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#101 CarpathianForest

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:38 PM

My post is tongue in cheek. Gionta is pretty useless.


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#102 thefiestygoat

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:13 AM

Josefson and Loktionov have sucked all year. I have no problem with either of them being scratched or benched.

Fair to say Loktionov was given a chance, though I wouldn't say he has sucked. Anyway I've given up on caring about him since he's gone after this year.

I'm not so sure Josefson was given a chance though nor has he sucked. He's played just 18 games this year and just 2 in the last 5 weeks. He's only averaging 10:17 a game. His most common linemates have been Janssen (44:36), Ryder (31:20), Carter (26:35), Zubrus (24:05), Jagr (23:02), and Tedenby (22:53). Essentially he's played with Janssen a lot and then a random linemate this year.

He didn't get to play until the 5th game of the year where he only got 7:48 of ice time. In that game he was one of the Devils best possession players and pretty much tied Gionta as the 5th forward used SH. His common linemates that game were Gionta and Olesz. He was only on for a Flames PPG. Then he didn't get to play until 2 more games passed. In that game he played a near season high of 12:19. He was once again one of the Devils best possession players. He played mainly against the likes of Staal, McDonagh, Richards, and Stepan. His common linemates were Zubrus and Loktionov so he was at least given some quality to work with and had 2 shots himself. Following that game he would have to sit out 4 games. He'd get into a back to back following that but this in and out and changing linemates and limited ice time would continue, minus a stretch in late November where he was actually given a few games however with more limited ice time and inconsistent linemates. I don't think he's been set up to succeed or put into a position to where he could really help the team. He's done fine in limited ice time being one of the better possession players in 10 of his 18 games so he's not hurting them out there. He could certainly replace Carter or Gionta if he was NA. It's a shame he got meaningless games in 2010-11 otherwise he'd be developing in Albany right now.


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#103 Mike Brown

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:27 AM

If Gelinas isn't back on this team soon, the Devils won't make the playoffs.


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#104 CarterforPresident

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:41 AM

Oh yeah he'll make it or break this entire team. Without gelly we're screwed!! He isn't Ovy man relax.

If Gelinas isn't back on this team soon, the Devils won't make the playoffs.


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#105 coldply123

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:38 AM

I can't really criticize Gionta this yr as he's played well in spurts but he does poorly at face offs and he's being overused by Deboer and misused at times on specials making him look worse than he is.
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#106 PWW

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:07 AM

I can't really criticize Gionta this yr as he's played well in spurts but he does poorly at face offs and he's being overused by Deboer and misused at times on specials making him look worse than he is.

 

This. I like Gionta but I can't stand seeing him out there on the PK or in OT. He's a good 4th liner and I wish DeBoer would just leave it at that. His misuse/overuse of players is what makes me hate them, I swear.


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#107 Vic Rattlehead18

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:12 AM

This thread is dumb for the sole purpose that debour wont be fired. He brought this team to the finals and it's his last year. That merits expiration of contract>firing. new coach next season.


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#108 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:33 AM

Here's my thing about DeBoer- I know I bitch about him a lot. But I actually do think he's a good hockey coach. The players have not quit on him. They play for him. I'm not completely convinced he should be fired YET, although my frustration gets the best of me after games like last night. Its his lineup decisions that are giving me grey hairs. I just don't know what he sees with some of his decisions on who to play and how much ice time they should get (Gionta and Sal come immediately to mind). And I like Gionta too, I don't mean to rip on him as much as I do- but he's nothing more than a fourth line plug, and Pete thinks he's his brother sometimes. Drives me insane. That's my conflict on Pete- good coach and I like him personally, but sh!tty with young players, and makes bone-headed line-up decisions.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement with a lot of this.  Coaches will always have blinders on when it comes to certain players that we as fans can't comprehend, and that's true in ALL sports.  I said before that I think PDB's on watch, and I feel that way mostly because of Lou more than anything else, because if he truly believes the coach is the problem, he won't hesitate to make a switch.  But yeah, players do play hard for him.  Usually the sign of a dead coach walking is when the players clearly are mailing it in.  I don't see that at all.     

