Jump to content

Photo

Fire DeBoer Thread


  • Please log in to reply
304 replies to this topic

#61 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,514 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:06 AM

After losing the first...I don't know?  8 games in the shootout; scoring 1 whopping goal total....start using some random guys like a Zid or Gionta...ANYONE

 

He used Zidlicky last shootout and using 'random guys' is a horrible, horrible idea.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#62 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:56 AM

Using randoms isn't the worst idea ever, as long as they're not total plugs and goalies aren't familiar with them.    I think our only SO goal this season qualifies as a random.   Yeah, he's a scoring player, but not who you'd think you'd pick


  • 0

#63 MantaRay

MantaRay

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,327 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:14 AM

I commend him for trying something different.  What is our record in Shootouts this season?


I've fired many a worker in my day, and "well, I wasnt trained" is the number one excuse they claim for their poor performance. and thats EXACTLY what it is, AN EXCUSE. the devils run one of the tightest, disciplined systems in all of hockey, hell, all of sports, your telling me pete's not communicating with them???

 

That says more about your management, than it does the workers, if this is a constant problem.


  • 0
I was wrong to ever doubt the powers of Lou Lamoriello.
IN LOU WE TRUST @Manta04


Posted Image

#64 MantaRay

MantaRay

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,327 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:17 AM

Well, thats a pretty stark indictment of our scouting/development, is it not?  Guess who oversees that?  Where is the accountability?

 

I think Lou knows this.   I don't think Stevens is ready to be a "coach".   Granted he has had a lot of injuries.  He isn't Larry Robinson.


  • 0
I was wrong to ever doubt the powers of Lou Lamoriello.
IN LOU WE TRUST @Manta04


Posted Image

#65 Marshall

Marshall

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,330 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:25 AM

I have a real problem with the aversion to development and coaching of youth I see in this thread. This might have worked when you didn't have a salary cap and when players excelling in their ELCs (and also RFA) years were less crucial to a team's success. If you are a coach in the salary cap era and you're not prepared, able or willing to work and communicate with your young players then you have put your team in a disadvantage right away. 

 

Some players need to be taught, some need tough love and a coach has to be able to provide both. I understand that this is often left to assistant coaches, but again: you have to be dynamic in the way you coach different players. It wouldn't surprise me if the second half of 2011/2012 was the first time in his career Adam Larsson faced real adversity. To say "derp derp this is a team sport, players should get in line" is asinine. You coach individuals to play to their strengths so the team can perform better. 

 

I have minor complaints (lineups, line combinations, deployment) about DeBoer but this is a major one. I don't think he and his coaching staff are very good at working with young players. 


  • 0

Winner of the 2009-10 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster
Winner of the 2011-2012 RD Avatar Award
believe2.jpg

www.numerartovertag.wordpress.com - An NHL Blog (in Swedish)


#66 NJDevs4978

NJDevs4978

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,072 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:28 AM

Using randoms isn't the worst idea ever, as long as they're not total plugs and goalies aren't familiar with them.    I think our only SO goal this season qualifies as a random.   Yeah, he's a scoring player, but not who you'd think you'd pick

 

Random guys seem to be the only ones scoring in our 'practice' shootouts lol (Cam, Volch).


  • 0
"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#67 coldply123

coldply123

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,184 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:53 AM

After losing the first...I don't know? 8 games in the shootout; scoring 1 whopping goal total....start using some random guys like a Zid or Gionta...ANYONE


Uh oh. Triumph won't like you making a valid point! The King Quack of Stats knows all!
  • 1
Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

"I'm Going With The Devils over Anaheim"-Barry Melrose

#68 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,620 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:10 AM

I have a real problem with the aversion to development and coaching of youth I see in this thread. This might have worked when you didn't have a salary cap and when players excelling in their ELCs (and also RFA) years were less crucial to a team's success. If you are a coach in the salary cap era and you're not prepared, able or willing to work and communicate with your young players then you have put your team in a disadvantage right away.

Some players need to be taught, some need tough love and a coach has to be able to provide both. I understand that this is often left to assistant coaches, but again: you have to be dynamic in the way you coach different players. It wouldn't surprise me if the second half of 2011/2012 was the first time in his career Adam Larsson faced real adversity. To say "derp derp this is a team sport, players should get in line" is asinine. You coach individuals to play to their strengths so the team can perform better.

