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#181 dmann422

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:03 AM

Holy crap he had one bad shift.  You wanna crucify him for one bad shift?  And it's not as if Gelinas has been bad defensively his entire time here.  He was very good defensively when he was paired with Larsson.  I think we should trade Zidlicky and call up Larsson.
 
BTW, I'm not complaining about Salvador.  I actually don't think he's as bad as people in here are saying he is.

sorry I should have clarified I didn't mean you specifically complaining about Salvador but it's obvious he gets heat while he's miles better than gelinas but gelinas gets a pass.

Gelinas had 3 bad shifts- 2 even strength, then possibly the worst pp I've seen a defensemen play, then he literally got benched the remainder of the game, until we were desperate to prevent a shootout. He's now a .5ppg defenseman, and that would be great if he at least played passable defense, but the pp has actually been working without him (and in some cases in spite of him)

To the person who said trade gelinas- I don't know I did go that far, he is valuable but won't return what larsson or merril would, but I would trade him for the right price and I would trade him long before the other two.

and to the person who said offensive defensemen take longer to develop- lol I've literally heard this about every type of player, centers, defensemen, goalies... Who doesn't take longer to develop? If he needs to develop he needs to do it in the ahl, because he is a liablitliy right now.
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#182 EdgeControl

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:04 AM

if zajac could finish this is a 4-1 or 4-2 game, gio was ok up on the line but he too cant finish

sal and atrain -2 each nuf said, but at least anton is hitting anything that moves

zid was cool today and I thought fayne was arguably the best D man on the ice

gelly is still having troubles seeing the plays unfold and painting himself in a corner

brunner is back to flying up and down. ride cory ride


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#183 Mike Brown

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:29 AM

sorry I should have clarified I didn't mean you specifically complaining about Salvador but it's obvious he gets heat while he's miles better than gelinas but gelinas gets a pass.

Gelinas had 3 bad shifts- 2 even strength, then possibly the worst pp I've seen a defensemen play, then he literally got benched the remainder of the game, until we were desperate to prevent a shootout. He's now a .5ppg defenseman, and that would be great if he at least played passable defense, but the pp has actually been working without him (and in some cases in spite of him)

To the person who said trade gelinas- I don't know I did go that far, he is valuable but won't return what larsson or merril would, but I would trade him for the right price and I would trade him long before the other two.

and to the person who said offensive defensemen take longer to develop- lol I've literally heard this about every type of player, centers, defensemen, goalies... Who doesn't take longer to develop? If he needs to develop he needs to do it in the ahl, because he is a liablitliy right now.

 

Except he's not a liability considering he's producing.  And I don't want people to compare him to Kurtis Foster either.  Look, if you look at his Corsi numbers from earlier on in the season, you'd see that the dude was at one time very solid defensively.  He's has maybe a 15-20 game stretch where he's been bad defensively.  That's nothing.  Let the kid play through his defensive woes.  We NEED Gelinas on this team, so you need to let him work through it.  He's far too valuable of a player to have him in the AHL just because of a bad couple of months.

 

The PP has been good because of Gelinas, not despite Gelinas.  Having him on it makes it that much deeper.  Merrill has all the offensive tools to be good on the PP as well.  But he's not shown the offensive ability yet at this level.  We have the 7th best powerplay percentage in the league, and Gelinas is the biggest factor as to why imo.


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#184 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:40 AM

Devils are 8th in PP% (20.4) and 2nd in PK% (86.9).  Amazing how not being able to win shootouts just has a way of making everything seem worse than it really is.  It doesn't FEEL like the Devils' special teams are as good as those numbers. 


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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#185 HellOnICE

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:55 AM

I would say the PP thing is maybe because we don't draw that many so we can go games without getting a PPG. 7D isn't optimum but PDB doesn't have a choice, IMO at the moment. He has to many 1-dimensional defensemen.


