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GDT: NJ Devils vs. NY Rangers - 12:30pm on NBC - Stadium Series Editio


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#481 CarpathianForest

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:30 PM

Besides pulling random names for effect, you could do a lot worse as a goaltender then those players.

 

This is a "chicken or the egg" argument at it's core. Is Brodeur's success an indictment of his individual talent or is it more a direct result of the players and system he played with/under? I'm sure the day he retires, this will be brought up in retrospect of his career.

 

This has already been a hot button topic for the last 10 years.


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#482 jagknife

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:32 PM

They can't ignore this anymore Tri.  Marty had a .901 save% last season and is down to .899 this season.  The sample is pretty large.  The 50-game surge I've repeatedly brought up ended almost 18 months ago.  They have no right to be foolish about this.  There's a guy who is playing light-years better right now, who's in his prime.  I couldn't agree more, at least 22 games for Schneider going forward.  If the Devils blow this, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Marty has no more bones coming to him (at least, he shouldn't).

 

I'm with Tri on this one, I honestly have zero faith in management standing up to Marty's ego/legacy/whatever you want to call it. The fact he started after his comments a week or so ago [when Schneider was on the roll and he said he was upset about not playing] reinforces my belief. There has to come a point in time, as you said CR, where they need to think of the team and not the individual, but time after time, in my jaded point of view, they allow him [Brodeur] to pretty much call the shots.


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#483 Triumph

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:38 PM

They can't ignore this anymore Tri.  Marty had a .901 save% last season and is down to .899 this season.  The sample is pretty large.  The 50-game surge I've repeatedly brought up ended almost 18 months ago.  They have no right to be foolish about this.  There's a guy who is playing light-years better right now, who's in his prime.  I couldn't agree more, at least 22 games for Schneider going forward.  If the Devils blow this, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Marty has no more bones coming to him (at least, he shouldn't).

 

The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.


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#484 devilsrule33

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:40 PM

The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.

 

My main concern. The coach doesn't care for stats. What exactly is he looking at? I have 0 faith at all that if Cory has a bad outing against St Louis, he isn't sitting on the bench the next game.


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#485 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:41 PM

The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.

 

Scary thought.  I'm hoping Lou and PDB are smarter than that.  Even if PDB doesn't believe in save%, he should believe in Cory being better.  If he can't see that, he shouldn't be coaching this team anymore.


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#486 Triumph

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:43 PM

Besides pulling random names for effect, you could do a lot worse as a goaltender then those players.

 

This is a "chicken or the egg" argument at it's core. Is Brodeur's success an indictment of his individual talent or is it more a direct result of the players and system he played with/under? I'm sure the day he retires, this will be brought up in retrospect of his career.

 

Brodeur had a lot of great teams and a lot of very solid years.  He is not the greatest goalie of all time but he is clearly in the top 10, below Roy and Hasek in his era but certainly better than people like Curtis Joseph.

 

The Devils have an excellent defense now.  That's what you're disregarding in your previous post.


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#487 sundstrom

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:12 PM

I'm gonna cherry pick from the last couple pages of this thread.

 

. Keeping Schneider is not a slam dunk. Schneider is going to sign where he thinks gives him the best chance to win and make the most money?  The Islanders could throw the kitchen sink at him...  There are a lot of teams out there that are going to be in the mix to get him.  Trading the pick for 2 years of him was not a good trade at all.  Locking him up long-term is the key to that trade.  Lou's best chance to do that would have been last summer.  Now, we've already frustrated him with playing time and playing behind a marginal team.

 

Lou cannot even offer an extension until this summer. The CBA doesn't allow for it. I would like to think that Lou discusses extension with Schneider this offseason. I would be concerned if he doesn't have one when the season starts but if he doesn't, none of the public quotes you hear will indicate anything definitive one way or another. "when you have time, you use it." "i'm always open to an extension if it's right for me and the team", etc.

