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#181 Triumph

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:24 PM

[quote name="Triumph" post="1239933" timestamp="1390175084"]

You have not made one substantive point. You've just mentioned the standings, as if being ranked 12th out of 15 when the other teams are ridiculously bunched up ahead of NJ is meaningful.


What additional point are you looking for exactly? Sorry there are no shootouts on this forum.

We stand where we stand. You keep parroting like a broken record about how we are most definitely a playoff team but offer absolutely zero points yourself as to how what we have done to date is going to translate. We all can play the well if this changes and that changes we will then make it. I don't want to hear excuses about shootouts either.

 

I haven't said anywhere that the Devils are definitely a playoff team.  It's very possible they will miss the playoffs - possibly even more likely than not - though largely due to shootout losses and not being good enough in other areas to make up for it.  But they are a playoff quality team.  They have an elite goalie and solid defense with enough offense to carry them through.  They're unfortunately not getting any help from their depth forwards, but they have gotten a lot of help from their defense this year.  They are without question a better team than Washington or Toronto, and I also think they are better than Philadelphia.


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#182 dmann422

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:26 PM

Where is all this Merrill hate coming from? Do people not realize how good he has been as a first year pro? Its hard to compare to Paul Martin since he got to play with Niedermayer but I believe he is every bit as good a rookie.

Merrill has been very good, I don't understand what they are watching... and I believe will probably wind up the best of our current d prospects (though I've never seen severson play)

By the look of it most here who aren't high on Merrill play are the same ones who think gelinas needs to play more (Not to knock gelinas but it hasn't really been close). Gelinas comes up and contributes offensively, Merrill comes up and doesn't but plays solid defense. Maybe that has something to do with it? Idk, but I'm glad Pete seems to think otherwise.
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#183 maxpower

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:33 PM

He has 4 points and his - is out of line with everyone that is currently playing.   Including Gelinas.   I know people hate +/-, but when someone is out of line with the group (and the Devils are more or less an E team give or take a goal here and there)... it's trying to tell you something.    The best thing about his game is that he doesn't take minor penalties, unlike Zids' 23, so yeah, Zids is a + with a grain of salt, but still, his game has been pretty ordinary and it's a rush job that is no longer necessary.

 

Boucher is a sillier rush-job, obviously, since no one expected him to be up here, but he's just kind of "there".


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#184 Triumph

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:35 PM

He has 4 points and his - is out of line with everyone that is currently playing.   Including Gelinas.   I know people hate +/-, but when someone is out of line with the group (and the Devils are more or less an E team give or take a goal here and there)... it's trying to tell you something.    The best thing about his game is that he doesn't take minor penalties, unlike Zids' 23, so yeah, Zids is a + with a grain of salt, but still, his game has been pretty ordinary and it's a rush job that is no longer necessary.

 

Boucher is a sillier rush-job, obviously, since no one expected him to be up here, but he's just kind of "there".

 

Hahahah +/-. Markjackson.jpg.

 

The idea of rush jobs - you do realize that elite NHLers by and large don't even play in the AHL, right?  And those that do tend to spend little time there?


Edited by Triumph, 19 January 2014 - 07:36 PM.

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#185 maxpower

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:39 PM

Hahahah +/-. Markjackson.jpg.

 

The idea of rush jobs - you do realize that elite NHLers by and large don't even play in the AHL, right?  And those that do tend to spend little time there?

 

Who's responsible for his huge - that no other defenseman has, then?   You're like a judas to stats when it's convenient to you.   He's greener than goose sh!t and looked like a forward back playing D on the first goal last night.   

 

BTW, he's kinda not an elite NHLer yet and it would be a stretch at this point to say he will be in the future, since the Devils haven't produced an elite defenseman post-lockout.


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#186 Triumph

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

Who's responsible for his huge - that no other defenseman has, then?   You're like a judas to stats when it's convenient to you.   He's greener than goose sh!t and looked like a forward back playing D on the first goal last night.   

 

BTW, he's kinda not an elite NHLer yet and it would be a stretch at this point to say he will be in the future, since the Devils haven't produced an elite defenseman post-lockout.

 

+/- is an awful stat.  It's the worst.  Defensemen don't control shooting percentage.  They don't control save percentage.  These things are part and parcel of hockey microstats dogma.  Merrill is even in shots on goal when he's on the ice.  It isn't his fault that the team shoots 5% when he is out there, other than maybe his own shots.  Is it possible that there are players who are not of NHL quality who would affect their goalie's save percentage?  Sure, but that's not where Merrill is really cratering - it's the fact that NJ isn't scoring when he's on the ice.  Which again, doesn't have much to do with him.

