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GDT: Devils @ Leafs 1/12- 7pm EST


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#161 mrthemike

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:04 AM

I think 95 points is what it'll take to get in the playoffs.  If we do any of the following, we will get to that 95 point plateau.

 

23-11-1

22-10-3

21-9-5

20-8-7

19-7-9

18-6-11

17-5-13

16-4-15

15-3-17

14-2-19

13-1-21

12-0-23


 

Clowe is good in the shootout.  He was at 40% before this year.

 

 

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#162 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:34 AM

What about the points they're grabbing by not being behind after 60 minutes?

 

Problem is that this isn't good enough.  The Devils continue to hover around NHL .500.  Still no signs that they'll be able to be much better than that.  Obviously the first problem is that they've become shootout-impotent, and last night's shootout showed me that this issue is now firmly in the minds of the shooters (Jagr looked like he was overthinking in a big way)...basically, if the other team gets a 1-0 lead in the shootout in Round 1, it's pretty much game over at this point.  (At least the Devils aren't alone in shootout ineptitude...Detroit is 1-7 in them.)

 

The sad thing is that the Devils are getting more offense out of their defenseman than they have in years.  They've gotten 21 goals from their D this year, after getting 13 from their D in last year's 48 games.  They're getting considerably better goaltending overall...Marty's numbers are pretty similar to last season's (as in not very good), but Schneider's numbers are a quantum leap over what Hedberg provided.  Forwards like Henrique, Ryder, and Brunner get hot on occasion, but it seems like when one or two guys get it going, none of the other forwards keep it going.  Zajac becoming on offensive afterthought really hurts.   

 

Right now, the Devils look like an 82-86 point team.  They're going to need at least 90 points to grab a playoff berth.  Funny thing is, if they make it, they can probably do some damage if Schneider gets hot and is the undisputed #1 goalie, and Elias is back in the lineup and healthy.  But they've got to get in first.  The Devils are 7-3-4 in their last 14 GP (.643 point%)...if they could do something similar over their next 14 GP, I'll start to feel better about their playoff hopes. 


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#163 dmann422

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:53 AM

I can't understand why Salvador and gionta are constantly the goats around here after every loss. Salvador had one fluke turnover and it leads to a goal, gelinas gets coned multiple times (once by the immortal stick handler David clarkson) and he's fortunate enough that Cory makes a good save.

All this is ignoring the true problem that we have scored 17 regulation goals in our last 10 games. You will not win many nhl games with that offensive production.

As much as we love zubie-zajac-jagr around here that line has completely dried up, and if we want to start winning consistently we need our top line to produce.
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#164 SterioDesign

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:07 AM

I can't understand why Salvador and gionta are constantly the goats around here after every loss. Salvador had one fluke turnover and it leads to a goal, gelinas gets coned multiple times (once by the immortal stick handler David clarkson) and he's fortunate enough that Cory makes a good save.

All this is ignoring the true problem that we have scored 17 regulation goals in our last 10 games. You will not win many nhl games with that offensive production.

As much as we love zubie-zajac-jagr around here that line has completely dried up, and if we want to start winning consistently we need our top line to produce.

 

that could be part of why. I dont feel Salvador is bringing as much "good defence" and he's not bringing any offence or transition game either and he's done. At least Gelinas is doing that and he'll only get better so i feel like giving him a pass


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#165 dmann422

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:03 AM

that could be part of why. I dont feel Salvador is bringing as much "good defence" and he's not bringing any offence or transition game either and he's done. At least Gelinas is doing that and he'll only get better so i feel like giving him a pass

I won't pretend that salvador is an offensive dynamo, but there is a misconception that gelinas brings a ton off offense. The magic he had when he first came up has cooled off.

His shot is nice, but he only has 15 shots in his last 10 games. If he is supposed to be an offensive specialist (that's what Pete has essentially used him as), that's not gonna cut it, especially whe he is below average in the defensive zone.
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#166 SterioDesign

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:12 AM

I won't pretend that salvador is an offensive dynamo, but there is a misconception that gelinas brings a ton off offense. The magic he had when he first came up has cooled off.