I have minor complaints (lineups, line combinations, deployment) about DeBoer but this is a major one. I don't think he and his coaching staff are very good at working with young players.


You're presuming that because a player was drafted in the first round and/or pundits said they would be really good, means that it's just coaching that's slowing them down. It could be that Larsson, Josefson and Loktionov are not that good, or at least not as good as they were projected to be.

And with Larsson, for all those that are upset that Marty has cost the Devils points, you could basically chalk up at least two or three awful turnovers in the defensive zone to Larsson every night. Maybe that'll will be worked out in his stay in Albany or over the next couple of seasons. But please let's not try and glamorize the past and pretend there's a Nikkas Lidstrom in him trying to get out if only DeBoer was a little gentler with his psyche.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#69 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,098 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:16 AM

Larsson still is affected by the Simmonds hit. He's still afraid of contact.


  • 0

screenshot-sml-40.jpg
 


#70 Marshall

Marshall

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,330 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:22 AM

You're presuming that because a player was drafted in the first round and/or pundits said they would be really good, means that it's just coaching that's slowing them down. It could be that Larsson, Josefson and Loktionov are not that good, or at least not as good as they were projected to be.

And with Larsson, for all those that are upset that Marty has cost the Devils points, you could basically chalk up at least two or three awful turnovers in the defensive zone to Larsson every night. Maybe that'll will be worked out in his stay in Albany or over the next couple of seasons. But please let's not try and glamorize the past and pretend there's a Nikkas Lidstrom in him trying to get out if only DeBoer was a little gentler with his psyche.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Nonsense. NJ has busts and players that are not good enough. Tedenby and Urbom are in those categories, Josefson and Larsson aren't. I don't know where Loktionov is, to be honest.

 

I talked about the general philosophy of coaching and development. I don't see how you can misunderstand that. 


  • 0

Winner of the 2009-10 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster
Winner of the 2011-2012 RD Avatar Award
believe2.jpg

www.numerartovertag.wordpress.com - An NHL Blog (in Swedish)


#71 EdgeControl

EdgeControl

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,316 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:32 AM

I commend him for trying something different.  What is our record in Shootouts this season?


 

That says more about your management, than it does the workers, if this is a constant problem.

lol, Knew someone would come back with that simple retort, . never said it was a constant problem. but if you tell me you have a perfect hiring record I'll tell you your full of it

 

point still stands, the claim that these players arent being coached up is nonsense.  let lou can debo and take the reins!! I dare him!


Edited by EdgeControl, 02 February 2014 - 10:53 AM.

  • 0

#72 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,514 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:17 AM

Uh oh. Triumph won't like you making a valid point! The King Quack of Stats knows all!

 

So instead of going with players who've proven themselves, try ANYTHING else!  This is synecdochic with your larger point that ANYTHING works better than Lou and DeBoer, when we can see around the league that teams who try anything often fail at everything.

 

max:  Boucher scored a billion goals last year, this wasn't using Matt Hendricks.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#73 mfitz804

mfitz804

    Rookie Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 347 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:42 AM

Josefson and Loktionov have sucked all year. I have no problem with either of them being scratched or benched.
  • 0

#74 coldply123

coldply123

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,184 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:22 PM

So instead of going with players who've proven themselves, try ANYTHING else!  This is synecdochic with your larger point that ANYTHING works better than Lou and DeBoer, when we can see around the league that teams who try anything often fail at everything.

 

max:  Boucher scored a billion goals last year, this wasn't using Matt Hendricks.

I've never said "just anybody else" or "anything".  

 

Boy, you are rich.  I mean really.  Using big words and stats to try and crush any opposing opinion or dissatisfaction with the team.  You just enjoy being a contrarian.  I may be exceedingly negative and demanding, but I don't frankly care.  You can call me loony all you want.  The results speak for themselves and watching this team over a whole season, coaching is a major issue and has been intricately involved in the events leading to a number of losses.  There's no denial of that by others on this board.  Has Deboer been given a great hand to work with?  Heck no.  But guess what, there's a lot of other teams with bad hands who are doing better than us.  