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#186 dmann422

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:08 AM

Except he's not a liability considering he's producing. And I don't want people to compare him to Kurtis Foster either. Look, if you look at his Corsi numbers from earlier on in the season, you'd see that the dude was at one time very solid defensively. He's has maybe a 15-20 game stretch where he's been bad defensively. That's nothing. Let the kid play through his defensive woes. We NEED Gelinas on this team, so you need to let him work through it. He's far too valuable of a player to have him in the AHL just because of a bad couple of months.

The PP has been good because of Gelinas, not despite Gelinas. Having him on it makes it that much deeper. Merrill has all the offensive tools to be good on the PP as well. But he's not shown the offensive ability yet at this level. We have the 7th best powerplay percentage in the league, and Gelinas is the biggest factor as to why imo.

ok, I disagree the guy only has 8 even strength points in 44 games. I don't think that production makes up for his defensive lapses. He is a power play specialist now, as evidenced by him only getting 3 mins last night. And when is that bad in the pp he has no use whatsoever.

I'm fine keeping gelinas as the 7th d but people complaining about Larsson not being up should realize gelinas is the prime candidate to be sent down if he does come up.

And if we didn't play 7 d last night nd gelinas was in instead Of Merrill we would have lost, because either gelinas would have been coned for a goal or Salvador would have been played even more because gelinas was benched.

Edited by dmann422, 31 January 2014 - 09:15 AM.

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#187 NJDevils1214

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:09 AM

Devils played well last night other than Sal waving his ass in Corey's face on the goal that tied it. Also, oh my those Dallas Stars ice girls/cheer leaders. I am pretty sure Mike Modano married one, I can see why.


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#188 gardenstatepkwy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:52 AM

Devils played well last night other than Sal waving his ass in Corey's face on the goal that tied it. Also, oh my those Dallas Stars ice girls/cheer leaders. I am pretty sure Mike Modano married one, I can see why.

 

 Mo! Favorite player ever. Not sure why but always liked him,.  Maybe it was seeing the flapping of his jersey while he was streaking down the wing as a youngster. 

 

Not sure he married a Stars cheerleader but know he was married to a singer and they have since divorced.  Heres a photo.  Way to go Mike!

Willa_Ford_and_Mike_Modano.jpg

 

I think hes now hitched to a pro golfer. Could be wrong though. Think it's Joe Micheletti's daughter.


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#189 devilsrule33

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:53 AM

Devils are 8th in PP% (20.4) and 2nd in PK% (86.9).  Amazing how not being able to win shootouts just has a way of making everything seem worse than it really is.  It doesn't FEEL like the Devils' special teams are as good as those numbers. 

 

That PP number is mindblowing. Nothing about it stands out as a 20% PP. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems very hit or miss. 60% of the PPs, they can't even set up once.


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#190 Sneax

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:55 AM

That PP number is mindblowing. Nothing about it stands out as a 20% PP. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems very hit or miss. 60% of the PPs, they can't even set up once.

 

Really? Our PP has been great lately, the last 15 games or so I have felt if we go on the PP we have a good chance of scoring. We have 2 units that are pretty capable of scoring, I think that's why it seems worse than it is. For a long while now we have had 1 unit that can score with consistency, now we have 2 and which increases our overall PP conversion chances.

 

 

I'd also say setting up is just our problem, we move the puck around really well once we actually do get set up.

 

Gelinas and Zidy both are incredibly dangerous from the point on the PP, Brunner and Ryder can also fire off some one timers. When we ran the PP with kovy, he was basically the only guy that was going to consistently put one timers in net. We have like 4 guys now.

 

 

 

 

 

Also super unrelated. I saw Clowe stat line yesterday, wtf? He's a -8. I knew he wasn't the best defensively, but really? The guy has 10+ points since coming back to be a -8, he must be on ice for a large percentage of our goals against.


Edited by Sneax, 31 January 2014 - 09:58 AM.