 

Was Paul Martin an elite NHLer?  I mean, this could be even dumber than what you said in the first paragraph.  Why would the fact that NJ hasn't drafted and developed an elite NHLer in a convenient timeframe mean much?  Judge Merrill on his own merits - he's going to be very good.


Edited by Triumph, 19 January 2014 - 07:45 PM.

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#187 maxpower

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:49 PM

+/- is an awful stat.  It's the worst.  Defensemen don't control shooting percentage.  They don't control save percentage.  These things are part and parcel of hockey microstats dogma.  Merrill is even in shots on goal when he's on the ice.  It isn't his fault that the team shoots 5% when he is out there, other than maybe his own shots.  Is it possible that there are players who are not of NHL quality who would affect their goalie's save percentage?  Sure, but that's not where Merrill is really cratering - it's the fact that NJ isn't scoring when he's on the ice.  Which again, doesn't have much to do with him.

 

Was Paul Martin an elite NHLer?  I mean, this could be even dumber than what you said in the first paragraph.  Why would the fact that NJ hasn't drafted and developed an elite NHLer in a convenient timeframe mean much?  Judge Merrill on his own merits - he's going to be very good.

 

No, Paul Martin is not and never was an elite NHLer.

 

Is Marek Zidlicky an elite NHLer?

 

His goals on for/again splits are worse than Harrolds, yeah, some of it can be chalked up to bad luck, but he's not making anything happen either, there's really no reason for him to be up here holding up an older prospect's roster spot.   The whole thing is inside out.

 

I know you're never wrong, but you're wrong.   He's been a pro for 5 months counting his ATO, it's a rush job and it's silly.


Edited by maxpower, 19 January 2014 - 07:49 PM.

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#188 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:49 PM

Did hockeysfuture creep to njdevs. The quality of posting here is dismal. 


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#189 maxpower

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:52 PM

Did hockeysfuture creep to njdevs. The quality of posting here is dismal. 

 

Says the guy who knows every player in the CHL somehow, but still has the time to analyze NHL hockey as well.   


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#190 Triumph

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:58 PM

No, Paul Martin is not and never was an elite NHLer.

 

Martin was a top defender.  Probably still is.  Whether or not he's 'elite' - whatever, I don't care about that designation, all I know is that he was quite good when he was with New Jersey, and certainly one of the top 40 defenders in the league, if not top 30.

 

 

Is Marek Zidlicky an elite NHLer?

 

In his prime, probably.

 

 

 

His goals on for/again splits are worse than Harrolds, yeah, some of it can be chalked up to bad luck, but he's not making anything happen either, there's really no reason for him to be up here holding up an older prospect's roster spot.   The whole thing is inside out.

 

Again, you don't know what you're talking about.  First off, Merrill is older than Larsson.  I mean, you don't even know the ages of the people you are talking about.  So that's hilarious.  Then, in addition, I bet this prospect switch has to do with AHL playing time during the Olympics - Merrill will have his turn in the AHL and they'll end up with all the guys playing.  Lastly, for defensemen, goals are lucky events sandwiched inside shots.  If Merrill were getting beaten shots-wise, I'd agree with you, but he isn't.  He makes some solid outlet passes and good defensive reads.

 

 

I know you're never wrong, but you're wrong.   He's been a pro for 5 months counting his ATO, it's a rush job and it's silly.

 

Just like Paul Martin, who was rushed and totally ruined by the Devils.  Travis Zajac, ruined.  And so on and so on.


Edited by Triumph, 19 January 2014 - 08:01 PM.

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#191 devlman

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:06 PM

Where is all this Merrill hate coming from? Do people not realize how good he has been as a first year pro? Its hard to compare to Paul Martin since he got to play with Niedermayer but I believe he is every bit as good a rookie.

 

Here's the thing: As a first year pro, he has done a good job. He certainly looks like he will be a great defenseman for us down the road. However, he cannot handle the big minute, big situation positions that he is being placed right now. Thats the problem. He is being rushed when he didnt play a great deal in college, and played a handful of games in the AHL. Thats all the experience this guy has. We have a hundred different NHL-level defensemen we can use ahead of Merrill. It is not imperative he play 20:00 mins a night when he continues to make mistakes. He falls down on the ice more than Clarkson. Let the guy develop, and let our defense improve with another option inserted in there.


He has 4 points and his - is out of line with everyone that is currently playing.   Including Gelinas.   I know people hate +/-, but when someone is out of line with the group (and the Devils are more or less an E team give or take a goal here and there)... it's trying to tell you something.    The best thing about his game is that he doesn't take minor penalties, unlike Zids' 23, so yeah, Zids is a + with a grain of salt, but still, his game has been pretty ordinary and it's a rush job that is no longer necessary.

