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#201 NJDevs4978

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:59 AM

Devils are 8th in PP% (20.4) and 2nd in PK% (86.9). Amazing how not being able to win shootouts just has a way of making everything seem worse than it really is. It doesn't FEEL like the Devils' special teams are as good as those numbers.


That's because they're 7-11 on the PP in two games - the Blues game a couple weeks ago and the Bruin game earlier in the season. The overall ranking would actually be a lot worse without those two games.
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#202 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:05 AM

That's because they're 7-11 on the PP in two games - the Blues game a couple weeks ago and the Bruin game earlier in the season. The overall ranking would actually be a lot worse without those two games.

 

They'd be at 17.2% without those two games, which is more what their PP "feels" like.  But you could probably find similar "fattening up" games with other teams too.


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#203 Marshall

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:14 AM

That's because they're 7-11 on the PP in two games - the Blues game a couple weeks ago and the Bruin game earlier in the season. The overall ranking would actually be a lot worse without those two games.

 

You don't think other teams also have those types of games that helps their %? The cherrypicking that goes on here...


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#204 Triumph

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:20 AM

I imagine other teams don't have 7-11 in two games - that's extreme as extremes go, but yeah, NJ's 5 on 4 shooting percentage is 4th is the league.  Everyone around here has been yelling about how the Devils can't finish, but that really is not true this year - they just can't start.  They don't generate enough scoring chances.


Edited by Triumph, 31 January 2014 - 11:23 AM.

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#205 LucifersDog

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

I understand what you are saying, but the good is only going to be when we cherry pick stats. The overall play is what is is (the save percentage numbers for the last 4 years are terrible), and the overall numbers being so bad with the good stretch show just how atrocious he has been for a nice portion of the season....The rest of this post is not in reply to you.
 
You don't need to cherry pick stats with great goalies, certainly not Cory. The thing is we could have been doing the same thing in 2011-2012 with Marty and Hedberg. Hedberg was the way way way better goalie for the first 50+ games of the season. He actually finished the season with much better numbers. But going into January, it wasn't even close.  After a 2-1 win on January 11th, he only played 6 more games the rest of the year. Pete just rode Marty who started to play well, back-to-backs be damned. Maybe Hedberg would have done well, (he actually only allowed 2 goals in his last 4 starts), but Pete went with the goalie he felt gave them the best chance to win. This decision should be easier than that. Unlike Marty in 2011-2012, Cory has been the way better goalie than Marty. Just ride him and not worry abut upsetting Brodeur. That's the way you get to the playoffs. 
 
And really, I think there is more in play than the playoffs. The future of the franchise is in play too. You need a happy Cory Schneider.  This guy has been arguably the best goalie in the NHL over the last 3 seasons. He just came from a really tough situation in Vancouver, and now seems to be dumped into a worse one here. You want to show him he is the undisputed goalie of the future and try to lock him up this off-season. Any amount of unfair games rewarded to Brodeur is just going to leave a bad taste in his mouth. Then you have the issue of trading a 9th overall pick for him. The Devils don't have a draft pick this season. Their 2011 pick is in the minors due to a logjam on defense. They traded away their 2010 pick for a player that is no longer on the team. Their 2009 top pick is scratched for the likes of Gionta/Carter/Benier/Janssen/Sislo, etc. He gets yanked back and forth for no reason. The 2008 1st round pick is probably not an NHL player and will be going to Europe in the off-season. 
 
This franchise is fvcked without locking up Cory Schneider. Playing Cory in all the games is really the smart thing to do, including b2bs. Is a .925-928 goalie going to be much worse on the back half than a near 42-year-old goalie with a sub .900 save percentage?
 
One last thing and I might say this a few more times. I don't want to see Brodeur playing much again, clearly. But this has nothing to do with not appreciating his success or appreciating the person. It's just time to move on and have the "legend of Brodeur" distraction gone. I have heard people thinking this is a Favre-Rodgers mess, but it's actually a lot worse since Rodgers was not a known commodity and Favre was actually still a very good QB coming off a great season. Cory already is the Aaron Rodgers we know today, and Brodeur is playing like Blaine Gabbert
 
...Anyway, I'd be very happy if Brodeur got traded to any team, somehow got in nets, took the starting job, and had another incredible chapter (even if it was a team like the Flyers). I wouldn't even take issue if he threw shots at Devils fans, players, management, etc for saying he was finished. I'd be very happy for Brodeur. I just don't want to see him get that opportunity in New Jersey, again.


Thank you that sums up my feelings.
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#206 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:34 AM

You don't think other teams also have those types of games that helps their %? The cherrypicking that goes on here...

 

Yeah, it's cherry-picking, but it does show why the Devils' PP doesn't feel as good as the % suggests.  Devils have played 55 games so far.  They've scored 33 PPG.  Take out the two games and it's 26 goals in 53 games.   