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#191 EdgeControl

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:03 AM

Also super unrelated. I saw Clowe stat line yesterday, wtf? He's a -8. I knew he wasn't the best defensively, but really? The guy has 10+ points since coming back to be a -8, he must be on ice for a large percentage of our goals against.

he had a very rough start to his devils stint, culminating in a -4 game at Chicago.  since then he's been in + territory. he played very well in both ends last night, and has been , with the occasional meltdown in the D-zone


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#192 SMantzas

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:05 AM

Why is no one talking Jon Merrill? This kid is a stud

Edited by SMantzas, 31 January 2014 - 10:05 AM.

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#193 95Crash

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:10 AM

Someone's lonely now that nj.com was shut down. 

 

I used to post there a lot back in 2002, '03, and '04. There were a lot of great posters there. The '03 Cup run was especially fun there. Then one day it seemed like everyone left. I wondered to myself: Hey, where did everyone go? Then a couple of years later I found this messageboard, saw all the familiar names, and realized: Oh, that's where everyone went! LOL


Edited by 95Crash, 31 January 2014 - 10:11 AM.

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#194 Daniel

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:14 AM

Why is no one talking Jon Merrill? This kid is a stud

 

Probably because he doesn't have the offensive numbers, at least not yet.


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#195 devilsrule33

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:23 AM

Some of the numbers for Cory and Marty have finally evened out:

 

Cory:  1670:25 minutes, 698 shots faced

Marty:  1665:08 minutes, 692 shots faced 

 

As we all know, outside of the so-so W-L-OT/SO loss records for both, that's where the similarites end, as far as season numbers go.

 

Believe it or not, as much as we've been getting on Marty lately for what has been a brutal January, he actually had a nice run of pretty good puckstopping before that.  In a 19-game stretch from 10/27 to 12/31, the team went 12-6-1 in his starts, and he put up a .917 save%, with three shutouts.  I have to admit, I find it kind of hard to believe too.  From 11/27 to 12/10, he had four consecutive rough starts (.826 save%), but in the other 15 games, he was actually pretty solid.  I bring this up, because when I analyze this stretch, I can almost understand why PDB and Marty both feel like he gives the Devils a reasonable chance to win.  Not saying I agree with it (I don't), but I can see a little better where they're coming from.

 

All of the above being said, I want to see Cory start ALL of the remaining games before the break, back-to-backs be damned.  Cory has a .949 save% with a 1.32 GAA in his last 11 appearances, and the Devils are 6-2-2 in his last 10 starts.  He hasn't given up more than 2 goals in any of those starts.  PDB talks about riding hot hands from time to time...it's hard to be much hotter than Cory is right now, and even if Marty suddenly found a game close to the level of the stretch I pointed out, it doesn't touch the kind of run that Cory is currently on.  And this team needs points, as many as it can get.  The Devils can't fvck around with trying to "right" Marty, or throwing him yet another bone, or worrying about a long layoff hurting his game if he doesn't get one start (the layoff's going to be long anyway...is one start for Marty going to make any real difference?).  Cory is going to have to go through the same thing, re:  a layoff.  Right now, you worry about getting yourself into playoff position, and if that happens, then maybe you can put Marty in a game here and there, but right now, until Cory says he's tired or there's a clear dropoff in his play, I think PDB should play him every single game, end of story.       

 

I understand what you are saying, but the good is only going to be when we cherry pick stats. The overall play is what is is (the save percentage numbers for the last 4 years are terrible), and the overall numbers being so bad with the good stretch show just how atrocious he has been for a nice portion of the season....The rest of this post is not in reply to you.

 

You don't need to cherry pick stats with great goalies, certainly not Cory. The thing is we could have been doing the same thing in 2011-2012 with Marty and Hedberg. Hedberg was the way way way better goalie for the first 50+ games of the season. He actually finished the season with much better numbers. But going into January, it wasn't even close.  After a 2-1 win on January 11th, he only played 6 more games the rest of the year. Pete just rode Marty who started to play well, back-to-backs be damned. Maybe Hedberg would have done well, (he actually only allowed 2 goals in his last 4 starts), but Pete went with the goalie he felt gave them the best chance to win. This decision should be easier than that. Unlike Marty in 2011-2012, Cory has been the way better goalie than Marty. Just ride him and not worry abut upsetting Brodeur. That's the way you get to the playoffs. 

