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#21 mouse

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:38 PM

IMO Langs time isn't easy to capture. The great moments (most of the time, especially '03 and ZZPops, in a big way after Marty got hurt) were really great, but the last year or so was really bad, made worse because he was the captain. In the end, I can't ignore either. He was one of my favorite Devils for a long time, but he'll never be one of my all time favorites again. I still wish him the best, and I'm grateful for all he did right.


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#22 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:44 PM

It doesn't seem likely that it will ever happen, but I would like to see a "Ring of Fire" someday (many have suggested this), for memorable Devils.  Guys like MacLean (the player), Langs, Pandolfo, Madden, Richer, Muller, Rafalski, Brylin.  Clearly none of those guys will ever see their numbers up in the rafters with 4, 3, 27, 30 and 26, but it'd still be cool to see them get their due, in a way that people my age can take our kids to see some exhibits and tell them about guys that were also an important part of the Devils' past.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 15 January 2014 - 03:45 PM.

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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#23 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:45 PM

 

 

 

 

I remember that too, the 2010 playoff sleepwalk, what seemed like general unhappiness near the end, and him invoking his no-trade that summer.  The latter I don't hold against him...I've always felt that if GMs deep-down don't want players to invoke their no-trades, they shouldn't offer them in the first place.  I know GMs often get so desperate to sign someone that they often throw in the no-trade to make the deal happen, but guess what?  If that decision comes back to haunt you, it's not the player's fault...it's on the GM. 

 

I agree on the no-trade. I'm not a fan of them. A GM willing to give one out probably wouldn't trade a player that means that much to them without asking the player first anyway. They tend to just screw the next GM that inherits the contract. Of course, if he was that unhappy, I don't know why he would refuse to leave. Maybe the team Lou had lined up wasn't somewhere he wanted to go? We'll never know.


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#24 devilsrule33

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

I agree on the no-trade. I'm not a fan of them. A GM willing to give one out probably wouldn't trade a player that means that much to them without asking the player first anyway. They tend to just screw the next GM that inherits the contract. Of course, if he was that unhappy, I don't know why he would refuse to leave. Maybe the team Lou had lined up wasn't somewhere he wanted to go? We'll never know.

 

I think Lemaire retired right after the season, so Jamie thought he could have a fresh start with a new head coach. 


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#25 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

It doesn't seem likely that it will ever happen, but I would like to see a "Ring of Fire" someday (many have suggested this), for memorable Devils.  Guys like MacLean (the player), Langs, Pandolfo, Madden, Richer, Muller, Rafalski, Brylin.  Clearly none of those guys will ever see their numbers up in the rafters with 4, 3, 27, 30 and 26, but it'd still be cool to see them get their due, in a way that people my age can take our kids to see some exhibits and tell them about guys that were also an important part of the Devils' past.   

 

It really would be nice to have a little area in the arena for that, with some photos or plaques.


I think Lemaire retired right after the season, so Jamie thought he could have a fresh start with a new head coach. 

 

Good call, you're right, he did retire. That definitely would be a big reason for him to stay.


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#26 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:55 PM

Good call, you're right, he did retire. That definitely would be a big reason for him to stay.

 

Does make one wonder how Lou liked hearing "no" though, regardless of whether Jamie was justified or not (he was...it was his right)...I don't think Lou hears "no" very often. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#27 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:14 PM

Does make one wonder how Lou liked hearing "no" though, regardless of whether Jamie was justified or not (he was...it was his right)...I don't think Lou hears "no" very often. 

 

No, I'm sure he doesn't. Also, supposedly Langenbrunner took it as a personal insult that he was supposed to be the captain of a team that didn't want him. Lou's reasoning was that he wanted to break up the veteran group (Langs, White, Rolston, etc), which probably also didn't sit well with Jamie or the other vets.

 

It definitely makes that terrible beginning of 2010-11 make sense.


Edited by Devil Dan 56, 15 January 2014 - 04:14 PM.

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#28 sundstrom

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 05:30 PM

Did it really end that ugly? He wanted out and hated Lemaire.  But so did most of the players. It was a bad coach/captain relationship. He asked for a trade. sh!t does happen, but not sure if there is any hostilities between Lou and Langenbrunner. If there is...then maybe it did end ugly. I do remember that right after he was traded, he hosted the entire team for the Super Bowl party and many Devils have spoken glowingly about him since then. Whatever happened, it didn't bother his teammates.
 
I doubt it ended any worse than when Pandolfo was scratched in the playoffs by text message day of game and told to dress with the rookies in the practice locker room. He was bought out during the off-season.
 
Moving on...loved Jamie as a Devil. Incredible 2003 playoffs -- 2 goals in game 7 against Ottawa. Part of an excellent line with Zajac and Parise for multiple years. Lot of awesome moments.