 

One of the bad things re:  what happens when you're no longer an elite team, and you have actually have to claw and battle for a playoff spot, is that the instant-grat types start bitching about everything and have all the answers...it's all the coach's fault, it's all the GM's fault, everyone sucks, everyone's an idiot, etc.  Making the playoffs is never a birthright.  Some people are already talking about this team like it's already dead, and I don't get that.  For one, the schedule is finally going to even out:  16 home games, 10 road games remaining.  They've been pretty good at home:  12-7-6 (a .600 point%)...they need to do better than that, but with Schneider starting most of the games for the rest of the season, there's fair reason to think the Devils can do that. 

 

If the Devils were where the Islanders are, I could undersatnd the "we're toast" sentiment.  But they're not.  They're right there.  They may not make it, but they're far from toast.

 

And good for PDB for going with Schneider and sticking with him.  It would've been easy to let a freak bounce off Jagr's stick (where Jagr did exactly what he was supposed to...this is the equivalent of a DB in football batting down a Hail Mary pass in the end zone...only to have a receiver dive for it and somehow catch it.  Sometimes sh!t just happens) dictate that Marty should somehow get the next game, but PDB didn't do that.  Even if the Devils lose 5-0 tonight, sticking with Cory was the right call.         


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 03 February 2014 - 09:49 AM.

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#109 Daniel

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:43 AM

I'm pretty much in agreement with a lot of this.  Coaches will always have blinders on when it comes to certain players that we as fans can't comprehend, and that's true in ALL sports.  I said before that I think PDB's on watch, and I feel that way mostly because of Lou more than anything else, because if he truly believes the coach is the problem, he won't hesitate to make a switch.  But yeah, players do play hard for him.  Usually the sign of a dad coach walking is when the players clearly are mailing it in.  I don't see that at all.     

 

One of the bad things re:  what happens when you're no longer an elite team, and you have actually have to claw and battle for a playoff spot, is that the instant-grat types start bitching about everything and have all the answers...it's all the coach's fault, it's all the GM's fault, everyone sucks, everyone's an idiot, etc.  Making the playoffs is never a birthright.  Some people are already talking about this team like it's already dead, and I don't get that.  For one, the schedule is finally going to even out:  16 home games, 10 road games remaining.  They've been pretty good at home:  12-7-6 (a .600 point%)...they need to do better than that, but with Schneider starting most of the games for the rest of the season, there's fair reason to think the Devils can do that. 

 

If the Devils were where the Islanders are, I could undersatnd the "we're toast" sentiment.  But they're not.  They're right there.  They may not make it, but they're far from toast.

 

And good for PDB for going with Schneider and sticking with him.  It would've been easy to let a freak bounce off Jagr's stick (where Jagr did exactly what he was supposed to...this is the equivalent of a DB in football batting down a Hail Mary pass in the end zone...only to have a receiver dive for it and somehow catch it.  Sometimes sh!t just happens) dictate that Marty should somehow get the next game, but PDB didn't do that.  Even if the Devils lose 5-0 tonight, sticking with Cory was the right call.         

 

I think Lou probably agrees with PDB's lineup decisions, so that won't be a basis to fire him.  It was Lou that signed Salvador to the extension, and could unload him and waive Harrold if he really felt that Larsson should be in the lineup.  If Lou really wanted Josefson in the lineup he could probably find a trade partner for Gionta, or even send him to Albany (I think GIonta's on a two-way deal, correct).

 

I really think PDB will be here so long as there isn't an epic collapse and/or he loses the players, neither of which I see as particularly likely.  As of late, Lou has been looking for stability with the coaching staff.  He was hoping to get that with MacLean, but it was clear it was a disaster a few weeks into the season.  Meanwhile, PDB has gotten the Devils to overachieve, and the players respect him.  In fact, the Devils would probably be in a playoff spot now if Joe Blow were the back-up, instead of a below average goalie that the GM essentially required you to give the benefit of the doubt to at the beginning of the season.  