 

 

Positives to take for me:

- the defensive breakdowns that we saw constantly are rare for us, so I'm not worried about it.
- the power play continues to produce. It's a shame we couldn't draw a few more penalties late because I think we could have made it interesting, but if our power play continues to convert at this rate we will be in good shape.
- josefson looked halfway decent on the jägr line, better than Boucher did. I hope to god Pete keeps him there for Tuesday
- broduer letting in 6 goals will further cement Cory as the starter. I hope and think he will get at least 20 of the final 29 games, probably more than that.
 

 

i agree with these positives (along with actually being at the game which was really fun - although i wouldn't want to consistently watch games from that kind of vantage point - the best seat for this game is worse than the worst seat at the rock).

 

Not attacking Marty, but goalies need to save you some games, and there was a stretch in the second where Marty could have saved at least SOME shots, which makes it a different game. He gave up 3 goals in a row, a couple of which went through his legs. A couple times, Marty was slow coming across the goal mouth, and never got his feet set, which meant he couldn't adjust to deflections. If the shots were unpredictable, I'd get it, but everyone knew who was going to be shooting, and the ice was slow enough that the passes weren't exactly crisp. I don't want to beat on Marty here, but he was off, and IMO he was off because he's nowhere near the athlete he used to be.

 

this is essentially how i feel about marty for the last 3 years when he has games like these. i said today, and i've said for years - when marty loses, he is usually a big reason for it. this year, when schneider loses, he is rarely a big reason for it. this year, when marty wins, he usually is not one of the top 3 reasons why. when schneider does, he is almost always the best or 2nd best player on the ice.

 

Devils are 10-5-5 in their last 20 GP.  They were 5-1-2 in their last 8 before this mess.  Today sucked something fierce, but it is just one loss.  

 

This is what I'm hoping will continue - if it does, the devils are 80% to make the playoffs. even if this game is in MSG, we feel differently. it's our once in a lifetime event and marty was as bad as could possibly be.

 

The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.

 

i have learned to not necessarily believe everything this coach says when brodeur is involved. in fact, i will give PDB a ton of credit for how he has handled the most massive ego he's likely ever had to deal with.


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#488 devilsrule33

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:22 PM

i have learned to not necessarily believe everything this coach says when brodeur is involved. in fact, i will give PDB a ton of credit for how he has handled the most massive ego he's likely ever had to deal with.

 

It started well in 2011-2012. Brodeur was awful and he didn't give  sh!t who he was. He even pulled him in a tie game in the playoffs.

 

But this year his actions are backing up his words. I think Deboer has handled things well with his comments, but not with how he has handled the games. Marty has played way too much. If he goes back to Brodeur in the next few games, I'll have no faith that he will ever do the right thing with Brodeur/Cory.

 

He simply can't see/or doesn't want to see how poorly Brodeur has been and how easy the goalie situation is. The name Brodeur, that for some reason was not too big for him in that first year, is now too big of a name to burry him like he should.


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#489 TheRedStorm

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:25 PM

 

 

 

i have learned to not necessarily believe everything this coach says when brodeur is involved. in fact, i will give PDB a ton of credit for how he has handled the most massive ego he's likely ever had to deal with.

 

With no thanks to his boss. As soon as Lou started with that "1A" nonsense he made Pete's life that much more difficult. Pete's own GM took away any leverage he might have thought he had with one sentence.


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#490 losdiablos103

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:34 PM

Awful 2nd and 3rd period. The game looked so so promising after 1.  It was a huge disappointment..  We have a surplus of D men and they all blow. Volchenkov, who we and I especially chastised after last season, has been our best D. 

 

Marty gave up a few softies, but no way was this all on him.  I personally, would have pulled Marty after 4 or even 5-3.  We're not making the playoffs, guys.. It hurts to come to that realization, but we're not good enough.  We need a goal scorer. We don't have one. 


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#491 2ELIAS6

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:07 PM

Awful 2nd and 3rd period. The game looked so so promising after 1.  It was a huge disappointment..  We have a surplus of D men and they all blow. Volchenkov, who we and I especially chastised after last season, has been our best D. 
 