He refused to waive his NTC when Lou tried to trade him before the 10/11 debacle season. That was the beginning of then end. He fractured the room into praise/white/langs power group. And yes, he thought he was bigger than lemaire. He was a real good player here for a while but when Lou painted himself into a corner cap wise and decided to get rid of langenbrunner a year early, Jamie was pissed
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#29 Mike Brown

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:43 PM

Good ol ZZPops seems like a distant memory, but good career for him. Happy Retirement Langenbrunner!

 

We have a different version of ZZPops now.  ;)


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#30 njd3b1ink

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 10:27 PM

Really hated the way his time with us ended, but he was one of my favorite Devils before that. Still got a Langenbrunner jersey in the closet. Devils dont win the cup in 03 without him. Happy Retirement Jamie


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#31 mouse

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 10:56 PM

I think Lemaire retired right after the season, so Jamie thought he could have a fresh start with a new head coach. 

But he expected too much with Johnny Mac too, imo. That locker room was a disaster. Not just Langs, but there was a reason Lou wanted to break up the vets on that team.

 

I don't want this to turn into a Langs bash fest (or a fight over him either), so I'll leave it at that. Much as I've had issues with him (and unlike some other guys, I think I was right to have issues), he was one of my favorite Devils for a long time for good reason, and much as I don't love him the way I used to, i still have huge respect for the guy, and wish him success and happiness in the future.


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You don't turn this around in a couple shifts. Its going to take a little time, but I know the guys will come back. Because I can see it. -- Jacques Lemaire

 

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#32 95Crash

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:13 AM

Wow, I just happened to Google Jamie's name a few days ago to see whether or not he had already retired. I had been thinking back to the last Olympics in which the Devils had significant representation on the U.S. hockey team with Jamie as captain and Zach as co-captain.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, Jamie came in that trade with Dallas that saw Randy McKay and Jason Arnott leave New Jersey so I was bummed at first -- McKay was my all-time favorite Devil. But I would come to greatly appreciate having Jamie on the team and thought he was a good captain till the last year or so. No hard feelings here.

 

On a personal note, I used to go to the same chiropractor as him, LOL. Also, during the 2004-05 lockout, Jamie made an appearance at a few local Shop-Rites sponsored by Premio sausages. He gave out free autographs to anyone who asked and even posed for a photo with me. I still have one of the giant promotional posters of Jamie hoisting the Stanley Cup in 2003 that Shop-Rite had hanging up on the wall for that event. I don't know how often that happens anymore -- players making appearances and giving out autographs and posing for photos for free. I thought it was cool.


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#33 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:25 AM

People remember him for the 03 cup run, I do too. But I have a few other Langenbrunner memories I want to share:

2006- "2 on 1 maybe a 3 on one... Langenbrunner moves on innnnnnn.... SCAAAAAAAARRRRS. Streak alive, Atlantic division champions and an epic comeback to boot.

2006-2007-- last win ever for the Devils at CAA- Double overtime goal on a sick forehand backhand shot. That was my first year of season tickets, I was in section 217 row 1 which if you remember was almost like a mini "box" of sorts, I jumped so high that I kicked the railing in front of me and freaked my dad out. I will always remember that feeling of circling through the seemingly endless parking garage honking my dad's horn to "let's go devils". Ah- back when a 2nd round loss was a horribly disappointing team.

-te next season, 2007 and first season at the Rock. I remember him being injured and coming back for the Rangers game. If I remember, it was a loss- but I distinctly remember him scoring in that game and thinking how badly I wanted him to be captain. It happened soon after that, I think. I mght be off by a season.

I loved the guy, I have a Cap'n Langs authentic jersey and I still wear it to games. I wish he was on the cup-contending team the year after he left, I think he would have fit in somewhere and helped out somehow. He was an amazingly nice guy, laughed hysterically when I called him Captain America shortly before the Olympics. He epitomized a hard-working Devil and I'll miss seeing him play.
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#34 Mike Brown

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:04 AM

I was actually very upset we traded Arnie and McKay for him and Nieuwendyk back in 2002.  Boy was I glad I was eating crow after watching him 2003.  Langs stint with the Devils lasted longer than I could have expected.  He was a warrior for this team.  Miss ya Langs!


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#35 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:07 AM

Something that hasn't been brought up was what a terrific value his contract was...5 years, $2.8 million per.  He played in 81+ games in the first four years of that deal, and overall in those four years played in 308 games (missed a total of 20), scored 84 goals, had 147 assists (231 points), and was a key contributor on the Devils' top line...actually, when you think about it, ZZPop was about as cost-effective as it gets.

 

Clearly Year 5 didn't work out nearly as well as Years 1-4, but anytime you get production that exceeds the value of the deal over most of its term, you've got to be thrilled with the return.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 16 January 2014 - 07:07 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#36 LucifersDog

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:32 AM

Best wishes Langs, thanks for the memories.