His shot is nice, but he only has 15 shots in his last 10 games. If he is supposed to be an offensive specialist (that's what Pete has essentially used him as), that's not gonna cut it, especially whe he is below average in the defensive zone.

 

the magic was only that it was going in, he made some really good plays actually deking guys and getting in good positions last night. Made a great play in OT and got a good shot. There's no way in a million year Salvador could have done something like that. 

 

Not always about stats but a good shot can result in a rebound, faceoff in the offensive zone, etc etc.


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#167 Marshall

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

the magic was only that it was going in, he made some really good plays actually deking guys and getting in good positions last night. Made a great play in OT and got a good shot. There's no way in a million year Salvador could have done something like that. 

 

Not always about stats but a good shot can result in a rebound, faceoff in the offensive zone, etc etc.

 

He made lots of good plays and he did things (ie shooting) that lead to other good things, like the ones you mention at the end. 

 

If Gelinas had kept up his shooting (good things would most likely continue to happen) people wouldn't be talking about his "defensive slump". His offense disappeared and then people started talking about the defense.


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#168 dmann422

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:26 AM

the magic was only that it was going in, he made some really good plays actually deking guys and getting in good positions last night. Made a great play in OT and got a good shot. There's no way in a million year Salvador could have done something like that.

Not always about stats but a good shot can result in a rebound, faceoff in the offensive zone, etc etc.

in overtime with more room gelinas looks great, but it's not a coincidence that he sat for ten minutes straight in the third...

We can agree to disagree on this, and again I'm not trying to knock gelinas because I think he can be useful, I just find it confusing how Salvador gets so much heat when he wasn't nearly the worst defensemen in the ice.

I suspect it has to do with the shiny new toy syndrome that gelinas has going for him.
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#169 Marshall

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:29 AM


We can agree to disagree on this, and again I'm not trying to knock gelinas because I think he can be useful, I just find it confusing how Salvador gets so much heat when he wasn't nearly the worst defensemen in the ice.

I suspect it has to do with the shiny new toy syndrome that gelinas has going for him.

 

The contract, the captaincy and the knowledge that when it really falls of a cliff, it'll be fast and brutal. If Sal was on his last year and not carrying a letter I don't think people would care as much.


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#170 SterioDesign

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:34 AM

in overtime with more room gelinas looks great, but it's not a coincidence that he sat for ten minutes straight in the third...

We can agree to disagree on this, and again I'm not trying to knock gelinas because I think he can be useful, I just find it confusing how Salvador gets so much heat when he wasn't nearly the worst defensemen in the ice.

I suspect it has to do with the shiny new toy syndrome that gelinas has going for him.

 

It has nothing to do with Gelinas really.

 

Salvador has a C on his chest, a bad contract, can't produce or bring any transition, doesn't make other players around him better. Team was actually doing better with him outside of the lineup. We have another identical kind of player in the lineup too. 

 

How can we possibly have some kind of transition game when we have a pairing of Sal /Volchenkov? Guys have to run after a bouncing puck coming off the glass or rush for a slapper around the boards from the red line. Thats all they can do. 

 

Plus when we can finally settle in the offensive zone and work hard on the boards to finally get the puck to the point, it goes to one of them. Which is where pucks goes to die. It's killing the play. And DeBoer is playing them a lot so its a good chunk of the game that we know we wont produce much. If there's no transition the forwards can't do much.

 

If they be like, unfvcking real defensive players shutting down everything, well fine we could make a point. But no they are not.


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#171 Sneax

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:37 AM

in overtime with more room gelinas looks great, but it's not a coincidence that he sat for ten minutes straight in the third...