 

We are failing in spectacular fashion on the shootouts and some of his shootout choices show little to no effort from a coaching perspective.  I was at the Blue Jackets game several weeks ago and it was clear Deboer paid no attention to the lack of familiarity.  The shootout is not as simple as people think it is (as someone who played hockey can tell you, and Jagr himself has alluded to this).  


  • 0
Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

"I'm Going With The Devils over Anaheim"-Barry Melrose

#75 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,384 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:52 PM

Larsson still is affected by the Simmonds hit. He's still afraid of contact.

 

Wasn't the big hit on Larsson by PK Subban?


  • 0

#76 MadDog2020

MadDog2020

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,986 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:55 PM

Wasn't the big hit on Larsson by PK Subban?

Yes it was.


  • 0
iq0p.pngUploaded with ImageShack.com

#77 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,514 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:10 PM

I've never said "just anybody else" or "anything".  

 

Boy, you are rich.  I mean really.  Using big words and stats to try and crush any opposing opinion or dissatisfaction with the team.  You just enjoy being a contrarian.  I may be exceedingly negative and demanding, but I don't frankly care.  You can call me loony all you want.  The results speak for themselves and watching this team over a whole season, coaching is a major issue and has been intricately involved in the events leading to a number of losses.  There's no denial of that by others on this board.  Has Deboer been given a great hand to work with?  Heck no.  But guess what, there's a lot of other teams with bad hands who are doing better than us.  

 

We are failing in spectacular fashion on the shootouts and some of his shootout choices show little to no effort from a coaching perspective.  I was at the Blue Jackets game several weeks ago and it was clear Deboer paid no attention to the lack of familiarity.  The shootout is not as simple as people think it is (as someone who played hockey can tell you, and Jagr himself has alluded to this).  

 

'Little to no effort from a coaching perspective?'  He has tried 9 different guys.  

 

I'd love to hear about these teams with less talent doing better than NJ.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#78 losdiablos103

losdiablos103

    Rookie Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 891 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:21 PM

Larsson's hit was by Subban. I was sitting right in front of it. 

 

 

But as far as DeBoer is concerned, if we don't play well or win the last 3 games before the olympic break, or give up leads like we did in Dallas and Nashville, I wouldn't be opposed to fire Pete.  

 

What about bringing Laviolette.?


  • 0
Posted Image Posted Image

#79 mouse

mouse

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:03 PM

I've never said "just anybody else" or "anything".  

 

Boy, you are rich.  I mean really.  Using big words and stats to try and crush any opposing opinion or dissatisfaction with the team.  You just enjoy being a contrarian.  I may be exceedingly negative and demanding, but I don't frankly care.  You can call me loony all you want.  The results speak for themselves and watching this team over a whole season, coaching is a major issue and has been intricately involved in the events leading to a number of losses.  There's no denial of that by others on this board.  Has Deboer been given a great hand to work with?  Heck no.  But guess what, there's a lot of other teams with bad hands who are doing better than us.  

 

We are failing in spectacular fashion on the shootouts and some of his shootout choices show little to no effort from a coaching perspective.  I was at the Blue Jackets game several weeks ago and it was clear Deboer paid no attention to the lack of familiarity.  The shootout is not as simple as people think it is (as someone who played hockey can tell you, and Jagr himself has alluded to this).  

What teams have bad hands that are doing better? The Devils lost Kovalchuk unexpectedly after planning their future  around him. While this may help long term, it left them with huge roster issues. Most experts had them finishing near last in the east. Instead, they're right in the playoff race, despite playing a tough schedule. DeBoer has done an admirable job getting new faces used to each other/his system, weathering the storm early in the season, dealing with Marty's ego, and keeping the team playing hard, even when things go badly. He has played Sal and Volch way too much, at the expense of guys like Merrill and Larsson. That's one serious shortcoming, and a ton of good things. He's far from a perfect coach, but he's better than any coach we've seen except Burns, and maybe Lemaire (though Lemaire had some terrible stretches, in addition to some great ones). I don't know that you'll find a better coach right now. 


  • 0

Sumus Legio
You don't turn this around in a couple shifts. Its going to take a little time, but I know the guys will come back. Because I can see it. -- Jacques Lemaire

 

sguq.jpg


#80 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,098 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:08 PM

Wasn't the big hit on Larsson by PK Subban?

 

For some reason I keep thinking it was Simmonds.


  • 0

screenshot-sml-40.jpg
 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users