 

If you look up Boston's game-by-game PP numbers (I chose them randomly because their % was pretty close to the Devils), if you take out a 3-3 and a 3-5 night, their PP% drops from 19.9 to 16.8.  It wouldn't surprise me if Bruins fans didn't think their power play was as good as the % suggests, but let's face it, if your PP is operating around 16-17% most of the time, it only takes two or three big games to push it up to around 20%. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 31 January 2014 - 11:38 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#207 NJDevs4978

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:37 AM

That's fair enough CR, my only point was that they 'did' have two extraordinarily effective games. And there are other games where they have no idea how to set up. On the flip side though the PP has been a legit top ten PP since Gelinas got here.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#208 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:43 AM

That's fair enough CR, my only point was that they 'did' have two extraordinarily effective games. And there are other games where they have no idea how to set up. On the flip side though the PP has been a legit top ten PP since Gelinas got here.

 

I think if you asked most Devils fans, "Where do you think their power play is ranked, and what % you think it is?", many would reply middle-of-the-pack, and somewhere around 17-18%.  I think more than a few would be surprised at the actual figures.  Part of it is the two games that helped fatten up the numbers, and the other part is what you and dr33 have pointed out...no one really thinks of the Devils' power play as being consistently dangerous...like you say, there's power plays where they do just about nothing...not even a hint of setting up. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 31 January 2014 - 11:43 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#209 Marshall

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:43 AM

What perplexes me the most about this PP is that they generate very few shots, their zone entries are terrible, they take forever to get set up...but when they do they're absolutely lethal. 


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#210 SMantzas

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:50 AM

What perplexes me the most about this PP is that they generate very few shots, their zone entries are terrible, they take forever to get set up...but when they do they're absolutely lethal.

Zone entries have gotten better with the additions of Elias and Brunner. Like Tri said, they're been getting some good shooting luck on the PP.
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#211 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:51 AM

What perplexes me the most about this PP is that they generate very few shots, their zone entries are terrible, they take forever to get set up...but when they do they're absolutely lethal. 

 

They're 16-for-62 in their last 21 GP (25.8%).  That's Pittsburgh-for-the-season good.  Even if we want to take out the 3-for-4 burst against the Blues, the % is still a terrific 22.4.  And I have to admit it...I never would've guessed their PP was succeeding at this rate. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#212 Marshall

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

They're 25th in the league in S/60 and second in shooting percentage with 15.9% (STL 17.3) so...yeah. A lot of it.


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#213 Triumph

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:05 PM

They're 16-for-62 in their last 21 GP (25.8%).  That's Pittsburgh-for-the-season good.  Even if we want to take out the 3-for-4 burst against the Blues, the % is still a terrific 22.4.  And I have to admit it...I never would've guessed their PP was succeeding at this rate. 

 

The difference between 15% and 22% isn't easy to catch with the eye.  The shots per have been trending up.  To me what it suggests - and this may be confirmation bias - is that NJ has skilled players who don't have the speed they once did.  So the puck and the players don't move as fast as we'd like, and the zone entries are often a mess, but they still have the skill to put it in the right places.


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#214 EdgeControl

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:19 PM

They're 25th in the league in S/60 and second in shooting percentage with 15.9% (STL 17.3) so...yeah. A lot of it.

who has a team 15% shooting %


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#215 Mike Brown

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:49 PM

That PP number is mindblowing. Nothing about it stands out as a 20% PP. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems very hit or miss. 60% of the PPs, they can't even set up once.

 

Every team's PP is either hit or miss.


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#216 Mike Brown

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:59 PM

ok, I disagree the guy only has 8 even strength points in 44 games. I don't think that production makes up for his defensive lapses. He is a power play specialist now, as evidenced by him only getting 3 mins last night. And when is that bad in the pp he has no use whatsoever.

I'm fine keeping gelinas as the 7th d but people complaining about Larsson not being up should realize gelinas is the prime candidate to be sent down if he does come up.

And if we didn't play 7 d last night nd gelinas was in instead Of Merrill we would have lost, because either gelinas would have been coned for a goal or Salvador would have been played even more because gelinas was benched.

 

Powerplay points count too.

 

Merrill is the better option to be sent down since he doesn't bring anything more than what we already have.  Gelinas brings something no other dman brings.

 

You can't predict the outcome based on who plays and who doesn't.  Merrill wasn't great last night either.


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#217 CarterforPresident

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:19 PM

He's been better then gelinias

Powerplay points count too.

Merrill is the better option to be sent down since he doesn't bring anything more than what we already have. Gelinas brings something no other dman brings.

You can't predict the outcome based on who plays and who doesn't. Merrill wasn't great last night either.


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#218 Mike Brown

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

He's been better then gelinias

 

Not by much.  When you add in the points Gelinas has, they're about even overall.


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#219 CarterforPresident

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:37 PM

Playing defense? No. We don't need to give up goals and gelly has been causing some in the last few games. Right now merril is better. Not even if you think that your blinded by the light sorry.

Not by much. When you add in the points Gelinas has, they're about even overall.


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#220 Mike Brown

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:39 PM

Playing defense? No. We don't need to give up goals and gelly has been causing some in the last few games. Right now merril is better. Not even if you think that your blinded by the light sorry.

 

Several people would disagree with you.


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