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Negative or Positive Contract Value - You Decide


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#41 njd3b1ink

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:36 PM

It's time we move on without Patty.  He'll always be the first up when talking about the glory years, but $5.5 is ridiculous.  He's always hurt or invisible.  With the occasional 3point game.  Keep him for about $2.5.

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#42 Sneax

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:39 PM

Sheesh, I'm still sh!t scared that we don't have a guy that can match patty's roll with the team, there is no way we should be giving up on him. He is so important to this team.


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#43 2ELIAS6

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:43 PM

i cant even believe that someone would down talk elias like that.. he plays a super important role on this team and he adds to everyone elses success with that.. im happy we have him and if we didnt we would be in even more trouble with half the roster that we have here
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#44 mouse

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:45 PM

never said either was overpaid. Its kind of hard now to value a contract cause some guys have lower cap hit with the front loaded deals and some who signed after the new CBA have way higher cap hit like Getzlaf or wtv.

 

All im saying is that we can try to convince ourself all day that Zajac defensive play is so out of this world and sugarcoat it that he's worth a top spot. Truth is he's not a true #1 center, which we all knew. If we somehow land a true #1 center at some point he'd be a perfect #2 center

I was responding to people who said he was overpaid, not you in that regard.


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#45 njdevsftw

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:04 PM

Zajacs contract is ridiculous.


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#46 Mike Brown

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:23 PM

Zajacs contract is ridiculous.

 

It's actually fair.  Expect similar players like him to get similar deals in the future.


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#47 coldply123

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:47 PM

Negative value contracts are Brodeur, Volchenkov, Salvador, and Clowe.

Neutral are Henrique, Schneider, Brunner, and Zidlicky, Zubrus, Zajac

 

Positive are Ryder, Jagr, Greene

 

The Elias deal has the potential to be a negative value contract the next few years if you look at it solely without the context of what Elias did in prior years and the fact he's a lifelong/legendary Devil.  Zajac's deal, due to subpar offensive consistency/production at times, teeters on a negative/neutral tilt.  However, it will have a few years where it's teetering on a positive/neutral tilt.  I love having Zajac's defensive acumen, minutes, faceoff ability, so to me I'd lean more positive, but he's right now being paid quite well for not enough production offensively, but that will even itself out in a few years in a long-term contract.


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#48 dmann422

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:05 PM

Zajacs contract is ridiculous.

thanks for that deep insight it really adds to the conversation.
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#49 Triumph

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:44 PM

Negative value contracts are Brodeur, Volchenkov, Salvador, and Clowe.

Neutral are Henrique, Schneider, Brunner, and Zidlicky, Zubrus, Zajac

 

Positive are Ryder, Jagr, Greene

 

The Elias deal has the potential to be a negative value contract the next few years if you look at it solely without the context of what Elias did in prior years and the fact he's a lifelong/legendary Devil.  Zajac's deal, due to subpar offensive consistency/production at times, teeters on a negative/neutral tilt.  However, it will have a few years where it's teetering on a positive/neutral tilt.  I love having Zajac's defensive acumen, minutes, faceoff ability, so to me I'd lean more positive, but he's right now being paid quite well for not enough production offensively, but that will even itself out in a few years in a long-term contract.

 

Neutral is Schneider?  Guy signed for 4.25M, has an additional year on the contract, is an elite goalie and that's neutral?  Steve Mason just signed Cory Schneider's contract.  Lundqvist makes twice as much starting next year.


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#50 Devilsfan118

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:56 PM

Neutral is Schneider?  Guy signed for 4.25M, has an additional year on the contract, is an elite goalie and that's neutral?  Steve Mason just signed Cory Schneider's contract.  Lundqvist makes twice as much starting next year.

 

Not to derail the thread, but what's the general consensus on how much it'll take to get Cory here long term?

8 year, 7?  Shorter term, higher cap hit?

Personally I'm hoping a nice 6-7 year, 6.5-7m cap hit works..but I think that's a little too optimistic.  


Edited by Devilsfan118, 22 January 2014 - 08:56 PM.

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#51 Daniel

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:58 PM

Neutral is Schneider? Guy signed for 4.25M, has an additional year on the contract, is an elite goalie and that's neutral? Steve Mason just signed Cory Schneider's contract. Lundqvist makes twice as much starting next year.


I wouldn't call it neutral, but the big issue is that he's only signed for one more year, although I'm not really worried about losing him for nothing.

In any event, the whole exercise is kind of academic. Starting next year, this will not be a cap team, and we're not in the high priced free agent market anymore. There aren't really any contracts that are preventing the Devils from sowing something they otherwise would want to.