We can agree to disagree on this, and again I'm not trying to knock gelinas because I think he can be useful, I just find it confusing how Salvador gets so much heat when he wasn't nearly the worst defensemen in the ice.

I suspect it has to do with the shiny new toy syndrome that gelinas has going for him.

 

 

The reason he hasn't done as much latley is because teams are setting out to take away space from him. His shot is such a threat, that teams are moving guys higher up to try negate it.

 

Apparently he hasn't been able to create space despite that, but it does other good things for the team. While the opposition is focused on trying to stop him, it gives other guys room.

 

 

 

Salvador is 1 dimensional, and he's probably the worst defensive defensemen we have on the ice right now.


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#172 Devilsfan118

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:39 AM

I can't understand why Salvador and gionta are constantly the goats around here after every loss. Salvador had one fluke turnover and it leads to a goal, gelinas gets coned multiple times (once by the immortal stick handler David clarkson) and he's fortunate enough that Cory makes a good save.

All this is ignoring the true problem that we have scored 17 regulation goals in our last 10 games. You will not win many nhl games with that offensive production.

As much as we love zubie-zajac-jagr around here that line has completely dried up, and if we want to start winning consistently we need our top line to produce.

 

The offense is definitely a concern, that should be apparent to anyone watching the games.  The team can't score, no denying it.

 

But the problem with Salvador isn't just the glaring stuff (he had the one big one last night, obviously), but he does a lot of little things that subtly hurt the team, in my opinion.  He can't make a breakout pass, he can't hit the net (he just throws it into a corner whenever it comes to him), he's become unreliable in his own end..

 

He's essentially always been an offensive black hole, but now he's not holding his own in the D zone.  I almost prefer he not be used on the PK anymore, to be honest.

 

Gelinas is a rookie, he's going to make stupid mistakes.  I'm okay with him learning the game as we go - as I am with Merril and Larsson.  But when you see a veteran who's supposed to bring 'leadership' to the team continuously do stupid sh!t.. it makes you wonder

 

Edit:  Great points by Marshall, SD and Sneax.  SD really hit the nail on the head.


Edited by Devilsfan118, 13 January 2014 - 10:41 AM.

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#173 SterioDesign

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:56 AM

i mean if we're gonna have strictly defensive guys i'd like them to be younger and fast AT LEAST. Guys like Georges, Hjalmarsson, Girardi, Vlasic, Hamonic, Hamhuis etc etc.

 

Santini could be one i guess, thats good news on that. But with defensive dmen you kind of need good experience too, our guys have that but the body doesnt follow.


Edited by SterioDesign, 13 January 2014 - 10:59 AM.

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#174 Triumph

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:14 AM

Salvador made one really glaring bad play and so it's time to kill him - I don't even think that play was really his fault either, Clowe shouldn't be there - it was going to be a nice breakout until that happened.

 

He's playing better than last year, that's for sure.  Find it funny no one is mentioning Gelinas being turned inside out by Clarkson, but that's probably because it isn't even noteworthy - someone turns Gelinas inside out every game these days.


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#175 dmann422

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:20 AM

i mean if we're gonna have strictly defensive guys i'd like them to be younger and fast AT LEAST. Guys like Georges, Hjalmarsson, Girardi, Vlasic, Hamonic, Hamhuis etc etc.

Santini could be one i guess, thats good news on that. But with defensive dmen you kind of need good experience too, our guys have that but the body doesnt follow.

most of these guys are top 2 or three defensmen on their teams. It's unfair to compare volchenkov and Salvador to them, they're both 3rd pairing guys for us at this point.

Difficult to respond to everyone on my phone so I'll just say in general I appreciate a critical analysis of a player's performance like sterio gave, the problem I had earlier were comments like "strip him of the c and give it to greene" or "just retire already" - it's unfortunate that decent discussion gets clouded by these types of posts.
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#176 DJ Eco

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

My response here (from after the 1-0 win vs. Dallas) still stands:

 

http://www.njdevs.co...32963&p=1237475

 

You all disagreed and took me down a peg, because we won then, but are pretty much saying the same things, because we lost in a shootout, thus proving my point. 