 

Boucher is a sillier rush-job, obviously, since no one expected him to be up here, but he's just kind of "there".

 

Agreed


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#192 dmann422

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:15 AM

Did hockeysfuture creep to njdevs. The quality of posting here is dismal.

unfortunately when things aren't going too well with the team it brings out the crazies... Just ignore them.
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#193 coldply123

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:56 AM

unfortunately when things aren't going too well with the team it brings out the crazies... Just ignore them.


There are crazies on both sides. We have stat crazies on this board, we have deluded Lou fanboys on this board, we have fans who I think don't watch the games actually (ZGF) and we have spiteful negative nancies like myself. Stop acting like there is some sort of hierarchy on this board and who is better at opinion and analysis. I have seen some drunken like ideas and posts from posters on this forum who like to think they are godlike and should tell other fans how to act or be in terms of what they think or how they root.
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#194 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 08:07 AM

was away for 3 days... glad to see you guys are still fighting even when im not around lol

 

also glad to see we still sucks at SO... sigh...


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#195 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 08:50 AM

was away for 3 days... glad to see you guys are still fighting even when im not around lol

 

also glad to see we still sucks at SO... sigh...

 

Sometimes frustrations just boil over.  I think it's exasperated by the fact the Devils are often not a terribly pretty product to watch. 

 

I've pretty much boiled it all down to this:  Devils somehow need to come up with 41 points in their next 32 games.  They do that, I think (hope, really) that will be enough to get them into the playoffs.  They don't necessarily need to "win" a ridiculous amount of games to do it (17-8-7 will get it done, and the Devils have at least shown the ability to get some charity points).  It basically means they can't have any extended losing/pointless streaks, and it also means they're going to have to go on a winning streak (think 4+ games) or two.  Yes, they haven't shown they can pull off the latter...yet (and to do that will almost certainly require the Devils to do the unthinkable...win a shootout!)  But the worse of the two goalies has also started more games to this point.  They've also faced some tough teams and have played more six road games than home.  It will NOT be easy...Devils to this point have a .510 point%.  They will have to pull off a .641 point% the rest of the way.  That's a significant jump, and there's probably no rental that will be available in a deal that will lead to such an increase.  It's going to have to come from within.

 

So here's what hopefully happens (otherwise Devils ain't getting in):

 

Cory starts most of the remaining games (say 70% or thereabouts) and plays very well in most of them.  Think GAA in the 1.60 range (he's at 1.91 right now, so basically he'd have to find a way to allow one less goal per three GP)

Some of the forward offensive no-shows (like Zajac) come to life, or at least a few of them dare to get hot at the same time.

Hope the home/away imbalance that will favor the Devils for the rest of the season actually means something (for what it's worth, the Devils have a .590 point% at home and a .446 point% on the road).

Hope the "easier" sched (and we know there's no such thing as truly "easy" games for Devils) also actually means something. 

 

It's all based on a lot of ifs and a lot of hope, which probably means it won't come to fruition.  But at least there's some reasons to hope. 


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#196 EdgeControl

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 08:51 AM

Some here have proclaimed "merrill" and pre ordained him so their spin will be he can do no wrong.  well, I share in their enthusiasm, but do not hide the few warts

 

kid is a solid elusive skater in his end, he's already aproaching greene in escape moves in traffic. but he has had some rookie moments. he has been tentitive in certain defensive situations, and used bad positioning, AND he's also fallen quit a few times.  Anyone who watched objectively saw him fall down in pheniox and get caught behind the net on the wrong side of his man in denver.  he's a ROOKIE those things will happen!  but he's getting good NHL minutes, and learning. kids going to be good, but dont label people haters because we point out a few mistakes. 

 

to be honest if a duchene or evander kane or grabner were coming down the wing, one on one full speed, the one defenseman not named greene, Id want back there would be mark fayne!  but I can see that changing over this season


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#197 DJ Eco

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:23 AM

I haven't bothered to read the past few pages of Merrill conversation, but I will say that he played his best game in Montreal last week and probably looked like our best defenseman. And then he had a pretty bad game in Phoenix.

 

Overall, during his entire stint here, his average performance lies somewhere around or just above the midpoint of those two: usually pretty solid with the occasional mistake.

 

Is DeBoer overusing him or using him in the wrong situations? Probably. But I usually feel safer when he's on the ice than when Salvador is. The +/- is not telling the whole story.


Edited by DJ Eco, 20 January 2014 - 09:23 AM.

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