Marty gave up a few softies, but no way was this all on him.  I personally, would have pulled Marty after 4 or even 5-3.  We're not making the playoffs, guys.. It hurts to come to that realization, but we're not good enough.  We need a goal scorer. We don't have one.

volchenkov our best D? .. i dont know if you saw it but one of the goals on brodeur tonight was his fault he decided to push one of the rangers clean into brodeur knocking him over and then poof goal
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#492 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:21 PM

Yeah, that's a lame excuse. He really just sounds like he's making excuses with that one. Everyone played on the same ice.

 

They asked him what he thought of the ice. 


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#493 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:29 PM

Scary thought.  I'm hoping Lou and PDB are smarter than that.  Even if PDB doesn't believe in save%, he should believe in Cory being better.  If he can't see that, he shouldn't be coaching this team anymore.

 

The turn already began before this. Cory started 6 of 8 for the stretch before today including both halves of a back to back. It slowly became Cory's job, and today solidified it. Marty needs to make the right call this summer, or Lou has to for him. 


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#494 Mike Brown

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:32 PM

I'm hoping we win 4 of the 6 games remaining before the Olympics.


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#495 Triumph

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:44 PM

The turn already began before this. Cory started 6 of 8 for the stretch before today including both halves of a back to back. It slowly became Cory's job, and today solidified it. Marty needs to make the right call this summer, or Lou has to for him. 

 

This is still only 62 games over a full season,, and Brodeur started today.  The split needs to be starker than that.  Brodeur should get 1 game before the season stops - Nashville on the road.  That's it.  I can guarantee he will get 2 games coming up before the Olympic break.


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#496 MadDog2020

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:48 PM

They asked him what he thought of the ice.

Yeah I saw that, but was too lazy to correct myself lol.


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#497 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:11 AM

The turn already began before this. Cory started 6 of 8 for the stretch before today including both halves of a back to back. It slowly became Cory's job, and today solidified it. Marty needs to make the right call this summer, or Lou has to for him. 

 

Yes and no.  The turn has started partly because Cory has been SO lights-out lately that he hasn't given PDB any choice.  What happens if Cory has a meh game and gives up four goals?  (This happens to everyone eventually.)  I would hope PDB doesn't go running to Marty under such circumstances, but sadly I can absolutely see him doing that.  And I'll be beyond infuriated if he does.   

 

 

This is still only 62 games over a full season,, and Brodeur started today.  The split needs to be starker than that.  Brodeur should get 1 game before the season stops - Nashville on the road.  That's it.  I can guarantee he will get 2 games coming up before the Olympic break.

 

Agree, but I get the feeling Marty gets the Oilers too. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 27 January 2014 - 07:11 AM.

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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#498 Marshall

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:21 AM

 

mc79hockey @mc79hockey

Just did a quickie estimate of what the Devils goalie split has cost them in standings points vs. 60/22 split pace.

 

The answer I come up with is 2 or 3 points. Which would have them in a playoff spot now. Woof.

 

No surprise but still sad.


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#499 SterioDesign

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:55 AM

still funny that Lou and Debo who preaching the "logo at the front and not the name on the back thing" are going out of their way with Brodeur so often though, cause the only reason he was in net in some games this year was because of his name plate.

 

Again i didnt mind that he was in net yesterday but im talking about the many times he was in net and that it should have been Schneider


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#500 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:01 AM

still funny that Lou and Debo who preaching the "logo at the front and not the name on the back thing" are going out of their way with Brodeur so often though, cause the only reason he was in net in some games this year was because of his name plate.

 

Again i didnt mind that he was in net yesterday but im talking about the many times he was in net and that it should have been Schneider

 

He definitely got a longer leash, no question, and sometimes unfairly so.  I'm willing to give PDB a pass on that (this was going to be a difficult transition), as long as it's now Schneider who gets the longer leash...as in, if Cory has a meh game, he gets the next one to bounce back.  Or if Marty plays well in a spot start, he doesn't automatically get the next one.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!




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