 

I won't be satisfied til we rout an opponent or two twice in the next week or so, 4-1 or 5-2 with Schneider in net. I'm not satisified with the odd 2-1 or 1-0 result, it's just a continuation of the issues that have plagued us the entire season, which is getting close to 2 points and not finishing enough to get them.


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#177 Triumph

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:24 AM

Problem is that this isn't good enough.  The Devils continue to hover around NHL .500.  Still no signs that they'll be able to be much better than that.  Obviously the first problem is that they've become shootout-impotent, and last night's shootout showed me that this issue is now firmly in the minds of the shooters (Jagr looked like he was overthinking in a big way)...basically, if the other team gets a 1-0 lead in the shootout in Round 1, it's pretty much game over at this point.  (At least the Devils aren't alone in shootout ineptitude...Detroit is 1-7 in them.)

 

The sad thing is that the Devils are getting more offense out of their defenseman than they have in years.  They've gotten 21 goals from their D this year, after getting 13 from their D in last year's 48 games.  They're getting considerably better goaltending overall...Marty's numbers are pretty similar to last season's (as in not very good), but Schneider's numbers are a quantum leap over what Hedberg provided.  Forwards like Henrique, Ryder, and Brunner get hot on occasion, but it seems like when one or two guys get it going, none of the other forwards keep it going.  Zajac becoming on offensive afterthought really hurts.   

 

Right now, the Devils look like an 82-86 point team.  They're going to need at least 90 points to grab a playoff berth.  Funny thing is, if they make it, they can probably do some damage if Schneider gets hot and is the undisputed #1 goalie, and Elias is back in the lineup and healthy.  But they've got to get in first.  The Devils are 7-3-4 in their last 14 GP (.643 point%)...if they could do something similar over their next 14 GP, I'll start to feel better about their playoff hopes. 

 

NJ has played 4 straight games getting 30+ shots and they haven't trailed significantly in any of these games.  It's starting to turn for them, ever so slowly, but it is turning.  And indeed, the more games Schneider starts, the better the defense will be.  I don't really know how this looks like an 82-86 point team.

 

The other thing you have to consider is the schedule, which does not feature any more games with the Blackhawks, Kings, or Ducks, but does feature 3 more with the Washington Capitals, for example.


Edited by Triumph, 13 January 2014 - 11:32 AM.

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#178 SterioDesign

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:32 AM

most of these guys are top 2 or three defensmen on their teams. It's unfair to compare volchenkov and Salvador to them, they're both 3rd pairing guys for us at this point.

Difficult to respond to everyone on my phone so I'll just say in general I appreciate a critical analysis of a player's performance like sterio gave, the problem I had earlier were comments like "strip him of the c and give it to greene" or "just retire already" - it's unfortunate that decent discussion gets clouded by these types of posts.

 

I'm simply gonna have to spot using players are vague examples... every single time i do people jump and focus 100% on names. 

 

All i said is that i'd like to have young and fast defensive dmen if we had to instead of slow over the hill guys. Simply named those guys cause they we're young, fast and defensive minded. Not comparing players for players.


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#179 Mike Brown

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:33 AM

You might like this site: http://www.sportsclu.../NewJersey.html

 

Thanks man!


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#180 dmann422

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:38 AM

Salvador made one really glaring bad play and so it's time to kill him - I don't even think that play was really his fault either, Clowe shouldn't be there - it was going to be a nice breakout until that happened.

He's playing better than last year, that's for sure. Find it funny no one is mentioning Gelinas being turned inside out by Clarkson, but that's probably because it isn't even noteworthy - someone turns Gelinas inside out every game these days.

also gelinas was fortunate Cory bailed him out there, Salvador wasn't. I honestly didn't even notice gelinas was benched for 10 minutes straight after that play.
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