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#110 NJDevs26

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:00 AM

Oh yeah he'll make it or break this entire team. Without gelly we're screwed!! He isn't Ovy man relax.

 

I think it's a bit hyperbole too BUT they're 22-15-7 in games Gelinas has played and 1-6-5 in games he hasn't.


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#111 redruM

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:12 AM

Our offensive skill level is lacking, that LL fault not PDB.

 

I like PDB and the players work their asses off for him, no reason to even think about cahnging caoches IMHO


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#112 Triumph

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:28 PM

I think it's a bit hyperbole too BUT they're 22-15-7 in games Gelinas has played and 1-6-5 in games he hasn't.

 

How's their record in games that Janssen plays?  This is silly - records with/without a player are always silly.


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#113 Mike Brown

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:14 PM

I think it's a bit hyperbole too BUT they're 22-15-7 in games Gelinas has played and 1-6-5 in games he hasn't.

 

I think the better analysis is to look at the PP numbers with and without him.


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#114 Mike Brown

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:17 PM

How's their record in games that Janssen plays?  This is silly - records with/without a player are always silly.

 

I agree with your theory, but Janssen has played in only 24 games.  So I can almost guarantee you that the team's record with and without Janssen won't be that huge of a difference.


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#115 Daniel

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:22 PM

How's their record in games that Janssen plays?  This is silly - records with/without a player are always silly.

 

Using Janssen as the counterargument is silly.  The icetime he did get was negligible.  (You might as well have just said that the record isn't impacted by Josefson being a scratch every night as opposed to being in Albany).  Gelinas on the other hand plenty of icetime, including being a part of the powerplay, and would be part of the four man team in OT. 

 

Whether the Devils record is impacted by Gelinas, and for better or worse, I can't say.  But the idea that the absence of a particular player doesn't have an impact on the record is silly. 


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#116 Triumph

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:34 PM

Using Janssen as the counterargument is silly.  The icetime he did get was negligible.  (You might as well have just said that the record isn't impacted by Josefson being a scratch every night as opposed to being in Albany).  Gelinas on the other hand plenty of icetime, including being a part of the powerplay, and would be part of the four man team in OT. 

 

Whether the Devils record is impacted by Gelinas, and for better or worse, I can't say.  But the idea that the absence of a particular player doesn't have an impact on the record is silly. 

 

It doesn't because the role of luck overwhelms the presence of the player, regardless of how good he is.  Gelinas has without doubt had a positive impact on the team, but with/without records aren't the way to show that.


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#117 NJDevs4978

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:43 PM

How's their record in games that Janssen plays?  This is silly - records with/without a player are always silly.

 

12-9-3...wasn't that much different than their record on the whole.


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#118 Mike Brown

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:45 PM

It doesn't because the role of luck overwhelms the presence of the player, regardless of how good he is.  Gelinas has without doubt had a positive impact on the team, but with/without records aren't the way to show that.

 

This is what I'm trying to say regarding Gelinas.  Any negative impact he brings will not outweigh all the positive things he does.  IMO, his defensive shortcomings don't come close to being a bigger factor than his offensive production.  That's why he needs to be on this team.


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#119 coldply123

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:10 PM

Our offensive skill level is lacking, that LL fault not PDB.

I like PDB and the players work their asses off for him, no reason to even think about cahnging caoches IMHO


I don't think any hockey player ever cares about working hard for their coach. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
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#120 EdgeControl

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:29 PM

Gelanis was sent down because the mistakes were piling up, the game was getting ahead of him.  so you send him down , take some pressure off him. and bring him back up when he's ready


Edited by EdgeControl, 03 February 2014 - 02:32 PM.

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