 

And really, I think there is more in play than the playoffs. The future of the franchise is in play too. You need a happy Cory Schneider.  This guy has been arguably the best goalie in the NHL over the last 3 seasons. He just came from a really tough situation in Vancouver, and now seems to be dumped into a worse one here. You want to show him he is the undisputed goalie of the future and try to lock him up this off-season. Any amount of unfair games rewarded to Brodeur is just going to leave a bad taste in his mouth. Then you have the issue of trading a 9th overall pick for him. The Devils don't have a draft pick this season. Their 2011 pick is in the minors due to a logjam on defense. They traded away their 2010 pick for a player that is no longer on the team. Their 2009 top pick is scratched for the likes of Gionta/Carter/Benier/Janssen/Sislo, etc. He gets yanked back and forth for no reason. The 2008 1st round pick is probably not an NHL player and will be going to Europe in the off-season. 

 

This franchise is fvcked without locking up Cory Schneider. Playing Cory in all the games is really the smart thing to do, including b2bs. Is a .925-928 goalie going to be much worse on the back half than a near 42-year-old goalie with a sub .900 save percentage?

 

One last thing and I might say this a few more times. I don't want to see Brodeur playing much again, clearly. But this has nothing to do with not appreciating his success or appreciating the person. It's just time to move on and have the "legend of Brodeur" distraction gone. I have heard people thinking this is a Favre-Rodgers mess, but it's actually a lot worse since Rodgers was not a known commodity and Favre was actually still a very good QB coming off a great season. Cory already is the Aaron Rodgers we know today, and Brodeur is playing like Blaine Gabbert

 

...Anyway, I'd be very happy if Brodeur got traded to any team, somehow got in nets, took the starting job, and had another incredible chapter (even if it was a team like the Flyers). I wouldn't even take issue if he threw shots at Devils fans, players, management, etc for saying he was finished. I'd be very happy for Brodeur. I just don't want to see him get that opportunity in New Jersey, again.


Edited by devilsrule33, 31 January 2014 - 10:34 AM.

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#196 HellOnICE

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:27 AM

Perfect post dr33.


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#197 SMantzas

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:27 AM

Probably because he doesn't have the offensive numbers, at least not yet.

That's understandable but he has been so solid. The puck goes the right way when he's on the ice and he has one of the best outlet passes on the team
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#198 dmann422

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:31 AM

Why is no one talking Jon Merrill? This kid is a stud

Merrill has been very good, can't understand how some don't see hat and certainly can't understand how he was in the press box for a bit.
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#199 95Crash

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:35 AM

Perfect post dr33.

 

I was with him all the way till that last paragraph. :D


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#200 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:49 AM

I'm with you dr33 on your post.  The reason for the cherry-picking is more to show why I think PDB and Marty still think there's something left (like I said, I don't agree)...if someone actually said to PDB, "How can you start Marty over Cory in [pick the game]?!", you'd probably get a response along the lines of, "Well, he did have a slow start, but for two months, he was playing very well.  He's fighting it right now, but I think he'll fight through it.  He always has." 

 

Would I agree with PDB if he said that?  Absolutely not.  But the raw numbers in a vacuum back him up a little bit.   

 

Marty probably thinks those 19 games represent a sample of pretty good NHL play, and he sees his last five games as just another slump that he just has to work through with playing time.  Because the last four years, to varying degrees, he's always managed to do that (moreso in 2010-11 and 2011-12 than last season).  But not only are the Devils not in any position to ever let him work through it again, there's absolutely no need to.  That why I pointed out Cory's numbers...it's one thing for all of us to say "Hey, Cory's playing better."  The numbers show HOW much better, and these guys are in different universes right now. 

 

Anyway, I agree 100% in that there's simply no reason to give Marty any more opportunities here, for the reason I stated in my post...because even if Marty was playing to whatever his top end now is, it will never match what Cory's doing, and probably won't even come close.   


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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