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#37 dmitri

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 08:03 AM

Langs = Clutch.


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#38 Pepperkorn

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 08:55 AM

Did it really end that ugly? He wanted out and hated Lemaire.  But so did most of the players. It was a bad coach/captain relationship. He asked for a trade. sh!t does happen, but not sure if there is any hostilities between Lou and Langenbrunner. If there is...then maybe it did end ugly. I do remember that right after he was traded, he hosted the entire team for the Super Bowl party and many Devils have spoken glowingly about him since then. Whatever happened, it didn't bother his teammates.

 

I doubt it ended any worse than when Pandolfo was scratched in the playoffs by text message day of game and told to dress with the rookies in the practice locker room. He was bought out during the off-season.

 

Moving on...loved Jamie as a Devil. Incredible 2003 playoffs -- 2 goals in game 7 against Ottawa. Part of an excellent line with Zajac and Parise for multiple years. Lot of awesome moments. 

Yes it ended that badly.

 

It's not up to a player - Captain or no - to editorialize and foster ill-will regardless of how he personally feels about a proven coach.  He handled it FOR ABSOLUTE sh!t! There is no white washing or making it all acceptable.  It was not, and it ended how it had to, and in my opinion, it was he who set the tone for the past crap years.  The Devils are completely disengaged from a winning mindset in no small part to Langenbrunner's really misguided final seasons here pissing and moaning and being part of the problem NEVER the solution.

 

Oh -- and he dammwell effected his teammates. :angry: Without Jamie the Pandolfo thing doesn't happen.  Lanegenbrunner assisted in destroying professional communication with team management.  His unbalanced - unbalacable - voice destroyed communication.  In the end that's managements responsibility for giving him that role -- and now management gives that role to those I will politely refer to as easy to communicate with.  Which is OBVIOUSLY equally as damaging - perhaps a bit more?

 

However, before he felt the need to overstep his role, he was a pleasure to have as part of the team and did a great job.  Few people can step back once they let their proverbial cat out of the bag.  I understood and understand but that doesn't make it hunky-dory in hind sight.


Edited by Pepperkorn, 16 January 2014 - 09:01 AM.

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#39 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 09:02 AM

It was really only his last season PK (I guess you can include his indifferent play in the playoff series against the Flyers if you want).  And the '11-'12 team didn't seem to be terribly affected by Langs. 

 

I don't tie anything that happened last season or this season (which is still sorting itself out) to Langenbrunner.  You could make a more compelling case tying a chunk of that to Kovy (having to be dragged back here last season, bailing on his contract 11 days into UFA), if inclined to go that route. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#40 Pepperkorn

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 09:20 AM

AND I DO!!!!  And I tie Kovy MAKING THAT CHOICE back to fvckING LANGENBRUNNER!!!

 

 

:rant:

 

HOW CAN YOU SAY THE ENTIRE MACLEAN THING ISN"T ON JAMIE?!?!???!?!??!

 

AHHHHHHH!!!!!  Lemaire doesn't retire without that fvcknut COMPLETELY messing with the team psyche!

 

WHY DO YOU ALL THINK LEMAIRE RETIRED!??????

 

 

Dear lawrd -- I posted before I finished the thread and saw where we all tried to take it.... no.

 

Jamie.  It's all Lou, allowing the Jamie thing to spin completely out of control.  Do you not see how this sort of thing fvcks with the very foundation of a system like Lou's?  Trust is HUGE.  Jamie betrayed the trust Lou gave him, in the worst most damaging way possible.  He turned it on it's head and said: because you're making these decisions (which we know were actually on the right track), we can no longer trust you.  TRUST WAS DESTROYED BY LANGENBRUNNER AND UNTIL EVERYONE IS GONE FROM THOSE DAYS, IT WILL ALWAYS BE WEAK.  THIS is what I always write about - this is LOSERVILLE.  This is that intangible LOSER thing I keep writing about.

 

Yes - the team has to shake it off -- people have to shake the lessons history has given them off.  Lou is very conservative and hence we have some really slow shaking off.  It's why I'm glad Parise is gone.  Although if he had stayed it would have meant the Langenbrunner legacy was gone actually. Pretty much only Parise had that power to rid the team of that and keep them winners get them back to mental confidence.  But it's done.  The team had to be taken down to bare bones square one and that's where we are.

 

fine whatever.  I may be over-stating to a point - but if you do not understand the string of actions then you can't understand why the team is where it is -- what it is coming out of and why it is.  It's a waste of a valuable lesson.  Hmeh - but you know -- people waste history continually.  I'm not goign to let it die a quiet re-written death though  :evil:


Edited by Pepperkorn, 16 January 2014 - 09:28 AM.

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