch a legend just barely scrape by.


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#100 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:54 PM

Fuhr was an extreme example, but you can go down the line - Roloson, Osgood, Hedberg, Joseph, Theodore, Turco - guys are effective until they're not, and sometimes they can become really ineffective.  Brodeur would likely be facing involuntary retirement if he didn't have the record he has over the years previous to the last 4, but those great years don't matter much.  What matters is his results over the last 4 years, which are not good, and are likely to become worse.

 

If Marty didn't have that 6-game burst that ended as abruptly as it started, and had a season of save% in the .880-.890 range, there'd be a lot more fans calling for him to hang 'em up.  Those 6 games bought him a lot of currency this season (because deep down, Devils fans still want to see him succeed, see him have one more shutout, one more burst of games where he looks like Marty of old).  The fact that the Devils happened to win some of his more "meh" games bought him even more currency with PDB.  But yeah, the last 11 games for Marty have been rough, most of the last 39 games have, and all signs point to him no longer being effective sooner than later.  He's a former .340 hitter who now hits around .220 but has an occasional 4-for-4 day, or a 5-for-12 burst.  Those are fun to watch when they happen, but they require getting through a lot of 0-fers. 

 

 

Roy, Belfore, Khabibulin Vernon, Hasek, Vokoun, Richter. All guys with 600+ games played who were effective basically until the retired. who went out with good or moderate seasons, certainly good enough to qualify them as a back up. Maybe they knew when to quit, and I have no issues if Marty hangs em up after this season, but again his numbers this year are not great, but more then sufficient for a back up spot. Maybe next year is the year his stats plummet, maybe it's 4 years from now, either way we do need 'a' back up, for my money it might as well be him.

 

Even WITH the out-of-nowhere hot streak Marty had, his save% over his last 39 games is still just .896.  That would rank him 43rd out of 46 qualifiers this year in save%.  That's not really sufficient.  And like Tri pointed out, Heaven forbid Schneider ever got hurt next season.  You might be watching something not much better than 2013 Hedberg if Marty was forced into being the starter.  I definitely don't ever want to see that.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 13 January 2014 - 04:55 PM.

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