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#52 njdevsftw

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 06:01 AM

thanks for that deep insight it really adds to the conversation.

 

I'm so sorry. What I ment to say was: "Zajacs contract is a negative."  Hope that helps you understand the contents of my post.


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#53 dmann422

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 08:54 AM

I'm so sorry. What I ment to say was: "Zajacs contract is a negative." Hope that helps you understand the contents of my post.

thanks for the clarification yes it does help.
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#54 LucifersDog

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:33 AM

I'm so sorry. What I ment to say was: "Zajacs contract is a negative."  Hope that helps you understand the contents of my post.

 

I think it is ridiculous that I understood that you meant negative


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#55 dmann422

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:40 AM

I think it is ridiculous that I understood that you meant negative

Andy greene's contract is ridiculous. What do you think I mean by that?

After there were 2 dozen detailed posts prior to his discussing zajac's contract, I'm sorry if such a statement with no supporting information or opinion could be misunderstood.
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#56 GoArmySports

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 11:20 AM

Not to derail the thread, but what's the general consensus on how much it'll take to get Cory here long term?

8 year, 7?  Shorter term, higher cap hit?

Personally I'm hoping a nice 6-7 year, 6.5-7m cap hit works..but I think that's a little too optimistic.  

 

 

I wonder if offering Cory the same deal that Zajac would get it done.

 

I highly doubt the Devils offer him 8 years because even Lundqvist couldn't get that length of a contract. The only way I see him getting a max contract in length is if he threatens to leave the team for UFA.


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#57 2ELIAS6

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 12:07 PM

I wonder if offering Cory the same deal that Zajac would get it done.

I highly doubt the Devils offer him 8 years because even Lundqvist couldn't get that length of a contract. The only way I see him getting a max contract in length is if he threatens to leave the team for UFA.

to be honest would you really want to be locked up with anyone for 8 years... i dont care who it is thats just too long of a time for comfort for a goalie

Edited by 2ELIAS6, 23 January 2014 - 12:07 PM.

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#58 dmann422

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

to be honest would you really want to be locked up with anyone for 8 years... i dont care who it is thats just too long of a time for comfort for a goalie

it's true there are only a few players in the league that under ideal conditions you would give 8 years, but the system allows for players to leverage their position and force the team's hand.

Let's just be happy the league was able to put a stop to the 13 year deals that cost us parise.
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#59 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

to be honest would you really want to be locked up with anyone for 8 years... i dont care who it is thats just too long of a time for comfort for a goalie

 

None of those uber-long term deals are ideal, but Schneider could probably get that somewhere...especially if he starts 55+ games next season and puts up rate numbers similar to what he's done previously.  And it all goes back to how Lou feels about Kinkaid and Wedge...if he thought either of those guys could be the Devils #1 goalie of the future, he's not giving up his first-rounder for Cory, so Lou kind of has to pony up on this one.  The only real question mark right now re:  Schneider is can he be a year-in, year-out 60+ game starter?  He's probably going to top out in the upper 40s this season, and before this season, has never started more than 30 games.  We've seen Marty start 70+ so often, we almost assume anyone can handle a 60+ yearly workload without a problem.  I'm guessing Cory could handle it, but we haven't actually seen him have to do it yet.   

 

At any rate, would 7-8 years at near max or at max per season be "positive" value for Cory?  I think the answers to that would probably be pretty varied.


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#60 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:25 PM

None of those uber-long term deals are ideal, but Schneider could probably get that somewhere...especially if he starts 55+ games next season and puts up rate numbers similar to what he's done previously.  And it all goes back to how Lou feels about Kinkaid and Wedge...if he thought either of those guys could be the Devils #1 goalie of the future, he's not giving up his first-rounder for Cory, so Lou kind of has to pony up on this one.  The only real question mark right now re:  Schneider is can he be a year-in, year-out 60+ game starter?  He's probably going to top out in the upper 40s this season, and before this season, has never started more than 30 games.  We've seen Marty start 70+ so often, we almost assume anyone can handle a 60+ yearly workload without a problem.  I'm guessing Cory could handle it, but we haven't actually seen him have to do it yet.   

 

At any rate, would 7-8 years at near max or at max per season be "positive" value for Cory?  I think the answers to that would probably be pretty varied.

 

I'm not too worried about the workload Cory can handle, only because he managed 36, 40, and 60 in 3 years the AHL (with 10 NHL games mixed in). It seems like mentally and physically, he can do 55-60 a year, maybe more in years that he doesn't have a solid backup. After Zach, Clarkson, Kovy, etc, I think we will all be a little uneasy until Schneider has officially put pen to paper and signed, but I also think Lou knows the importance of locking him up and that money won't be too much of an issue.


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